Giving my country away

Now what jurisdiction has 25% of its felons as illegals, it isn't MI.

Why is crime on the rise then if everyone is locked up? Job loss.

Migrants have been working fields since the '40's at least. Are illegals taking advantage of, yes. Did you lose your job picking melons, tomatoes, or any other vegtable?

I am all for hiring people to root out illegas and hiring people to check on people seeking entrance to the US. And putting a lock down on our borders to the south, and north, it seems as if the most recent cases of smuggling in explosives has been from canada.

Once again name the heavy lifting you want to talk about, from pneumatic jackhammers(90lb.s w/out bit) and repairingstorm drains that have had their metal grate sink because of poor design, to finishing cement, to loading regular sized parking blocks in to a pick-up truck by myself. No mexicans around, one yugosalvian, with proper documentation.
 
So are you saying that a person's background does not color their opinions on issues?
Of course not. You should note that that has nothing to do with what I said either. Allow me to quote myself, an individuals ancestral history has no bearing on the legitimacy of their current view on anything.

How do you become an american? A person born in columbia is an american. Just a south american. A person can become a citizen, through various routes. You can legally cross the border, have a child in the US, that child is a citizen, the mother, and maybe father can petiton to become citizens.
What does this have to do with anything? First a small semantic point, for the purposes of this conversation when I say “American” I mean North American, a citizen and national of the United States of America. :rolleyes: And while there are a multitude of routes by which a person can become a citizen, all of them allow America to make a decision as to whether or not that particular individual is somebody that we desire here in America. To make an overly simplified example, I am sure you would agree that America would be more than correct to deny citizenship to somebody like Saddam Hussein. An illegal alien by their actions removes the right we as a nation have to determine if a given individual should be allowed the option of becoming a citizen.

Morepeople have been crossing the border in the last 10 years because as american workers were needed in better jobs, less skilled jobs opened up. Most MI farmers were complaining about the lack of legit migrant help to pick crops in the mid-90's. College kids instead of getting menial labor summerjobs were getting skilled paying internships.
Why more people have been crossing the border recently is a matter of quite a bit of debate. I would contend that it is more a matter of “freebies” available to illegals than it is more available jobs for them. In fact (and I have no data to support this, it is merely an opinion), as technology has improved there are most likely fewer and fewer jobs available. For example, it takes far fewer people to bring in a crop of cotton than it did even a few years ago.

Where is the jump in crime? The crime rate was down through the 90's. Not because of less immigrants, but because of more jobs. Companies were hiring prisoners to come and work at plastic molding plants in Macomb and neighboring counties.
Whether there is a jump in the total number of crimes in America or not doesn’t necessarily mean that a higher percentage of illegal aliens commit crimes than a few years ago. Moreover, I am saying that the percentage of illegal aliens caught by the Border Patrol that have a criminal history is higher than it was years ago. This is just the plain and simple fact of the matter. You can choose to believe me on that or not, but it is true. Fact is as a simple “guesstimation”, well over half of those the Border Patrol catch have some form of criminal history. Compared to when my grandfather was a Border Patrol Agent 30 plus years ago and only a tiny percentage of those caught were criminals.
 
I guess I don't understand how you tell a legal alien from an illegal alien. From a citizen. If it is from the news I would believe that as much as I believe the "arsenal of weapons, and assault rifles a bad guy has, and they show a 5-shot sks,500 rds. of ammo a knife, and some handguns on a blanket.

I am all for hiring people to root out illegas and hiring people to check on people seeking entrance to the US. And putting a lock down on our borders to the south, and north, it seems as if the most recent cases of smuggling in explosives has been from canada.

The borders should be kept closed as tightly as possible to illegals, and illegal already here should be found, those on expired visas, or not. Allowing illegals to stay or get status should be case by case issue. People who are working, or have not had a violent criminal past, etc., should have the ability to be able to obtain legit status, on a case by case basis. This could be something that has a sunset provision to see if it is working or just garbage.

In your grandfather's day, how did they check a person's criminal past? I would guess that border crossers were already sent back over the border, and no checks were made. The technology has enabled you to "check a person out" in minutes rather than days. The only mexicans I know in texas were born here. 2 of my wife's uncles, and her grandmother, who paid FICA, and taxes all her life. I just know that all the people I have met at mexican festivals are nice people, if they can speak english or not, and that we have something in common, we like very hot (chilis)peppers.


an even larger number of people have already done so and show no sign of desiring to become Americans

This has been happening since the late '60's at least. My father managed his Uncles bar that was across from a ford plant. A lot of the Traditional European immigrants would retire and move back to thier native countries, and live like kings on pensions for auto companies, and social security if you can have that sent overseas.

Ah, I do not doubt that criminals are crossing are borders, and they need to be massively tightened, and i think your grandfather was overworked, and should have gotten a lot of help sooner, I think dems blocked this by crying racism. I just think that you should get credit for coming forward, and showing that you are honest. The dishonest people will probably not come forward and need to be caught.

I went back to an old job and was told that new hires were paid $10/hr, and migrants $7/hr. I do not think it is fair. If you would like a job, I can PM you a job description, and if you want to do it you can. A little note on christmas eve day 2 years in a row it snowed. I plowed snow for 4 hours, and when nobody showed to shovel walks I did that for another 2 1/2 hours, on a 700 unit apartment complex.

Sorry for misspelling legal all the time I knew a girl named leagal.
 
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Medal of Honor






ALFRED RASCON



Rank and organization: Specialist Fourth Class, U.S. Army, Reconnaissance Platoon, Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion (Airborne), 503rd Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade (Separate)



Place and date: Republic of Vietnam, 16 March 1966



Born: 1945, Chihuahua, Mexico



Citation:



Specialist Four Alfred Rascon, distinguished himself by a series of extraordinarily courageous acts on 16 March 1966, while assigned as a medic to the Reconnaissance Platoon, Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion (Airborne), 503rd Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade (Separate). While moving to reinforce its sister battalion under intense enemy attack, the Reconnaissance Platoon came under heavy fire from a numerically superior enemy force. The intense enemy fire from crew-served weapons and grenades severely wounded several point squad soldiers. Specialist Rascon, ignoring directions to stay behind shelter until covering fire could be provided, made his way forward. He repeatedly tried to reach the severely wounded point machine-gunner laying on an open enemy trail, but was driven back each time by the withering fire. Disregarding his personal safety, he jumped to his feet, ignoring flying bullets and exploding grenades to reach his comrade. To protect him from further wounds, he intentionally placed his body between the soldier and enemy machine guns, sustaining numerous shrapnel injuries and a serious wound to the hip. Disregarding his serious wounds he dragged the larger soldier from the fire-raked trail. Hearing the second machine-gunner yell that he was running out of ammunition, Specialist Rascon, under heavy enemy fire crawled back to the wounded machine-gunner stripping him of his bandoleers of ammunition, giving them to the machine-gunner who continued his suppressive fire. Specialist Rascon fearing the abandoned machine gun, its ammunition and spare barrel could fall into enemy hands made his way to retrieve them. On the way, he was wounded in the face and torso by grenade fragments, but disregarded these wounds to recover the abandoned machine gun, ammunition and spare barrel items, enabling another soldier to provide added suppressive fire to the pinned-down squad. In searching for the wounded, he saw the point grenadier being wounded by small arms fire and grenades being thrown at him. Disregarding his own life and his numerous wounds, Specialist Rascon reached and covered him with his body absorbing the blasts from the exploding grenades, and saving the soldier's life, but sustaining additional wounds to his body. While making his way to the wounded point squad leader, grenades were hurled at the sergeant. Again, in complete disregard for his own life, he reached and covered the sergeant with his body, absorbing the full force of the grenade explosions. Once more Specialist Rascon was critically wounded by shrapnel, but disregarded his own wounds to continue to search and aid the wounded. Severely wounded, he remained on the battlefield, inspiring his fellow soldiers to continue the battle. After the enemy broke contact, he disregarded aid for himself, instead treating the wounded and directing their evacuation. Only after being placed on the evacuation helicopter did he allow aid to be given to him. Specialist Rascon's extraordinary valor in the face of deadly enemy fire, his heroism in rescuing the wounded, and his gallantry by repeatedly risking his own life for his fellow soldiers are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army.

Vietnam Medic gets Medal of Honor

Alfred Rascon ( Center of Photo) March, 1966

Alfred Rascon February, 2000





WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Clinton on Tuesday 8 February 2000, awarded the nation's highest military award to Alfred Rascon for his bravery more than three decades ago during a skirmish in Vietnam's Long Khanh province.

"Thank you for looking out for people when no one else could be there for them. You have taught us once again that being American has nothing to do with place of birth, racial, ethnic origin, or religious faith. It comes straight from the heart. And your heart, sir, is an extraordinary gift to your country," said Clinton.

Rascon was humble during the Medal of Honor ceremony, noting that the honor belonged to the people who were with him that day. He asked the survivors to stand and be acknowledged at the White House.

"What you see before you is common valor that was done every day. And those of you who served in the military -- and continue to serve in the military -- are very much aware of that. What you do every day, it is duty, honor and country. And I'm deeply honored to be here," Rascon said.



Recipient emigrated from Mexico



The president noted that Rascon was born in Mexico and moved to the United States with his family. The immigrant enlisted in the U.S. Army after graduating from high school in California.

"Alfred was once asked why he volunteered to join and to go to Vietnam when he was not even a citizen. An he said, 'I was always an American in my heart.' Alfred Rascon, today we honor you as you have honored us by your choice to become an American and your courage in reflecting the best of America," said Clinton.

Tuesday's ceremony was long overdue: Rascon was nominated for the medal shortly after his display of valor. But his papers were lost in the Pentagon shuffle for three decades before the men with whom he served found out the honor was never granted.

They say Rascon's receipt of the nation's highest combat decoration is just their way of returning the favor.



Valor, gallantry and heroism



Rascon was a 21-year-old battalion medic with the U.S. Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade on March 16, 1966, when his unit was attacked by North Vietnamese troops. In the fighting that ensued, Rascon repeatedly ran into the line of fire -- treating three men, saving two of them -- despite being wounded himself.

"I happened to have gotten shot, happened to have gotten hit by a hand grenade," he said.

Pvt. Neil Haffey was one of those who credit the self-effacing Rascon with saving their lives. Already wounded, Rascon dove on Haffey as a grenade exploded just five feet away.

"I didn't even know he was gonna do it, and I just turned my head away because I didn't want to see death coming," Haffey said. "I thought I was dead, you know?"

Rascon's heroism turned the tide, rallying his battalion and saving his men, who were carried out of the field by helicopter. Rascon spent six months in Japan recovering from his wounds and received the Silver Star.



Lost in bureaucracy



Rascon's battalion mates recommended him for the Medal of Honor. A few years ago, they discovered he never got his award.

The citation was lost in the Pentagon bureaucracy, and the Army refused to reopen the case. The men of the 173rd turned to Illinois U.S. Rep. Lane Evans, who caught Clinton's ear and won a change of heart from the Army.

"Usually, they had to be considered within two years of the acts," said Evans, who sits on the House Veterans Affairs Committee.

A native of Chihuahua, Mexico, Rascon became a naturalized American citizen in 1967. He returned to Vietnam for a second tour in the 1970s, this time as a military adviser.
 
Now living in Washington's Maryland suburbs and serving as the inspector general for the U.S. Selective Service, Rascon insists the rest of his squad displayed as much courage as he did that day, but his old comrades see it differently.

"I have four daughters, and four beautiful grandchildren. I have a wonderful wife," Haffey said. "Those are all gifts from Doc."






A video report about the Alfred Rascon Medal of Honor.

QuickTime required to play the video

Vietnam Medic Given Medal of Honor

By Sonya Ross

Associated Press Writer

Tuesday , February 8, 2000

WASHINGTON -- His Army uniform aglow with ribbons and his eyes trained on the floor, Alfred Rascon seemed embarrassed to be at the White House on Tuesday receiving lavish praise - much less America's highest military honor.

Only after President Clinton draped the Medal of Honor around his neck did a smile play across Rascon's face. He had glanced at the men he covered with his body in a Vietnamese jungle 34 years ago to absorb grenade blasts and shrapnel that would have killed them and almost killed him.

"The honor is not really mine," Rascon said. "It ends up being those who were with me that day." He asked the guys from his platoon to stand up, and they did, tears welling in their eyes. The former Army medic accepted his medal and saluted the commander in chief who presented it.

It was a glorious moment long denied to Rascon, 54, the son of Mexican immigrants, who joined the Army out of love for his adopted homeland. He was not yet a U.S. citizen when he went to Vietnam. But when, recovered from his wounds, he returned to Vietnam later in the war, it was as an American.

"This man gave everything he had, utterly and selflessly, to protect his platoon mates and the nation he was still not yet a citizen of," Clinton said. "You have honored us by your choice to become an American. ... Thank you for reminding us that being an American has nothing to do with the place of your birth, the color of your skin, the language of your parents or the way you worship God."

Rascon is not the first immigrant to receive the Medal of Honor. Immigrants received one in five of the 3,427 medals authorized since the honor was created in 1861. There are 166 living Medal of Honor recipients.

Within days of his battlefield bravery, Rascon was recommended for the Medal of Honor by the men he saved. The paperwork was lost, as Clinton said, "in a thicket of red tape," and Rascon received the Silver Star instead.

"But it wasn't what we had written up," one of the men, Ray Compton, told reporters Tuesday. "Neither one of us would be here today if it hadn't been for Al. Maybe not in his own eyes, but in our eyes, he's a hero. No doubt about it."

Compton said he wasn't aware that Rascon never received the honor until, in 1993, he asked Rascon what it was like to have the Medal of Honor. Rascon replied that he didn't know.

Compton, fellow platoon members Neil Haffey and Larry Gibson and other veterans sought to correct the oversight.

They received a pivotal assist from Rep. Lane Evans, D-Ill., an advocate for Vietnam veterans. The Pentagon would not reconsider Rascon's case because so much time had elapsed, so Evans gave a packet of information about it to President Clinton in 1997.

The Pentagon relented last May, and Defense Secretary William Cohen approved the honor in November.

Clinton praised Rascon for his "long, patient wait for recognition" and the continual commitment to serving his country that he has displayed since March 16, 1966.

That day, Rascon's platoon came under attack in a Vietnamese jungle. The young medic ignored orders to stay down and ran past flying bullets to get to Haffey, who was wounded. Rascon was shot in the hip and suffered several shrapnel wounds. A grenade exploded in his face.

Still, Rascon dragged Haffey to safety. Despite his wounds, he went out again to deliver ammunition to a machine gunner. He then covered Compton and Gibson with his body to protect them from harm as he treated their wounds.

"Through this extraordinary succession of courageous acts, he never gave a single thought to himself," Clinton said. "Except, he admits, for the instant when the grenade exploded near his face, and he thought, 'Oh God, my good looks are gone.'"

Rascon was so badly wounded that last rites were administered. He nevertheless recuperated at an Army hospital in Japan and was discharged in May 1966.

Rascon went on to be graduated from college and the Army's Infantry Officer Candidate School. A native of Chihuahua, Mexico, Rascon was naturalized an American in 1967 and returned to Vietnam for a second tour in the 1970s, this time as a military adviser.

Rascon, a civil servant since 1983, is inspector general of the Selective Service System in Arlington, Va. He lives in Laurel, Md., with his wife and two children.



By the way, Major Rascon remained in the Army Reserves. At 59, he is on active duty, having served in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I've got one thing to say about this immigrant: He makes up for thousands of welfare wannabes and crooks.

Would you want to keep him out of this country just to keep them out?

For that matter, how many of us natural born US citizens is this Mexican immigrant worth? Anyone here want to claim to being a better man?

Oh, yeah for the Jumping Bear thingie. As a matter of fact, I do have 'native' American ancestry. Yuchi, one of the tribes of the Creek Confederation. According to an old letter by a South Carolina judge, my family also has black ancestors. As well as English, Welsh, Scots, French and who knows what?

Welfare for immigrants? I don't want to give US citizens welfare!
 

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Danindetroit,

I guess I don't understand how you tell a legal alien from an illegal alien.
Well I could probably give you a several characteristics of illegals, but I’m not real sure what you’re getting at here. Regardless of whether or not you think you can look at two people and say that one is illegal or the other is not, there is one extremely important difference; one person enters the United States of America with the attitude that in the end, his personal desires are more important than the laws of another nation of which he wishes to be a guest. Such a person is not one I would want around.

In your grandfather's day, how did they check a person's criminal past?
In my grandfathers day they didn’t (for the most part). If you will note in my post however, I specifically mentioned illegal alien traffic from 10 years ago. Matter of fact, illegal aliens have changed from even 5 years ago. There are far more criminals crossing the border illegally today than there were just a few short years ago.

This (Ahenry: lack of assimilation) has been happening since the late '60's at least. My father managed his Uncles bar that was across from a ford plant. A lot of the Traditional European immigrants would retire and move back to thier native countries…
I wouldn’t argue that point at all. However, do you think that something on the order of some thousands of legal immigrants spread all across the nation is really the same as millions of illegal aliens spread across a relatively small portion of the nation? I wouldn’t.

I just think that you should get credit for coming forward, and showing that you are honest.
I am a big fan of forgiveness. That doesn’t mean that the consequences of ones actions (in this case, breaking the law) should be done away with. Fact of the matter is that illegal aliens broke the law, knew they broke the law, continue to break the law every single day they remain in America, know this and don’t care. Generally speaking, that kind of person isn’t one I would want anything to do with.

I went back to an old job and was told that new hires were paid $10/hr, and migrants $7/hr. I do not think it is fair.
Depends. If they are telling you that they are paying a different wage to migrants, then they are probably only hiring legal migrants and I can think of a ton of reasons why I might not want to hire a migrant or at least pay as much (depending on the job). For instance, if I had a business that interacted with customers on a regular basis I wouldn’t want to hire somebody fresh from Mexico that hardly understands English, much less speaks it. In a situation like that, the migrant worker would be worth much less to me than an English speaking employee. Of course this is just an example, but I mention it to say that just because there is a difference in wages (note that the migrants are still getting well over minimum wage) doesn’t mean they are being unfairly taken advantage of.
 
ah I guess we agree to disagree. We live in different parts of the country, and the people who commit crimes is different. Most mexicans who commit crimes I know of were born here. So any person who came to the united states illegally or legally, who lets their visa expire, or who has a student visa and only works and does not go to school should be kicked out without any review? If illegals aren't getting jobs here then the people who are giving them jobs should get lengthy prison terms to stop the problem. Correct?

According to Fed law I thought that discriminating on the basis of country of origin was illegal. Try telling a woman that because she can not lift up the same weight as a man she gets paid less. I personally think that if you own a business that you should be able to run it how you like. The job has no customer interaction. I just think that the problem of dangerous illegals will go away when we win the war on drugs, the same way we won the war on alcohol. I am assumming E-2 is either a pay or rank scale in either the military or some governmental agency. I hope you swore an oath to uphold the constitution. My biggest problem is that in the declaration of independence that we have the freedom to life liberty , and the pursuit of Happiness. Pursuit meaning not achieving it, but pursuing it. I never take for granted the fact that I can turn multiple faucets and get clean drinking water, push buttons in my house and get hot, or cold air. Like Byron said I do not want welfare for anybody. The worst welfare cheats I knew of were born in the usa. I guess I think, what would I do to make sure my family, and friends were safe, and healthy.

I have no idea why I can not have over $10,000 on me at one time, why the government needs to know of deposits people make in their bank accounts over a certain amount. Police officers can impound possesions that they say were bought with drug proceeds, and do not have to prove it. Police regularly arrest people, and confiscate cash bail for drug dealers when drug sniffing dogs alert for drugs. Most of the currency in the states is contaminated so that almost any bills will get a positive reaction. Why my Dr. must inform govt agencies of medication that I am being prescribed. Why the prescription of those meds must be filled in 7 days. People wonder why healthcare cost keep going up look at big brother.
 
I’m sorry, were we talking about legal or illegal immigration?

Do you know if his parents were legal or illegal when they brought him to the US? I don't. I do know that I want him here whether he was legal or illegal. I do know that he was not a citizen when he performed the acts that won the Medal of Honor. I do know that at 59 he is now on active duty. Why is he on active duty in both Iraq and Afghanistan? He says it's because he owed it to the young kids. Think about it.

He's a vastly better American than I'll ever be. What about you?

According to the statistics that I have seen: fully 20% of the holders of the Medal of Honor have been immigrants.
 
Just a couple of quick things. I don't mind immigration as long as it is not done in violation of our laws. If you do come to this country, you do not try to impose your customs and culture on someone else and then raise hell about being discriminated against. If you come to America, you understand that English is the accepted language. High school graduates will be able to speak English. Don't expect to go to the DMV and get your photo taken with a scarf covering everything but your eyes. Accept that our Constitution was written by people of the Christian faith. We don't expect you to worship under that faith, but don't try to tell us we can't. You will pledge allegiance to the Stars and Stripes and not complain when I do the same. Really, I don't have a problem with immigration, but when you are in Rome, you act like the Romans.
 
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In order to help you folks out, I'll give you solution to a large part of the problem.

Many of the illegals are garnering freebies of enormous proportions; that costs me money, and I don't like it. On the other hand, we have a larger number of healthy goldbricks, unwilling to work, looking constantly to suck dry the t*ts of our liberal welfare system, that are native USAers.

Form two lines: illegals on one side and malingerers on the other.

A judge walks the line.
"Doreen, will you clean the tables at IHOP for 5.50 an hour?" asks the judge.
"No," says Do, 25-year old mother of four with 3 fathers and no skill at all, except to spill babies like a pez dispenser.
The judge asks Paco, the illegal, the same question.
"SI, senor!" he answers enthusiastically.
The judge proclaims, "Paco, you are now an US citizen, willing to work and not be a parasite. Doreen, you are now a Mexican citizen and you will be deported."

See? It's so simple. I like my world.:D
 
Danindetroit,

So any person who came to the united states illegally or legally, who lets their visa expire, or who has a student visa and only works and does not go to school should be kicked out without any review?
Yes. They are a guest that violated their agreement with the United States. What is so confusing about that?

If illegals aren't getting jobs here then the people who are giving them jobs should get lengthy prison terms to stop the problem. Correct?
That is a more complicated issue but the simple answer is “yes”, the should receive some sort of punishment.

According to Fed law I thought that discriminating on the basis of country of origin was illegal.
My examples wasn’t discriminating on the basis of country of origin, it was discriminating on the basis of ability to do the job.

I just think that the problem of dangerous illegals will go away when we win the war on drugs, the same way we won the war on alcohol.
I strongly disagree with this. There have always been criminals crossing the border, way before the war on drugs came along. Granted the war on drugs has made a lot of those criminals much more inclined to violence but there has always been a criminal element crossing the border, aside from those crossing the border illegally that are criminals due to that very action.

I am assumming E-2 is either a pay or rank scale in either the military or some governmental agency. I hope you swore an oath to uphold the constitution.
E-2 is a pay rank but the E-2 in my profile is an organization I belonged to back at Texas A&M University. I did swear to uphold the constitution though.You certainly aren’t trying to say that my point of view here is somehow in violation of that oath are you? That would just be ridiculous.

Like Byron said I do not want welfare for anybody. The worst welfare cheats I knew of were born in the usa.
I would submit that the reason you see more native born welfare bums is because you live in Detroit. Try living in a border state and saying the same thing. There are several respected organizations that have conducted study’s showing that illegals on average use about three thousand dollars more in government service than they contribute to the coffers. More importantly, they are breaking the law and they know it.

I guess I think, what would I do to make sure my family, and friends were safe, and healthy.
Sure, any person worth their salt would do the same. Doing so does not mean you have to break the law. I don’t know exact numbers but I do know that millions of people obtain work visas. Some types of visas don’t even have limits on how many can be issued each year. And those are just the Non-Immigrant work visas. Many, many more visas are available to legally enter the United States. Don’t give me the “they just want a better life” baloney. Sure that’s all they want, but the point is they don’t give a crap about the law. The attitude is “whatever I want”.
 
ahenry said:
I would submit that the reason you see more native born welfare bums is because you live in Detroit. Try living in a border state and saying the same thing.
Uhh.. ahenry? Michigan *is* a border state.

As a matter of fact, Detroit is much like El Paso, Texas. There is a foreign country right across the river to the south. :)
 
Uhh.. ahenry? Michigan *is* a border state.
You’re right. :o

However, we both know that the number of Canadians crossing the border legally or illegally nowhere near approaches the number of Mexicans crossing the border illegally. That’s what I was trying to get at.
 
I think that they could be granted temporary legal status with an opportunity in a few years to apply for american citizenship. My mother is from mexico and she is now a legal citizen but I know from from firsthand experience that it is not easy to just apply for american citizenship. Some people will wait 15+ years to get the opportunity to apply. That's why some people just give up and come illegally. A good point was made about people who hire illegals. That is part of the problem. If nobody gave illegals jobs we wouldn't have that big of a problem would we. We also have to be realistic however and realize immigrants do a lot of jobs that most of us won't do. It also depends like others have said, on where you live. Many businesses and companies survive solely off of immigrant workers and have stated publicly that they would not survive without them. Just keep in mind that a vietnamese or mexican applying for citizenship is a little different than a canadian or british. A mexican even knowing english can not simply apply for american citizenship. It's a matter of luck for them. Just my .02
 
My mother is from mexico and she is now a legal citizen but I know from from firsthand experience that it is not easy to just apply for american citizenship. Some people will wait 15+ years to get the opportunity to apply. That's why some people just give up and come illegally.
You’re right; it can be tough to become a citizen. That doesn’t take into account the multitude of options open to people to come to the United States legally. You don’t have to be a citizen or national of the United States to come here. There are hundreds (and I mean that number literally) of visa options. Certainly a given individual might not qualify for many (or even most) of them but that doesn’t mean that person should resort to breaking the law. And in the end, even if that person doesn’t qualify for a single visa that still doesn’t justify crossing the border illegally.

A good point was made about people who hire illegals. That is part of the problem. If nobody gave illegals jobs we wouldn't have that big of a problem would we.
I certainly think that there needs to be some consequences for those that hire illegal aliens, however the issue is not as simple as you think. For instance, suppose a 40 year old man in Mexico goes to his local Coyote and pays 200 bucks for a valid LAPR card that has the picture of a man that looks similar to him. This man then swims across the Rio Grande (to avoid dealing with the document expert at the POE) and walks/rides up to Oklahoma where he goes to the nearest McDonalds that is hiring and shows the man there his newly acquired (but not actually him) LAPR card. Can you put the man that hired him in jail, or fine the corporation for not knowing that the card was actually a picture of somebody else? This is just one example and I’m using the latest and greatest “laser visas” to make my point. There are even more opportunities for fraud if you look at the older visa types. My point is that it is not the easiest thing in the world to show that an employer knowingly hired an illegal alien.

We also have to be realistic however and realize immigrants do a lot of jobs that most of us won't do.
That is incorrect. Aliens (and especially illegal aliens) will do a given job for a much lower wage than Americans will. Here in America the cost of labor is high, in Mexico it is far lower. A Mexican is much happier to pick lettuce for 4-5 bucks an hour than an American. Illegal immigration has artificially controlled the market price of labor.

Just keep in mind that a vietnamese or mexican applying for citizenship is a little different than a canadian or british. A mexican even knowing english can not simply apply for american citizenship.
Baloney. The requirements are exactly the same for a Mexican as they are for a Britain. I am sure the backlog of applications for Mexicans is a lot higher for Mexicans, but the requirements are the same.
 
AH besides drug smuggling and immigration violations, what are these criminals aliens doing here? There are all sorts of nationalities being smuggled acros the canadian border. If I remember correctly the explosives that were going to be used to blow up LAX on New years 1999 were coming in from the northwest border.

There is a great deal of smuggling of cigarettes across the border in detroit.

I guess you have not gone to a hospital and had a Dr. or nurse who could barely speak the language treat you. If you hire somebody for a position and pay them less and then try to tell a judge they weren't qualified for the position the judge is going to ask why did you hire an unqualified person to do a job they couldn't do. I mentioned a specific job and pay rates that they could do. That is against the law to discriminate on the basis of national origin.

So how do we round up all these people in the states, arrest every mexican, or everyone with a funny lastname? There is no tracking system for legal aliens, who have let visas expire, how are you going to find people you know nothing about.

What are all these freebies I hear aliens getting?

Is a visa violation a felony? You don't want criminals or visa violators. Get online and find out how many sex offenders live around you. I wonder why they don't have a burglary list a murder list, or just criminals.

You state that criminals entered our country illeagally, that it is increasing from your grandfather's day, but you admit that your grandfather did not check people's criminal history. I do not trust your website, so I won't look at it. What organization do you belong to.
 
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