I saw a funny thing that might help drive down gas prices if everyone in America did it. Some stuck a sticker on the gas pump I was using that said "Boycott if above $3.00". Granted if gas prices everywhere is above $3.00 then I can't boycott anything, but around here depending upon where you go you can see gas prices right now anywhere from $2.90 to $3.60 and even higher. I see people complain about gas prices, but they are still buying gas at stations selling at $3.60 and higher, when just a block over gas is selling at $3.50 or less. If we as American gas consumers drew a line in the sand and only went to those gas stations that sell gas cheaper then everywhere else, and boycotted the price gouging stations, competition will drive prices down. THERE IS NO OIL SHORTAGE!!! The only thing that is keeping gas prices high is corporate greed, the corporate assumption that people are use to paying higher prices after the Katrina shortage, and speculation regard China and India's booming economy. We got to start price wars. If your in a small town with two gas stations one selling gas at $3.00 and one selling at $2.99, and everyone at that town only went to the $2.99 station and boycotted the $3.00 station, what would happen??? That $3 station would start selling at $2.98. Then everyone goes there and boycott the other station until the drop their price below $2.98 and so on. In large towns and big cities you could call local radio talk shows or even Local TV News and tell them they should tell their listeners/viewers what the average cost of gas is in there listening area and to only go to gas stations with a price BELOW that average, and to let people know the top 5 or so cheapest places to buy gas in their area is (free advertisement for the good guys). In a week that average price would drop. Americans groaned but became compliant when gas went above $2.00 (national average) after Katrina. This is not a spike due to some shortage, this is a market pricing test. If we do nothing, get ready for a $3 national average for gasoline.
Gas Prices
- Thread starter Mikeyboy
- Start date
FirstFreedom
Moderator
*Sigh*. The free market will cause people to buy the gas that is $2.90, not $3.60 - a boycott is not needed. Supply & demand, free market, natural corrections, it'll all work out. People will consume less, go to more fuel-efficient cars, engage in more fuel-efficient routines & habits. All this talk about gov't intervention, boycotts, etc., is silly if you ask me. If there's proof of collusion among the competitors to set/influence prices, then by all means, let's sick Justice on them and fine them out the ying-yang, and/or shut them down under anti-trust laws. Otherwise, we need to just leave it be. P.S. Chuckie Schumer yesterday ranting about having congress pass some "anti-gouging" laws is yet more evidence of his plenary stupidity. I've been saying for years that a one-semester high school course on a free-market economy should be just as mandatory as the 3 R's - with the complimentary semester being a mandatory course in fundamental logic.
Last edited:
lol im not sure it would work that way
The other gas station will not sell at a loss simply to get customers. Retailers already operate on a disgustingly thin profit margin for gas. Not to mention the fact that some people will continue to buy from their particular brand because their vehicle runs better on the particular blend of additives and detergents. For example, there's a Speedway that sells gas for about two cents cheaper than the Shell nearby but my truck runs better on Shell gas than anything else and thus I will continue to buy Shell. Not only does the engine feel more responsive but I see a 2mpg average increase in Shell over Speedway and BP/Amoco.
I will also refuse to buy ghetto gas. I'm not putting Marathon or Joe-Bob's Refyulin' Hut swill in my truck.
What the word on those anti gouging laws? The last I heard the biggest problem with them was that they only limited the retailers that work on single digit profit margins as opposed to the oil companies that operate on triple digit margins.
invention_45
New member
What you'll also find is that when the bulk of people switch to the $2.99 station, there will be lots of people who'll pay $3 because they can get in and out faster. The lose money waiting in line.
In other words, there are a lot of factors involved in how we choose where we shop. Price is one. How long I want to be standing in a particular neighborhood is another. Whether I perceive my car runs better on a particular brand is yet another.
Don't get me wrong. I would like to drive down the prices as well. But I don't think a boycott would work.
In other words, there are a lot of factors involved in how we choose where we shop. Price is one. How long I want to be standing in a particular neighborhood is another. Whether I perceive my car runs better on a particular brand is yet another.
Don't get me wrong. I would like to drive down the prices as well. But I don't think a boycott would work.
Wow my fit of frustration/rally cry fell on deaf ears. I wish I had customers like you guys. You understand high gas prices will bring any boom in the economy, real or preceived, to a grinding halt. like in the 1970's inflation is just around the corner. Politics aside Democrats AND REPUBLICANS are both seeking to pursue windfall tax against oil companies. Bush just had a speech on gas price gouging (see http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/25/D8H72NF00.html). It is real. This is not a low supply/ high demand spike like Katrina this will be all summer and the current prices are just the start of the uphill climb.
Americans cannot just decide to consume less within the course of a few days. True you can engage in fuel efficient habits like driving slower (national speed limit my drop back to 55mph, the 70's gas crisis created that law), stopping "Jack rabbit starts", driving with the tailgate down, etc, but that will shave only a fraction of your overall cost. Go to more full efficient cars however is crazy, with the exception of the Toyota Pirus(40mph) hybrid vehicles are an expensive pipe dream that will only save you a few MPH over a regular 4 cyl engine. Honestly with the exception a few gas guzzlers (Hummers, high end sports cars) most vehicles get similar gas mileage according to size. This isn't the 1970's when everyone switch from big gas guzzling american cars that got 5 to 10mph to foriegn cars that got better gas mileage, today most cars get similar gas mileage so there is no where to go.
When gas price reach $4 a gallon are people still going to stick with a certain brand of gas, what about $5 and $6? Sorry to laugh about the brand thing but 99.9% of all gasoline is exactly the same regardless of brand. The .1% is the additive formulation each company says they put in. The majority of gasoline US consumers use comes from the same pipeline that spiders out from the Gulf coast. Exxon/Shell/BP/Hess and your mom and pop cheapy store gets the same gas that comes down that pipe. (see AZ pipeline story here http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special44/articles/0819gas-main19.html ). You see Costco (not the same as the wholesale store) and Conoco/phillips owns the pipelines not Exxon/shell/etc. See http://www.conocophillipspipeline.com/index.htmWatch for info or watch History Channels Modern Marvels episode on fuel and pipelines. Moral of the story is all gas is essentially the same. If it makes you feel better to buy a certain brand even though it cost more, its your loss.
Americans cannot just decide to consume less within the course of a few days. True you can engage in fuel efficient habits like driving slower (national speed limit my drop back to 55mph, the 70's gas crisis created that law), stopping "Jack rabbit starts", driving with the tailgate down, etc, but that will shave only a fraction of your overall cost. Go to more full efficient cars however is crazy, with the exception of the Toyota Pirus(40mph) hybrid vehicles are an expensive pipe dream that will only save you a few MPH over a regular 4 cyl engine. Honestly with the exception a few gas guzzlers (Hummers, high end sports cars) most vehicles get similar gas mileage according to size. This isn't the 1970's when everyone switch from big gas guzzling american cars that got 5 to 10mph to foriegn cars that got better gas mileage, today most cars get similar gas mileage so there is no where to go.
When gas price reach $4 a gallon are people still going to stick with a certain brand of gas, what about $5 and $6? Sorry to laugh about the brand thing but 99.9% of all gasoline is exactly the same regardless of brand. The .1% is the additive formulation each company says they put in. The majority of gasoline US consumers use comes from the same pipeline that spiders out from the Gulf coast. Exxon/Shell/BP/Hess and your mom and pop cheapy store gets the same gas that comes down that pipe. (see AZ pipeline story here http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special44/articles/0819gas-main19.html ). You see Costco (not the same as the wholesale store) and Conoco/phillips owns the pipelines not Exxon/shell/etc. See http://www.conocophillipspipeline.com/index.htmWatch for info or watch History Channels Modern Marvels episode on fuel and pipelines. Moral of the story is all gas is essentially the same. If it makes you feel better to buy a certain brand even though it cost more, its your loss.
will actually decrease fuel efficiency. wind tunnel tests have shown that the drag coefficient of a truck is increased ever so slightly by dropping the tailgate. plus, in many municipalities it's grounds for a moving violation because it obscures the license plate.
very, very untrue. gas suppliers use different additives and detergents, many of them proprietary and many of them having different effects on different types of vehicles. for example my turbo 240 will knock on 93 octane from Shell but not BP/Amoco. quite a bit more than .1% of fuel's volume is made up by those additives.
as far as costing more, a few cents per gallon doesn't make that much of a difference. in that same sense buying gas at station that's a few cents cheaper will not cause an overall drop in pricing. it doesn't work that way. talk to the owner of any gas station and ask him why his prices change the way they do.
A friend of mine and I did a little research on crude oil prices in 1998. Roughly, the price per barrel of crude was $9. At the same time, the price per gallon of gas was roughly $0.90 (anywhere from .87-.97 IIRC). So for the sake of easy math, I rounded to .90. So that leaves a 10:1 ratio of price per barrel to price per gallon.
Now, if you apply that ratio to today's market, how much should a gallon cost if crude is selling for $75 per barrel?
Also try a little research into what other countries pay per gallon. A relative in Italy reports over $6 per gallon. Listening to the radio the other day, I heard that we rank in the top ten in price per gallon. The best was Venezuela I believe at .19 per gallon. The worst was some mid-Euro country at over $6.70 per gallon.
Now, if you apply that ratio to today's market, how much should a gallon cost if crude is selling for $75 per barrel?
Also try a little research into what other countries pay per gallon. A relative in Italy reports over $6 per gallon. Listening to the radio the other day, I heard that we rank in the top ten in price per gallon. The best was Venezuela I believe at .19 per gallon. The worst was some mid-Euro country at over $6.70 per gallon.
I find this to be untrue. I work midnights, and I see the fuel trucks come and go. Want to know something? Regardless of brand, out of the 8 stations in my little town, all eight of them get the fuel from the exact same truck, from the exact same resevoir. Of these eight stores, there are 6 different "brands" of gas company.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
1. Bush "speech" on gouging? - ha! Believe me, that's all it is, is a speech - nothing but hollow lip service. Nothing by him will be done. As it happens, nothing *should* be done, even though Bush is a choad.
2. No, you're right that it's NOT a very temporary spike like after Katrina, but you're wrong if you mean to imply that it's not merely simple supply and demand that is causing this shift. It still is probably *relatively* temporary, but whether it is or it isn't, it is most certainly simple market forces. Unless you're claiming a cartel/oligarchy/conspiracy/collusion/price-setting among these dog-eat-dog cutthroat price competitors for your gasoline dollar - are you? Besides, less fuel consumption that will result from all this (hybrid cars, younameit) will benefit the environment by cutting down on emissions. Anyone living on the coast who doesn't want their real estate to be submerged outta be celebrating these high gas prices - the glaciers, they are a'melting!
3. Windfall tax - how absurd of an idea is that? So we're going to tax any business that has extremely high profit margins until their profit margins are back down in line with other industries? Talk about a disincentive to earn money and thus grow the economy! And Why? In less time than you can pass and implement the tax, the market will correct the problem by inviting more investment into the industry, due to the higher profit margins to be had, *IF* in fact their margins of profit are extraordinarily high, which they are not.
Silly rabbits, please, I'm beggin' ya, take a class in capitalism, or do some self-study - the free market is amazingly efficient at self-correcting problems such as this - if there's collusion/price-setting, or a monopoly, then whole different story. But that's not the case here.
2. No, you're right that it's NOT a very temporary spike like after Katrina, but you're wrong if you mean to imply that it's not merely simple supply and demand that is causing this shift. It still is probably *relatively* temporary, but whether it is or it isn't, it is most certainly simple market forces. Unless you're claiming a cartel/oligarchy/conspiracy/collusion/price-setting among these dog-eat-dog cutthroat price competitors for your gasoline dollar - are you? Besides, less fuel consumption that will result from all this (hybrid cars, younameit) will benefit the environment by cutting down on emissions. Anyone living on the coast who doesn't want their real estate to be submerged outta be celebrating these high gas prices - the glaciers, they are a'melting!
3. Windfall tax - how absurd of an idea is that? So we're going to tax any business that has extremely high profit margins until their profit margins are back down in line with other industries? Talk about a disincentive to earn money and thus grow the economy! And Why? In less time than you can pass and implement the tax, the market will correct the problem by inviting more investment into the industry, due to the higher profit margins to be had, *IF* in fact their margins of profit are extraordinarily high, which they are not.
Silly rabbits, please, I'm beggin' ya, take a class in capitalism, or do some self-study - the free market is amazingly efficient at self-correcting problems such as this - if there's collusion/price-setting, or a monopoly, then whole different story. But that's not the case here.
leadcounsel
Moderator
The problem is MUCH larger than the price at the pumps
The other posters are right about supply and demand and the capital markets. Capitalism is generally efficient (unless there are monopolies and such). The margin of profit on gasoline is slim and that's why stores sell junkfood to make money. Boycotting is pointless because everyone needs oil and gas. It's what economists call an inelastic good, like milk, sugar, water, etc. You use the same amount regardless of whether times are lean or fat. Use barely fluctuates.
The price at the pumps is where we all see price fluctuation and we gripe, but look at the big picture. The DEEP problem is that the worlds oil reserves are being exhausted at an alarming rate. Currently the US uses most of the worlds oil, but other larger nations (eg China and India) are starting to consume more as they industrialize and mobilize their populations and become consumers of modern goods.
Next to clean water, oil is the most precious resource that man has.
Humans have been mass consuming oil as fuel, lubricants, additives in pesticides, fertilizers, plastics, concrete, you name it and oil does it. It helps grow our crops, lubricate our engines and tools, fuels combustion engines, mobilizes militaries and civilizations. All that for a "mere" $20 per barrel (in 2000), $50 a barrel (in 2004), and $75 a barrel (2006). Oil is the BEST return on investment in human history. A gallon of gasoline costs $3 today and replaces hundreds of man hours of work. It is extremely cheap and extremely efficient. Don't believe me? How far can you drive your vehicle on a gallon of gas for $3? 20 miles, 30, 40 miles? How long would it take you to physically push a vehicle that distance? Days? Maybe a week of 8 hour days? Think about trucking food and goods across a nation, or using earth moving equipment to build buildings, sailing boats or flying planes or running trains for travel or transporting goods; daily commuting, growing crops for a nation of 300 million, manufacturing goods, etc.
Cheap Oil has afforded us the luxuries unimaginable by other nations at any time in history. For almost nothing, we can travel anywhere in the world at any time, we have plentiful and inexpensive food from around the world, inexpensive buildings, plastics that are lightweight and last forever, we can move mountains of earth and construct buildings hundreds of feet tall.
Without oil modern civilization comes to a grinding halt. Less food and new goods, no way to transport the food or goods, no travel beyond where you can ride a bike or horse, few lubricants for machines, etc. A recipe for disaster.
There is a theory which is accepted by most geologists, scientists, and the like. It's called Hubberts Peak, nicknamed Peak Oil. The theory is simple. There is a finite amount of oil. Humans have been consuming it with greater demand with each year for less than a century. Fortunately, technology has allowed us to access and process oil at greater rates of production to meet demand and keep price low. As demand has increased worldwide, supply has increased to meet demand. Unfortunately, Hubberts Peak states that demand will outpace supply at the beginning of the 21st century. Oil will become harder to find and more expensive to pump (it's deeper and harder to get and remove, located at the depths of the ocean, in shale, etc.) at the same time that demand will increase (US demands have increased and other nations like China and India are evolving to use more oil too). As a result, cheap oil will dry up and oil prices will skyrocket. Oil is currently $75 a barrel and gasoline is $3/gallon. Many geologists and financial analysts believe that $100/barrel is very close and that $200 is around the corner which would place gasoline in the $8 per gallon range. While oil will never truly disappear, it will become so expensive that only the elite and the governments will have access to it.
It becomes very scary to think of the real world ramifications of the depletion of cheap oil. Warfare over resources have (and will) occur. Superpower Nations that depend on oil (the US, Europe, Russia, China, India) will begin (or continue depending on your slant) waring over the remaining supply. If you pay attention to world events you'll see hints of this happening. And, while I support the Iraq war and do believe that the war was in our national interest, I have to admit that PART of that interest is securing a foothold on the 2nd largest oil producing nation of the world. And, why are we still allied with Saudi Arabia when most of the 9/11 bombers were Saudis? Oil.
So far the theory of Peak Oil seems to be occuring before our eyes. The cost of a barrel of oil has trippled in the last 5 years. Most agree that sometime between NOW and the next 10-20 years by conservative estimates oil will be unobtainable for most people. It will just be too expensive.
Unlike the Y2K scare, the scare of bird flu, SARS, meteors, a nuclear attack, a biological attack, a chemical attack, etc. Peak Oil is a scientifically provable fact and an unavoidable inevitability.
The problem is that no amount of other technology or power source will occur soon enough to replace the 1) cheap 2) efficient 3) safe 4) widely available 5) easiliy transported 6) easily converted to energy 7) multiple purpose 8) convenient to use OIL. For example, let's assume that solar power is the next replacement. Converting solar energy to usable energy is VERY expensive, inefficient, not easy to transport, and doesn't generate the power to run jumbo jets, semi trucks, earthmoving equipment, etc. Let's say that the cost to use solar energy to replace oil for the same performance is $20 for solar energy vs. $3 for oil. Until Oil exceeds $20 there is no financial incentive to use solar. Once oil does exceed $20 then it's too late to develop solar energy.
I would strongly encourage others to make themselves aware of this situation. Unlike the other doomsday scenarios, this one is scientifically certain to occur in the next couple of decades and humans have currently no cheap alternative replacement for oil.
For more information check out these websites.
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
www.peakoil.com
http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
The other posters are right about supply and demand and the capital markets. Capitalism is generally efficient (unless there are monopolies and such). The margin of profit on gasoline is slim and that's why stores sell junkfood to make money. Boycotting is pointless because everyone needs oil and gas. It's what economists call an inelastic good, like milk, sugar, water, etc. You use the same amount regardless of whether times are lean or fat. Use barely fluctuates.
The price at the pumps is where we all see price fluctuation and we gripe, but look at the big picture. The DEEP problem is that the worlds oil reserves are being exhausted at an alarming rate. Currently the US uses most of the worlds oil, but other larger nations (eg China and India) are starting to consume more as they industrialize and mobilize their populations and become consumers of modern goods.
Next to clean water, oil is the most precious resource that man has.
Humans have been mass consuming oil as fuel, lubricants, additives in pesticides, fertilizers, plastics, concrete, you name it and oil does it. It helps grow our crops, lubricate our engines and tools, fuels combustion engines, mobilizes militaries and civilizations. All that for a "mere" $20 per barrel (in 2000), $50 a barrel (in 2004), and $75 a barrel (2006). Oil is the BEST return on investment in human history. A gallon of gasoline costs $3 today and replaces hundreds of man hours of work. It is extremely cheap and extremely efficient. Don't believe me? How far can you drive your vehicle on a gallon of gas for $3? 20 miles, 30, 40 miles? How long would it take you to physically push a vehicle that distance? Days? Maybe a week of 8 hour days? Think about trucking food and goods across a nation, or using earth moving equipment to build buildings, sailing boats or flying planes or running trains for travel or transporting goods; daily commuting, growing crops for a nation of 300 million, manufacturing goods, etc.
Cheap Oil has afforded us the luxuries unimaginable by other nations at any time in history. For almost nothing, we can travel anywhere in the world at any time, we have plentiful and inexpensive food from around the world, inexpensive buildings, plastics that are lightweight and last forever, we can move mountains of earth and construct buildings hundreds of feet tall.
Without oil modern civilization comes to a grinding halt. Less food and new goods, no way to transport the food or goods, no travel beyond where you can ride a bike or horse, few lubricants for machines, etc. A recipe for disaster.
There is a theory which is accepted by most geologists, scientists, and the like. It's called Hubberts Peak, nicknamed Peak Oil. The theory is simple. There is a finite amount of oil. Humans have been consuming it with greater demand with each year for less than a century. Fortunately, technology has allowed us to access and process oil at greater rates of production to meet demand and keep price low. As demand has increased worldwide, supply has increased to meet demand. Unfortunately, Hubberts Peak states that demand will outpace supply at the beginning of the 21st century. Oil will become harder to find and more expensive to pump (it's deeper and harder to get and remove, located at the depths of the ocean, in shale, etc.) at the same time that demand will increase (US demands have increased and other nations like China and India are evolving to use more oil too). As a result, cheap oil will dry up and oil prices will skyrocket. Oil is currently $75 a barrel and gasoline is $3/gallon. Many geologists and financial analysts believe that $100/barrel is very close and that $200 is around the corner which would place gasoline in the $8 per gallon range. While oil will never truly disappear, it will become so expensive that only the elite and the governments will have access to it.
It becomes very scary to think of the real world ramifications of the depletion of cheap oil. Warfare over resources have (and will) occur. Superpower Nations that depend on oil (the US, Europe, Russia, China, India) will begin (or continue depending on your slant) waring over the remaining supply. If you pay attention to world events you'll see hints of this happening. And, while I support the Iraq war and do believe that the war was in our national interest, I have to admit that PART of that interest is securing a foothold on the 2nd largest oil producing nation of the world. And, why are we still allied with Saudi Arabia when most of the 9/11 bombers were Saudis? Oil.
So far the theory of Peak Oil seems to be occuring before our eyes. The cost of a barrel of oil has trippled in the last 5 years. Most agree that sometime between NOW and the next 10-20 years by conservative estimates oil will be unobtainable for most people. It will just be too expensive.
Unlike the Y2K scare, the scare of bird flu, SARS, meteors, a nuclear attack, a biological attack, a chemical attack, etc. Peak Oil is a scientifically provable fact and an unavoidable inevitability.
The problem is that no amount of other technology or power source will occur soon enough to replace the 1) cheap 2) efficient 3) safe 4) widely available 5) easiliy transported 6) easily converted to energy 7) multiple purpose 8) convenient to use OIL. For example, let's assume that solar power is the next replacement. Converting solar energy to usable energy is VERY expensive, inefficient, not easy to transport, and doesn't generate the power to run jumbo jets, semi trucks, earthmoving equipment, etc. Let's say that the cost to use solar energy to replace oil for the same performance is $20 for solar energy vs. $3 for oil. Until Oil exceeds $20 there is no financial incentive to use solar. Once oil does exceed $20 then it's too late to develop solar energy.
I would strongly encourage others to make themselves aware of this situation. Unlike the other doomsday scenarios, this one is scientifically certain to occur in the next couple of decades and humans have currently no cheap alternative replacement for oil.
For more information check out these websites.
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
www.peakoil.com
http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
No free market here, capitalism is great with people who have standards/
morals, too a great degree we are losing that in many large corporations,
believe what you wish but our system is in trouble, we face a society
of rich and poor, no middle-class. Without the middle-class freedom will
be gone.
Redworm...sorry I'm quoting the History Channel show on that one...I'm looking for proof on the net now. Pipeline fuel is all the same. Octane and additive are added by the companies at it corresponding way stations. Do what you want, but mark my words we will see $4 a gallon for gas as a nation average buy july.
Dingdingdingding! We have a winner.....invention_45 said:
Redworm said:
Gasoline is not all the same. That is one reason why gas has shot through the roof: every metro area seems to have a different gov't mandated cocktail of oxygenates & such. Also, the particular producers have subly different formulations at times.Redworm said:
Note: I said producers, NOT retailers.
When you or I buy gas from BP, Exxon, Shell, or Joe Bob's, we have no idea which company actually produced the gas. BP or Amoco retailers will stock Shell or Marathon gas if they can get it cheaper than BP/Amoco gas. Joe Bob's gas out in the sticks may very well come from BP. It is a matter of which producer can supply which retailer at the best price.
I don't disagree gasoline is more expensive in European countries. This example is beat to death by the "eat your vegetables,there are poor starving children..." crowd. The truth is the cost of production for the Europeans is no higher than anywhere else. The high cost is driven by Government taxation. I don't want to, nor should I pay the rate of taxation inflicted by the Euros. on their people. This is not an attack on First at all, I hear this all the time from the petroleum industry's apologists.
New technologies are always expensive then decline in cost over a few decades if free enterprise is allowed to thrive.
Bro. Bush has suddenly got religion about gas prices..
normally I would say the free market would rein it in..but with the speculation about shortages it isnt going to happen till gasoline demand decreases where refineries are up to the brim on refined fuels. if I was Osama and wanted to put the nail in Dubyah's coffin...take out some refineries, pipelines and ports, make $3.00 look cheap.
Do I feel sorry for Dubyah...nope it has taken him from 2001 to 2006 to figure out that we need a national energy program.
normally I would say the free market would rein it in..but with the speculation about shortages it isnt going to happen till gasoline demand decreases where refineries are up to the brim on refined fuels. if I was Osama and wanted to put the nail in Dubyah's coffin...take out some refineries, pipelines and ports, make $3.00 look cheap.
Do I feel sorry for Dubyah...nope it has taken him from 2001 to 2006 to figure out that we need a national energy program.
I just bought a new bicycle $475.00, 0mpg 0smog, tune ups free 2-years, lifetime warranty. Helps keep my shootin legs strong 
To get to work and gather food, I drive a 4cyl 5 speed.
Gas has, and is only going up, and so will the cost of cars/suvs. I can't understand why people waste so much money on those gas gulping suvs.
Buy small cars, and BIG guns!
To get to work and gather food, I drive a 4cyl 5 speed.
Gas has, and is only going up, and so will the cost of cars/suvs. I can't understand why people waste so much money on those gas gulping suvs.
Buy small cars, and BIG guns!
leadcounsel
Moderator
Exactly how do you lead an active lifestyle with hobbies that require gear, do home improvements, move tools and lumber and building materials, transport several guns to the range, etc. on a bicycle or in a mini?
I've filled my evil SUV with camping gear, snowboarding gear, power tools, appliances, beds, furniture, lumber, sporting goods etc that would never fit in or on a car.
SUVs have a very practical role in society and frankly don't use much more gas than many cars. My old VW got 22 mpg. My V8 SUV gets 20mpg on average. Marginal difference.
Besides, I can fit more people and gear in one truck and enable carpooling much better whereas if people only had cars then it may require mutliple vehicles or roofracks, which add drag coefficient and reduce gas mileage to below my evil SUV.
SUVs aren't the problem. It's wasteful driving habits that are the problem. Everyerone contributes to the waste of oil, just in varying degrees. Most cars are only marginally less wasteful than most SUVs.
I've filled my evil SUV with camping gear, snowboarding gear, power tools, appliances, beds, furniture, lumber, sporting goods etc that would never fit in or on a car.
SUVs have a very practical role in society and frankly don't use much more gas than many cars. My old VW got 22 mpg. My V8 SUV gets 20mpg on average. Marginal difference.
Besides, I can fit more people and gear in one truck and enable carpooling much better whereas if people only had cars then it may require mutliple vehicles or roofracks, which add drag coefficient and reduce gas mileage to below my evil SUV.
SUVs aren't the problem. It's wasteful driving habits that are the problem. Everyerone contributes to the waste of oil, just in varying degrees. Most cars are only marginally less wasteful than most SUVs.