Get a lawyer before talking to police

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Always retain counsel when arrested or believe you will be arrested.
Always take advantage of your right of self-incrimmination and remain silent.
Always retain counsel who is conversant in the offense at hand; do not use a free family friend who does not actively practice in the specific area of law that you require.
 
I guess I've just never had a bad experience with law enforcement so I am not concerned about speaking to them. I don't plan to tell my life story or anything but if they ask questions I'll answer them. I have been stopped twice by bored county deputies (rural area) who found a license plate light out, and one that the trailer lights on my boat were going on and off with each bump in the road due to a bad ground wire. Both could have written me up, I actually thanked both officers for letting me know what was wrong so I could fix it, heck I can't see the license plate light from inside my truck. No ticket, at least one officer acted as though he REALLY wanted to write me a ticket, but I its tougher to do to someone who is polite and appreciative, I wore a uniform and badge for about 20 years so I have a positive bias toward LEO's in general. FWIW I was not a cop, I was a Park Ranger.
 
I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, nor did I sleep at a holiday inn last night. However, I have been involved in self defense training on college campuses for almost 30 years, and all the advise I have received from numerous lawyers and law enforcement officers mirrors Frank Ettin's post #5.

Saying something like, "That person (or those people) attacked me." You are thus immediately identifying yourself as the victim. It also helps get the investigation off on the right track.
Saying something like, "I will sign a complaint." You are thus immediately identifying the other guys(s) as the criminal(s).
Pointing out possible evidence, especially evidence that may not be immediate apparent. You don't want any such evidence to be missed.
Pointing out possible witnesses before they vanish.
Then saying something like, "I'm not going to say anything more right now. You'll have my full cooperation in 24 hours, after I've talked with my lawyer."
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The above are the same instructions that I tell every group of students that I work with. Your communication with responding officers needs to be clear and simple - who, what, when, and where.
 
Unless the other guy immediately dies, he may very well give his *side* of the story. It could be immediately, or it could be in hours or days later.
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True, and also remember that not everyone who is shot dies. The shooter may be facing an assault or attempted murder charge instead of a homicide.
 
"That investigation starts as soon as the police arrive on scene."

Well, maybe. The investigation may start then, but the occurrences being investigated start before that, maybe a long time before. The 911 call will be part of the investigation. So will the prior actions of the (presumably) self-defense shooter and the victim. And the investigation may turn up information the "innocent" party would rather not have revealed, with unpredictable results.

Jim
 
James K said:
...The 911 call will be part of the investigation. So will the prior actions of the (presumably) self-defense shooter and the victim. And the investigation may turn up information the "innocent" party would rather not have revealed, with unpredictable results.
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Yes, that is true. However, it is also unavoidable. Once you have threatened or used lethal force against another person you have prima facie committed a crime. So if you threatened or used that force in what you will claim was justified self defense and expect to be able to avoid criminal responsibility on that basis, the question we're considering is what you can do post incident to best support and preserve that claim.
 
The investigation may start then, but the occurrences being investigated start before that, maybe a long time before.
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Including social media postings, youtube videos, bloodlust internet postings, internet pictures of yourself with evil looking guns, etc...

So, keep that in mind. This stuff all tends to surface in criminal trials. While YOU might invoke your right to remain silent, YOU might be giving statements inadvertently when irresponsible and out-of-context internet postings are presented to the prosecutor or judge or jury...

So take down that "Shoot first ask questions later" or other stupid signs on your front door, your bumper sticker, stop wearing those silly T-shirts, no blood lust style postings on the web, etc.
 
leadcounsel said:
Including social media postings, youtube videos, bloodlust internet postings, internet pictures of yourself with evil looking guns, etc...

So, keep that in mind. This stuff all tends to surface in criminal trials. While YOU might invoke your right to remain silent, YOU might be giving statements inadvertently when irresponsible and out-of-context internet postings are presented to the prosecutor or judge or jury...
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And that is true. Everything you have said or done prior to the incident is out there already and fair game. Nothing you could say or do after the incident will erase any of it.
 
I think Branca's advice is very good. And I agree with the approach of the people wisely supporting it.

Branca's tenents are succinct, logical and broad enough to fit most SD cases I can imagine.

That said, when you do invoke right to attorney at the point Branca, Spats et all sagely advise, or even after, at that point you still in some situations will come under withering pressure from the investigating officers that your silence or request of an attorney implies guilt.
 
Posted by TDL: ...when you do invoke right to attorney at the point Branca, Spats et all sagely advise, or even after, at that point you still in some situations will come under withering pressure from the investigating officers that your silence or request of an attorney implies guilt.
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And according to Salinas v. Texas, your silence before you have been arrested may be used against you.

I do not see any problem with saying that you had reason to believe that you had been forced to defend yourself (I would not elucidate), and that you did it with a particular weapon. You are going to have to admit those facts anyway, if you do mount a defense of justification.

Ayoob used to advise saying something like "officer, you know how important this is--you will have my full cooperation in 24 hours after I have spoken with my attorney". So far, I've seen nothing to indicate against that reommentdation.
 
And according to Salinas v. Texas, your silence before you have been arrested may be used against you.
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They can use my silence against me all they want, that is vastly preferable to me opening my mouth and providing them with actual statements and evidence to use against me. I have been lied to and about by police in the past, so this is where we are.

My silence will always infer guilt within the minds of some people, specifically LEO, who really don't like having their queries not answered, they can think whatever they want, I'm way ahead of them; I'm thinking about my dealings with the court system.
 
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iraiam said:
They can use my silence against me all they want, that is vastly preferable to me opening my mouth and providing them with actual statements and evidence to use against me.

My silence will always infer guilt within the minds of some people, specifically LEO, who really don't like having their queries not answered, they can think whatever they want, I'm way ahead of them; I'm thinking about my dealings with the court system.
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Silence didn't work out well for Mr. Salinas, either before his trial or at his trial.
 
Salinas silence was specific and pertained to actual physical evidence, during a voluntary interrogation. He clammed up in the middle of the interrogation, 2 stupid moves right in a row.

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever agree to a voluntary interrogation for any reason. Any attorney that would advise me to submit to such an interrogation, even with said attorney present, will be fired immediately.
 
iraiam said:
...It will be a cold day in hell before I ever agree to a voluntary interrogation for any reason. Any attorney that would advise me to submit to such an interrogation, even with said attorney present, will be fired immediately.
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And that might not be the best idea if you ever need to use your gun in what you will want to claim is self defense. See posts 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 16, 18, 30, 38, 46, 55, 57, 58, 59, and 66
 
And that might not be the best idea if you ever need to use your gun in what you will want to claim is self defense. See posts 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 16, 18, 30, 38, 46, 55, 57, 58, 59, and 66
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possibly, but the bigger mistake would be firing my weapon in a situation that would leave the question of self defense in need of answering by anything other than physical evidence. I will admit that we generally don't get to choose these situations.

As I have said in other threads, as a private citizen; I must be absolutely sure of my justification to use lethal force, mistaking a Pepsi can for a firearm only works as justification for government agents.
 
Posted by iraiam: [(In response to "that might not be the best idea if you ever need to use your gun in what you will want to claim is self defense. See posts 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 16, 18, 30, 38, 46, 55, 57, 58, 59, and 66")] ...possibly, but the bigger mistake would be firing my weapon in a situation that would leave the question of self defense in need of answering by anything other than physical evidence. I will admit that we generally don't get to choose these situations.

As I have said in other threads, as a private citizen; I must be absolutely sure of my justification to use lethal force, ...
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Not firing a weapon in a striation that would raise questions regarding justification is a great start, but if do have to use force and you cannot produce sufficient evidence of justification in your "dealings with the court system, how "absolutely sure" you may be could well be for nought.

Your inability to be able to produce the necessary evidence may result from the instigating officers not having noted it at the scene, and that may in turn have resulted directly from your not having pointed it out to them when you had the chance.
 
but the bigger mistake would be firing my weapon in a situation that would leave the question of self defense in need of answering by anything other than physical evidence.
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You're walking down the street at night in Reno and a guy steps out of the shadows. He has his hand in the pocket of his hoodie and appears to be holding a gun. He tells you to hand over your money or he's going to shoot you and might shoot anyway just to watch you you die. You pull your pistol and fire two shots, killing the man. As it turns, out the man has only a cell phone in his pocket and no criminal record. Nobody else saw what happened. How are the police going to figure out you shot the guy in self-defense?
 
You're walking down the street at night in Reno and a guy steps out of the shadows. He has his hand in the pocket of his hoodie and appears to be holding a gun. He tells you to hand over your money or he's going to shoot you and might shoot anyway just to watch you you die. You pull your pistol and fire two shots, killing the man. As it turns, out the man has only a cell phone in his pocket and no criminal record. Nobody else saw what happened. How are the police going to figure out you shot the guy in self-defense?
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having been in that nearly exact situation, unarmed I might add, I don't need any hypothetical stories or anecdotal evidence, thank you very much, and I kept my wallet.
 
I don't need any hypothetical stories or anecdotal evidence, thank you very much,
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Then why post at all in this thread? The thread is based on hypotheticals. Seems like just a way to avoid answering. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah especially seeing how people just cut a partial quote and use it against me out of context.

So I guess You're right, there is no need for me to continue this discussion, enjoy!
 
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