Glock's accidental discharge in royal presence

Check out this article about Glock discharges. Here's the link: http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-gupgrade.html

Scroll about 1/3 of the way down to read about the AD a large police force had. They were so quick to blame the operator of the weapon that a armorer didn't even take the gun to the range, he walked out back, closed the slide on a loaded mag and the gun SLAMFIRED! He then went to the range, repeated the procedure and it SLAMFIRED again. Later it even went into burst fire!

My point is don't be too quick to judge when you don't have all the info. It could have been operator error or it could have been a damaged gun. Heck my new Sig Trailside last year slamfired and did some burst firing.

And just for record, I'm not bashing Glocks, I own 3.

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John
"Never argue with an idiot, they pull you down to their level and beat you with experience"
 
WaltGAII,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike H:
Whilst Glocks are by no means such an extreme example as the one above.
[/quote]

Precisely which part of that didn't you understand ?

You seem to have swallowed a dictionary that didn't include the word analogy.

Analogy n. parallelism, similarity; reasoning from parallel cases.

It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise adult individuals just don't seem to understand a straightforward posting, there's almost (I said ALMOST)a kind of closed minded Marxist like dogma at work here. This should have developed into a useful, if admittedly one sided discussion about just how far a designer should bias his gun designs on ease of operation as opposed to safe modes when the weapon is being carried, oh, and before another Alabama Woodchuck makes a post about guns only firing when the trigger is pulled, try chambering a round in a Makarov that has a dirty firing pin channel whilst holding it to your forehead and test your theory.

Mike H
 
I've owned/carried Glock handguns for over 10 years. I've fired hundreds of thousands of rounds through them and have NEVER had an accidental discharge or a negligent discharge.

The safety is between the ears.

If you put a loaded Glock in the hands of a clueless idiot, it will go off.

Keep your finger off the @#* @*($ trigger! And keep the gun in a holster that fully encloses the trigger guard.
 
Yup, we can come up with the one in a million case where a gun goes off due to a manufacturing error or damage but even when that happens, if the operator follows the basic safety rules no harm can result.

You can go through life pretty damned confident that if you that if you aren't one of these morons who sticks his finger on the trigger every time they pick up a gun, that you'll never shoot anyone by accident.

Keep your finger off the trigger!
Don't point a weapon at anything you don't wish to destroy.
Keep your gawdamned finger off the trigger.
I said, finger-trigger NO!



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Give all Glock owners one round and only one round, and they have to keep it it their blouse pocket. Barney Fife method...works for Andy in Mayberry. :D

Jim
 
Mike H has made a very valid point about ease of operation versus safe modes. Any firearm involves several compromises. Safety versus ease of use is a compromise. Even with a long, creepy trigger pull, five and a half pounds is light trigger pull (and there are some with three and a half pound pulls).

As my grandson gets older, I am having to work through several compromises of safety versus ease of use for my house gun. When he was a baby and confined to a cradle, the cocked and locked GM (or G17) on the nightstand worked fine. As he got older, it moved to the top self of the bookcase (which for now is inaccessible to him). Soon it became only the GM, and the 17 went into the safe. After a while GM went into the safe and a DA revolver took its place (it's easier to click the safety off than to pull a DA trigger). The DA revolver is now in the safe (he's probably big enough to cock it if he ever got a hold of it). It has been replaced with a Beretta 96. Now in order to make it go boom, he has to work the slide (not particularly easy), figure out how to manipuate the safety (I leave it engaged), and the work a DA trigger (far safer than a Condition One GM or G17). Eventually, there will come a time when the magazine will be in my pocket. In each step, I traded off ease of use with safety.

I am uncomfortable and will remain uncomfortable with the standard Glock trigger pull--sure it is easy to use (major selling point), but it is easy to have a accident with as well (the NY1 spring goes in all my Glocks before a round goes in the magazine). I think the Glock would be a better pistol with a heavier (and smoother) trigger and/or a manual safety like the GM or HP.

A point worth considering (or researching is that the Glock was originally designed for the Austrian military. If the Austrian military is like any military I have been associated with the Glock was DESIGNED to be carried Condition Three (chamber empty).
 
If the level of training in gun handling present in the Royal's protectors allows back to back ND's, the Windsors need to hire someone to protect them from their bodyguards. I thought these guys would all be ex-SAS or something, really "switched on." I don't even LIKE Glocks (personal reasons, preference, you don't have to like what I like either) but THE GUN ISN'T THE CARELESS ONE!

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When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; IT IS that they shall be destroyed forever...Psalms 92.7
 
The Glock is no more dangerous in condition one than a revolver. Good shooting habits breed safety with any firearm. The firing pin safety and drop safety make the gun safer than many revolvers. As was stated earlier, the ultimate safety is between the ears :)
 
The trigger pull on the Glock is very easy to release. That is the reason that when I carry my G22, I do not have a round in the chamber. The reason is that I do not trust myself, in a stress situation to bring the gun into battery safely.

That being said, I like my Glock a lot and would not get rid of it. It is a fine machine. It will fire when the trigger is depressed far enough, for whatever reason.

I normally carry a weapon with a long DA trigger pull (Astra A75) for the reason I stated above. You have to be comfortable with weapon or you should not carry it.

The main reason I don't carry the Glock is it's to big. I do have holsters that protect the trigger, but it's cold weather carry only. It's up to you to be safe. The gun was designed to fire if the trigger is pulled.

I hope this makes sense.

[This message has been edited by Mike Sullivan (edited June 17, 2000).]
 
I don't need a dictionary or any advice to properly diagnose sophomoric silliness. Kind of like being so afraid of your Glock that you carry it on an empty chamber, rendering it not much more use than a club.

Makarov??? Jestly you sure. I'd never put a p.o.s. like that in my blue-blood hands. :)
 
mississippi_rifleman & Mike H.

I like Glocks too (I want a 23/27), but feel that they aren't good for beginners either. We had this debate a while ago. There's not much lee-way for mistakes with a Glock. (I know, I know) I like a DA/SA and DAO best for beginners. I've had TWO friends mistakenly squeeze off a second shot when it wasn't intended. SA's are possibly the BEST for people who "know what the hell they're doing." There's no doubt about THAT.

Glocks are for those who know their stuff... Period
Ben

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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"

[This message has been edited by Ben (edited June 17, 2000).]
 
Couple of months ago, I bought my daughter her first pistol, a G26. I figured that if she had enough sense to get into a good private law school, then she could certainly learn to operate a Glock. If a Glock weren't pretty safe, then you couldn't train the rank and file of police officers to use them. Many l.e.o.'s experience their first handguns when they get their jobs as coppers.

So far, daughter has shown enough judgement, maturity and brains not to put her finger on the trigger, unless she's ready to fire.

I have custody of her little Glock for the next six weeks, while she's off studying in France. I'll shoot it some, just to make sure that it doesn't go off randomly, without having first had its trigger pulled.
 
Took a class once with about 35 Glocks in it.
Two days, 1000 rounds. Not one ND - of course, not one of the men in the class cut the cheese.

Until someone can come up with comparative ND figures with different guns and controlling for training, the Glock haters are blowing
noxious gases. DATA, dudes - we all have anecdotes.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WalterGAII:
I don't need a dictionary or any advice to properly diagnose sophomoric silliness. Kind of like being so afraid of your Glock that you carry it on an empty chamber, rendering it not much more use than a club.

Makarov??? Jestly you sure. I'd never put a p.o.s. like that in my blue-blood hands. :)[/quote]

Yeah right. A club with 10 hollow points in it. talk about sopomoric. I would never suggest that someone who is more comfortable carrying with an empty chamber is silly.

People have to make the decision that best suits them, and not be guided by someone elses opinion that they are 'silly'. Tough guys can do want they like, graveyards are full of them. I choose to err on the side of caution.
 
I think I'm responsible for starting this brouhaha by taking a shot at the guy who thought Glocks were dangerous.

Look guys, all guns are dangerous but no gun is unreasonably so. The reason for Glocks popularity is that they are SIMPLE. They have a long trigger pull for safety - as well as a firing pin disconnect on that same trigger. It is a safe gun unless you are negligent - the same can be said of any modern handgun.
Still, if someone chooses to carry one with an empty chamber, so what? You can rack a slide in 1/4 of a second, its just no big deal. How often do you think your first intimation of a violent encounter is going to start with your left arm being disabled?

Personally, I dislike Glocks because they're plastic and have a long trigger pull. But that is just a personal preference. Its silly to start bashing people because of what guns they prefer or how they carry them. A gun is a gun, if you shoot it well it will serve you well. If you keep your finger off the trigger it won't go off when you don't want it to. And nobody is going to run into a Dodge City type gunfight where an empty chamber or a safety to snick off is going to mean the difference between life and death.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Glocks are great for every level of shooter, provided you practice. Read Ed Sanow's article in the Guns Annual 2000 about DAO semi-autos. The Glock is neither a DAO or a SA. It is a safe-action pistol. With the pistol loaded and a round in the chamber, if the firing pin were to drop, the striker would not have enough power to detonate the primer. Only by pulling the trigger completely back does the firing pin safety, drop safety, and trigger safety disengage and allow the pistol to fire. What you have is a uniform trigger pull for each and every shot fired. A traditional DA gun is much more difficult to master given the different trigger pulls, and much MORE LIKELY to inadvertently discharge due to the transition to the lighter trigger pull of the second shot. If you fear the Glock's design or dislike Glocks, that's fine. I used to love 1911's until I started shooting Glocks, and mastered the trigger pull of this magnificent gun. Beauty is the eye of the beholder.
 
I always leave my G21 in a kydex paddle holster the time. It is loaded, and chambered, and it's IMPOSSIBLE for it to fire unless it is un-holstered and the trigger is depressed. Period.
 
The reported Glock recall is damning to my thinking to all the Glock hype and deep loyalty shown by glock fanatics.

Why don't the factory admit it - FIX it for free like Bill Ruger,like the slide breakages with 9mm Beretta etc -and then get on with the job !

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A thought from 'Big Bunny'...."The sword does not kill, it is a tool in the hands of the killer".... Seneca 'the younger' (circa AD 35)
 
Big Bunny, if you are referring to the problem with the recoil spring guides in the G27, that was not a recall. I had one of the defective recoil spring/guide rod assemblies and didn't know about the problem. It broke after 75 rounds. Neither I nor the gun were hurt. That G27 is my favorite gun now, and has never had a single problem since that time. Again, if you don't like Glocks, fine. Their customer service was top notch, and the testament to the gun is that even with a part failure, no permanent damage was done to the gun or myself.
 
Gentlemen, please live up to the term. I may or may not think that Glocks are unsafe for carry but whatever the amount of my disagreement with the rest of you, I will not be rude. How about it?
 
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