Gas Prices

Well here is a statistic.....

everything you buy in a store has to be delivered by plane, train,ship,car or truck. They use fuel :eek:

Which means everything you purchase and some services are effected by the cost of fuel....

So not only does your pocketbook get hit at the gas station but at the store also. We just notice it more when we fill out tanks because its a bigger number.
 
Sorry, Red, but you just flat do not know what you are talking about. That's not an insult, it's an observation.

Every Town Car since 1990 has pulled down 25mpg highway or better. A bad one does 25. 30 is not unheard of. The Northstar will do that all day long in a Seville and about that in a Deville. This is factual observation from having had dozens of them over the past ten years. It's why I seldom drive anything but a T/C or Seville for business, there is no substitute for the comfort, perfomance and mileage.

I don't have the percentage on hand but the fact is the massive bulk of Chevy and GMC trucks(full size) produced since 1988 are still on the road. It's amazing how many from the 70's and even the 60's are still out there. The bulk of those '88 and up models not on the road were wrecked and some simply wound up being scavenged for parts even though they were otherwise good trucks(W/T's wind up as donors for 4x4's way too often, for example). Meanwhile Toyotas and Hondas fail with about the same regularity as US made cars. In other words, most are long gone.

OTOH, we do still semi-regularly see US made cars from the 80's, 70's and even the 60's at auctions. It's a rare thing when a pre-1990 Japanese car comes thru, and it's generally a rolling hulk when it does happen(usually Toyotas with the body rusted off but a strong 22R motor). European cars from the 80's or before are almost unheard of(do still see an occasional Jag or Porche, usually with totally useless electrics).

In an "equal collision" a unibody car can offer more protection than a body on frame vehicle. In an unequal collision(the real world), especially involving quality built vehicles, the larger body on frame vehicle will come out on top, sometimes literally, every time. In the real world bigger IS better. See it every week.

Oh, I've been in a collision between one of these old cars you denigrate and a late model. We drove away the 70's car. They took the 90's model, and the driver, away in buckets. Sorry, just the way it was. Also, I restore old cars and trucks(when the opportunity presents itself) and the lousy quality and construction of the things I sell daily is obvious compared to the old beasts we put back together in the back.

Sorry, cars have not gotten better, we've just heaped safety devices upon them to make up for the horrible lack of build quality and structural strength. Throw on modern tires, modern brakes and modern headlights to a quality car from the 60's and, in the hands of a good driver, you're far safer than in a new one. Likewise foreign cars are not better than US, they just have fewer problems short-term. Long term they break just as often while costing far more to fix. A US made car nickle and dimes you from day one. A Japanese car makes you happy till the $500 repair bills start showing up regularly at 5 or 6 years of age...

Lastly, the idea a SUV is less controllable than any other vehicle is laughable. Again, we are talking the real world here, where almost nobody ever pushes their auto, no matter how pathetic the little bugger may be, to its operational limits. I drive harder than most people and I have never had a truck in good mechanical condition that I got near its limits or felt was "uncontrollable" unless i was engaged in some truly amazing bit of "hold my beer and watch this" stupidity. Likewise I've never managed to push a car to the brink unless I was doing something terribly stupid and THAT is operator error, not the fault of the car or truck.

So, when some of you are into micro-car #3 I'll still be driving the same 'burb. No payments, less than 7k in it total, no potential repair other than collision damage that can cost me more than $400( a transmission, say) and 15 or so MPG. You, OTOH, will be making that $395 a month pymt(is it year 10 or 14 you've been at it?), worrying about the warranty running out(again) and wondering if your 30MPG made up the difference and what happened to the last two you sent to the boneyard(still there, soaking oil into the dirt).

BTW, that's 47k you spend in 10 years if you are always making that average car pymt. You actually get little or nothing when you trade in(I'll tell you right here, like most dealers if I can't get your trade for no out-of-pocket expense on my part, I really don't want it). Figure in that 10 years you drive 200k and use around 7000 gallons of gas. I use 14000. You save, at current prices(just to give you small car owners an edge) $10000 compared to my fuel costs. Cool...buying used, driving long and keeping it simple saves me 30k in a decade vs your total costs... I like that and screw the gas mileage...

Oh, did we discuss insurance costs yet? :)
 
Size Matters

Redworm said:
NHSTA ratings do not assume smashing into the same type of vehicle. They assume very little, in fact. Crash tests are done with numerous variables and are typically quite accurate at determining how well occupants will be protected in a vehicle in the event of a crash.
They are getting better and more sophisticated, but still do not account for the big "M" vs little "m" collisions that occur on the road. I can think of several reasons for this, but the most likely is political.

Reality on the road tells a different story from the one you are:
occupants_chart2_2004.gif


Redworm said:
Then I hope you're prepared to lose your money or pastries. The Excursion has been built on the same Ford truck platform since the late 90s and that platform is considered one of the most unsafe the auto industry has ever seen.

http://www.leasetips.com/f150crashtest.htm

I like Krispy Kreme glazed, hot out of the oven, thanks.

The link you provided was for the Ford F-150, 1/2 ton pickup. The Excursion is based on the F-250/350 Super Duty chassis. They are entirely different vehicles with entirely different designs.
 
Now would be a great time for the liberal party to slash taxes at the pump, and for the oil companies.

Exxon just passes taxes they have to pay on to us at the pump, and, we get to pay the dems and enviros even more tax money thru state and fed. tax.

In Minnesota, only 7% of the money stolen by the democrats at the gas pumps goes to roads, the rest goes to welfare, love your own criminal programs, sex changes, buy a house for a rapist program, and more gun laws.

I wonder what a gallon of gas really costs?
 
This just in:
Lawmakers Scramble to Ease Gas-Price Pain
AP - Thu Apr 27, 1:47 PM ET
WASHINGTON - Senate Republicans proposed a $100 rebate check for millions of taxpayers Thursday to counter high gasoline costs, but linked the assistance to drilling in an Alaska wildlife refuge, assuring the measure would face stiff opposition from most Democrats. Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee called the proposal "a bold package that will give consumers some relief" from gasoline prices that have passed $3 a gallon in many parts of the country.
 
wow is right..a hundred buckaroos.you can bet that hundred buckaroos is going to cost you a minimum 6xs that much after the fat lady sings...an thats goin to be awhile.any taxes imposed on major companies ..they arent going to bat an eye,they will just slam the consumers with extra price hikes and continue the same retoric that started the whole thing.cash is king.

until then, Im avoiding the gas stations as much as possable.let em eat it.
 
I find this to be untrue. I work midnights, and I see the fuel trucks come and go. Want to know something? Regardless of brand, out of the 8 stations in my little town, all eight of them get the fuel from the exact same truck, from the exact same resevoir. Of these eight stores, there are 6 different "brands" of gas company

This is likely because you are in a little town. Here in the big city (actually, the sprawling suburbia), we're near a big port for gasoline. So it's no problem for Amoco to be Amoco and Exxon to be Exxon. In fact, there was a recent problem with damage being done to fuel level sensors in certain cars by two grades of Shell gasoline only. The premium was OK, but the other 2 grades damaged the sensors. All the pumps were disabled except premium for several days until the problem got sorted out.

No other brand reported any complaints or shut down any delivery.

In your town some businessmen probably got together and decided it was more profitable for all of them to have one truck or a couple trucks haul the gasoline from the port or refinery to all of them rather than pay ten trucks to carry partial loads for every refill.
 
Second, I have to take issue with some of the things you said...

Like you, I am in the automotive business...I turn wrenches at the Ford dealership in town.

But, "throwing on modern tires, modern brakes and modern headlights to a quality car from the 60's", does not make it safer than a modern one. No ABS. No airbags. No collapsible steering column. No short stopping distances. No safety belts for some of those 60's rigs. No power steering on a lot of them. No impact-absorbing bumpers...just chrome shielding. Granted, you specified the hands of a good driver. Which many Americans are not. I do alignments and replace wheels all day, and the body shop does a brisk business. Most people are average to poor drivers.

New cars are pretty reliable. As far as maintenance goes, your 'Burb (suburban, I presume) needs spark plugs every thirty thousand miles. It also needs distributor caps and rotors. It probably needs carb adjustments, and has no self-diagnosing capabilities. It is also slower to stop than a car, and is really a large hunk of steel to transport when you are headed somewhere all by yourself.

I think to say that you reap the same benefits as a new car owner is a stretching things pretty far...after all, a brand new car doesn't command thirty thousand dollars for nothing, now, does it?
 
Collapsible columns have been the norm since the early 60's(62? Maybe earlier?) for most things. I don't view ABS as a positive in any way. I hate ABS. I suppose maybe it's a positive for someone who really can't drive. :) I admit I was thinking only of higher end/better equipped cars, but that's about all I see. The bare-bones ones all wind up as parts cars.

Bosch +4 Platinums, 9mm wires and a copper cored Accel cap took care of the tune-up needs probably for the rest of the truck's life, all for about the cost of a couple coil packs... But on that line one of the worst things that ever happened to cars was when Cadillac came up with that whole 100k between tune-ups thing. I can count on my fingers the number of vehicles I have bought in ten years that have not still had the factory ignition parts...some of them with 225k on the clock. Everybody decided they didn't ever have to do a tune-up again. Scary thing is, they still ran pretty well...(except Fords with that coil on the plug thing, whose bright idea was that?)
 
the price of gasoline is because of....

motor gasoline prices are a function of the EPA's fuel specifications, our nation's lack of an energy policy, OPEC, greenee-NIMBY-freaks who keep us from building more refineries or drilling in ANWR, and way too many of us who drive giant belchfire V-8-powered truckmobiles known affectionately as 'SUV's'

so by all means, go ahead and boycott the service stations and if enough of us do it, you can be sure that prices will fall - a phenomenon known as 'supply and demand'

certainly makes more sense than blaming George W, big oil, arabs, or anything else I have heard or read recently
 
the best of both - ride a motorcycle

I ride a big jap street bike to work - gets the fuel economy of a Honda Civic and spanks Z06 Vettes and Dodge Vipers.

SUVs are for wimps and girly men
 
First off, I thought this was a discussion about gas prices, not a debate between joe isuzu and mr. goodwrench about who's car is bigger, better, ect. Its retarded. And its all a matter of personal preference and need. SO WHO THE HELL CARES? Can we please get back to the topic at hand, and quit the car vs. suv crashtest BS!?
 
1 question...if supply and demand is one of the reasons for price hikes then can anyone tell me why gas is cheaper along a busy expressway where they will be selling much more gas as compared to rural areas? if there was a supply demand thing, wouldnt the price be more expensive or actually closer to some kinda average when its actually much less..im not complaining about it being cheaper, its nice somewhere it actually is but do find the whole supply/demand and shortage thing a bit odd.

20 miles away,out in boonieville nowhere,it jumps in price.back in the hurricane days there was a huge jump because of disruption of piplines or something, now,its right back up there,no new hurrican damage to the infrastructures yet it continues to climb again.more driving?I dont see more driving here,in fact, the stations seem relativly empty lately.warmer months equals more heating costs,dont think so.seems the only thing left is stock market speculation and the folks that buy and sell it,market it.
 
Nobody is holding a gun to your head and demanding you read it, Derius.

GDM, your example is reversed here. My little town has $2.70 a gallon gas. Up around Terre Haute I saw it at $2.95 yesterday(but was .22 lower at one station). Was $3.00 in Bloomington last weekend... Makes no sense at all.
 
Just before Wilma, gas down here had steadily climbed to near the $3 mark, and some mid-grade gas was there.

Then, when gasoline became very difficult to get due to failure of stations to have power, a few stations managed to remain open. I went to a station on the Florida Turnpike and bought premium for $2.58 per gallon.

I wonder what that was all about.
 
2ndammendment wrote:

Nobody is holding a gun to your head and demanding you read it, Derius.

No, thats true. But I am trying to participate in, or maybe read about the TOPIC IN THIS THREAD. If I wanted to read about 5 pages of car vs. suv, I would no doubt go to THAT THREAD.

It USED to be called hijacking a thread. It USED to be called OFF TOPIC.

It USED to be STOPPED....guess it just depends on who's doing it.....
 
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