Gas & guns
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CarbineCaleb
New member
USP45usp - yep, I have an older Volvo (1998 S70) - it's fairly good sized, has a little 5 cylinder 2.6liter engine that still takes it 0-60 in around 9 secs, and it is EPA rated at 20/28mpg (conservative). Not as good as your Impala, but not too shabby for a 7 year old midsize based on a 12 year old design. But, if prices get well up into the $3 range and look like they're going to stay up there, I may look at something more frugal though.... that Civic I pictured is EPA rated at 32/38mpg. As the fuel prices climb higher, that mileage advantage translates into a greater dollar advantage.
Civics are a favorite of car thieves? Do "the fast and the furious" like to hot rod them or something?
Civics are a favorite of car thieves? Do "the fast and the furious" like to hot rod them or something?
CobrayCommando
Moderator
So many of them, they're hard to track if I recall correctly...
There is no need for left wing "big oil is out to screw us" conspiracy theorys.
Their are a bunch of market pressures causing gas to go up in price. China and India are competing a lot more for world oil, domestic supplies are kept off limits by crybaby liberals, same with building new refineries and nuclear plants. The threat to ME oil from terrorists is also a factor, and in Venezuela this Castro-wannabe nutcase Chavez is causing jitters.
Not to mention the 18.4 cents per gallon tax + whatever your state is charging:
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp
you can thank your elected representatives for that amount. If Bush were smart, he'd try to repeal that tax, his numbers would go up 20 points I'd imagine.
Their are a bunch of market pressures causing gas to go up in price. China and India are competing a lot more for world oil, domestic supplies are kept off limits by crybaby liberals, same with building new refineries and nuclear plants. The threat to ME oil from terrorists is also a factor, and in Venezuela this Castro-wannabe nutcase Chavez is causing jitters.
Not to mention the 18.4 cents per gallon tax + whatever your state is charging:
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp
you can thank your elected representatives for that amount. If Bush were smart, he'd try to repeal that tax, his numbers would go up 20 points I'd imagine.
I disagree 100%.
Mainly since "King Willy the First" of the left wing is mostly responsible for the price of imports of any flavor these days.
"Big oil out to screw us" takes the heat off of the real culprits. <- those that had it in their power to control a runaway "bubble" economy,,,,but chose not to for the sake of their public image.
Reagan tightend the USA belt.
Bush I continued the policies, but was hit with the unforeseen Gulf War expeditures, and was forced to raise taxes (the infamous "Read my lips" speech - which helped cost him the '92 election).
Clinton won and reaped the rewards of the previous 10 years of hard effort.
In 8 years he did nothing but fuel the balloon economy, knowing full well it would burst on itself some time after he was out of office. He recieved numerous warnings as early as 1998, that putting so much American cash in worldwide hands was an open invitation to a huge economic downturn, that would spiral down for the next decade.
The real reality here is that gas costs the same as it did a year & 2 ago. The dollars you pay for it with have declined in value,,,meaning you have to use more of them to pay for it with. <-- if that sounds like "infaltion" that's exactly what it is.... only the word "inflation" may as well be on the infamous list of words banned by the FCC.
Anyhow,,,
The leftists count on the immediate gratification mindset of today and the "fast food" mentality that permeates today's thinking to throw the focus off of th real problems. It's easy to point the finger at conglomerates and corporate greed, since on the surface it looks like that's what it is. The reality of the mess though, is that what we have now, was put in motion 7 to 8 years ago,,,not 7 or 8 days ago.
(that's why I believe the left 'needs' the conspiricy BS)
Clinton bungled the recovering economy of the 90's,,and left Bush II holding the bag.
CarbineCaleb
New member
Inflation a small part, raw materials the largest, excess profit-taking going on too
Well, while there has indeed been inflation, that doesn't nearly explain the current gas price (we'll use prehurricane to remove that effect). If you use the inflation calculator at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics: http://www.bls.gov/, you'll find that the prehurricane price of $2.60 for unleaded regular today equates to a ten years ago price (1995) price of $2.03. The average price of unleaded regular in 1995 though was only $1.15. (If you want to go the other direction, $1.15 in 1995 would be $1.47 today).
See: the DOE gasoline history page at: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/mer/pdf/pages/sec9_6.pdf
So the general rate of inflation doesn't come anywhere *near* explaining the price rises in gasoline. Inflation is only a *small* part of the answer.
The largest part of the answer is the rise in crude oil prices that I posted above. During this same period, crude oil prices have gone up from about $17 per barrel in 1995 to about $60 per barrel today:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...eum_marketing_monthly/current/pdf/pmmtab1.pdf
A 3.5x increase, and crude oil cost makes up about 54% of the final cost of gas:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/gasprices/FAQ.shtml#History
So, increase in raw materials prices is the biggest reason gas prices are up - nothing sinister about that. I will say though, that the oil companies aren't just angels - they have definitely been doing some serious profit taking as well, and are not just recovering costs. Exxon-Mobil has posted the highest profits of any Fortune 500 corporation for the last 2 years running:
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/fortune500/articles/0,15114,1049781,00.html
I went to the US Bureau of the Public Debt, and made a chart from their data, showing the progress of the US public debt, over the period you described, and also demarcated the transitions between leaders on it:
Hmmmm... the bare facts look a little bit different than you describe, eh? All 4 most recent presidents were running up the debt at roughly the same rate, with Clinton posting the lowest rates, and Bush II posting the highest.
Well, while there has indeed been inflation, that doesn't nearly explain the current gas price (we'll use prehurricane to remove that effect). If you use the inflation calculator at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics: http://www.bls.gov/, you'll find that the prehurricane price of $2.60 for unleaded regular today equates to a ten years ago price (1995) price of $2.03. The average price of unleaded regular in 1995 though was only $1.15. (If you want to go the other direction, $1.15 in 1995 would be $1.47 today).
See: the DOE gasoline history page at: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/mer/pdf/pages/sec9_6.pdf
So the general rate of inflation doesn't come anywhere *near* explaining the price rises in gasoline. Inflation is only a *small* part of the answer.
The largest part of the answer is the rise in crude oil prices that I posted above. During this same period, crude oil prices have gone up from about $17 per barrel in 1995 to about $60 per barrel today:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...eum_marketing_monthly/current/pdf/pmmtab1.pdf
A 3.5x increase, and crude oil cost makes up about 54% of the final cost of gas:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/gasprices/FAQ.shtml#History
So, increase in raw materials prices is the biggest reason gas prices are up - nothing sinister about that. I will say though, that the oil companies aren't just angels - they have definitely been doing some serious profit taking as well, and are not just recovering costs. Exxon-Mobil has posted the highest profits of any Fortune 500 corporation for the last 2 years running:
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/fortune500/articles/0,15114,1049781,00.html
Bush II is not the victim of past fiscal irresponsibility. Bush II is the *standard* of fiscal irresponsibility. He has made big increases in government spending while simultaneously making big decreases in government revenue. Both of those actions make a politician popular, but anyone who's ever done even a household budget knows that you cannot spend more and take in less at the same time. That deficit he's been running up at record rates *is* a legacy to be handed to the next president, and the one after that, ultimately though, it's not the presidents who need to pay, it's the people - that's our children.
I went to the US Bureau of the Public Debt, and made a chart from their data, showing the progress of the US public debt, over the period you described, and also demarcated the transitions between leaders on it:
Hmmmm... the bare facts look a little bit different than you describe, eh? All 4 most recent presidents were running up the debt at roughly the same rate, with Clinton posting the lowest rates, and Bush II posting the highest.
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3 weelin geezer
New member
Heres my view: There will be a lot less FAT americans if we can't afford gas anymore and have to resort to using bicycles or walking to get around like in asian countries.
CarbineCaleb
New member
ROFLMA!
And yep, as an aside, in traveling to various countries where people don't drive down the driveway to their mailbox, I have noticed smaller people.Well its hard to buy the oil companies are not making any money deal when you review the quarterly statements.
They are making profits off the people. How can you say they are making no money on fuel...lol
the gas they are refining today and the gas you bought today wasnt purchased at $70.00 dollars a barrel....and it was at the refinery before the hurricane.
"Since January 2002, Big Oil profits have tripled to $125 billion on sales of $1.5 trillion, according to Oppenheiomer & Co. analyst Fadel Gheit."
Exxon Mobil profits rose 32 percent in the second four months of 2005. That amounts to $7.6 billion for a company that is debt-free with $25 billion on hand.
British Petroleum profits are up 38 percent, $6.7 billion.
For Conoco Phillips, the numbers are 56 percent and $3 billion.
Gheit makes clear that not just Big Oil is awash in profits. The steady increase in the price of crude oil began in December 2003. Saudi Arabia now is taking in $208 million more per day than it was in November 2003.
And since many oil companies are buying back their shares, that's pushing up the price. Gheit notes:
"Bolstered by higher commodity prices, Exxon Mobil ended 2004 with record net income of $25.3 billion on sales of $291.2 billion. It continued to pile up money in the first quarter, saying Thursday that it earned $7.86 billion, or $1.22 a share. The company's robust earnings streak is leaving it with a mass of cash, and investors are beginning to wonder when they'll get a bigger piece of it.
If cash is king, then Exxon Mobil is Midas. The company has amassed $18.5 billion in cash and cash equivalents. Since it generated more than $28 billion in free cash flow last year, investors should expect the cash total to continue climbing in the quarters to come.
Exxon on Thursday did show that it's using some of that cash, saying that it'll boost its share buyback by $1 billion this quarter.
companies dont buy back stocks if they are not doing good
"Buoyed by high oil prices, Exxon Mobil had a record-breaking year in 2004, and Chairman and Chief Executive Lee R. Raymond shared in the company's success with a $38 million compensation package, the largest U.S. oil company said Wednesday.
at least the stockholders appreciate us
We the people are getting bent over.
They are making profits off the people. How can you say they are making no money on fuel...lol
the gas they are refining today and the gas you bought today wasnt purchased at $70.00 dollars a barrel....and it was at the refinery before the hurricane.
"Since January 2002, Big Oil profits have tripled to $125 billion on sales of $1.5 trillion, according to Oppenheiomer & Co. analyst Fadel Gheit."
Exxon Mobil profits rose 32 percent in the second four months of 2005. That amounts to $7.6 billion for a company that is debt-free with $25 billion on hand.
British Petroleum profits are up 38 percent, $6.7 billion.
For Conoco Phillips, the numbers are 56 percent and $3 billion.
Gheit makes clear that not just Big Oil is awash in profits. The steady increase in the price of crude oil began in December 2003. Saudi Arabia now is taking in $208 million more per day than it was in November 2003.
And since many oil companies are buying back their shares, that's pushing up the price. Gheit notes:
"Bolstered by higher commodity prices, Exxon Mobil ended 2004 with record net income of $25.3 billion on sales of $291.2 billion. It continued to pile up money in the first quarter, saying Thursday that it earned $7.86 billion, or $1.22 a share. The company's robust earnings streak is leaving it with a mass of cash, and investors are beginning to wonder when they'll get a bigger piece of it.
If cash is king, then Exxon Mobil is Midas. The company has amassed $18.5 billion in cash and cash equivalents. Since it generated more than $28 billion in free cash flow last year, investors should expect the cash total to continue climbing in the quarters to come.
Exxon on Thursday did show that it's using some of that cash, saying that it'll boost its share buyback by $1 billion this quarter.
companies dont buy back stocks if they are not doing good
"Buoyed by high oil prices, Exxon Mobil had a record-breaking year in 2004, and Chairman and Chief Executive Lee R. Raymond shared in the company's success with a $38 million compensation package, the largest U.S. oil company said Wednesday.
at least the stockholders appreciate us
We the people are getting bent over.
CarbineCaleb
New member
DOE estimates of world oil production - when will it be "over the hill"?
In case anyone is interested in projections... according to this article:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/plugs/plworld.html
... there is still a lot of uncertainty as to when production will peak (and subsequently decline)... because that depends not only on estimates of how much is out there in each form, but also on projections of world consumption. However, the DOE's best guesstimate currently seems to be around 2040 for production peaking. Here is a figure with 3 model curves for production, all based on an assumption of steady 2% growth in world demand. There are blue, red, green curves based on 3 statistically characterized estimates of total oil available - the mean estimate, and upper and lower bounds on that estimate placed at so-called 5% and 95% confidence levels.
In case anyone is interested in projections... according to this article:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/plugs/plworld.html
... there is still a lot of uncertainty as to when production will peak (and subsequently decline)... because that depends not only on estimates of how much is out there in each form, but also on projections of world consumption. However, the DOE's best guesstimate currently seems to be around 2040 for production peaking. Here is a figure with 3 model curves for production, all based on an assumption of steady 2% growth in world demand. There are blue, red, green curves based on 3 statistically characterized estimates of total oil available - the mean estimate, and upper and lower bounds on that estimate placed at so-called 5% and 95% confidence levels.
My view on this: Gas is a product no different than any other. Just because we all use it, doesn't mean its price should be regulated anymore than collectible baseball cards. They are offering a product at a certain price. Your options are either a) don't buy it, b) offer a lower price, c) buy it at the set price, d) go to a competitor, or e) open a competing company and sell gas at what you think is an appropriate price.
If they are selling gas at $6 a gallon, and people are dumb enough to pay for it, then I say they are good sales people.
And you don't get to complain how much it costs to fill up your full-size pickup with 50 gallon tanks to drive across town, or at least get no sympathy from me when you do.
If they are selling gas at $6 a gallon, and people are dumb enough to pay for it, then I say they are good sales people.
And you don't get to complain how much it costs to fill up your full-size pickup with 50 gallon tanks to drive across town, or at least get no sympathy from me when you do.
As a graduate with a degree from a Business College and some work done towards a masters in Business Administration, I beleive in a free market...
The question you should be asking is when is a free market a free market?
would you define what a free market is to you?
I say that there is a little or no economic competition in the oil and fuel markets and we do not not have workable fuel subtitutes. That comes pretty dern close to being a monopoly not free trade.
You could have fooled me, considering the left-wing socialistic things you've been stating.
There is plenty of competition in the oil business. The issue is, oil is a commodity, and increased demand (China and India), dumb liberal/left policies (no nuclear plants or refineries, no new drilling in USA), and instability (terrorism and Venezuela) is going to drive prices up. Someone with a degree in business should know that, it's basic economics 101. To blame prices on the oil companies for "price gouging" in the face of these supply and demand issues is nonsensical.
And to accuse oil companies of making money, when they're in business to make money, that doesn't strike me as an issue a free-market person would be bringing up. jefnvk has it exactly right - it's a pure supply and demand issue, and if they want to charge what the market will bear, then more power to them.
Guys,
We we (me and my family) plan to at least try and do something about it. Do some cutting back in the short term and in the long term replace our vehicles with better milage ones. Don't really know what I will do with my pickup as I need one but not very often. Probably just keep what I have one only use it as needed. Just sits most of the time now. Replace our comuter car with an econobox and wait for the hybrid or diesel minivans to come out. Too many kids to get along with out a minivan. I can't control the price of gas but I will try to support car companies that make a better vehicle. I would ride a bike or scooter to work but my wife currently considers them too dangerous, again do to us having 3 small kids.
p230
We we (me and my family) plan to at least try and do something about it. Do some cutting back in the short term and in the long term replace our vehicles with better milage ones. Don't really know what I will do with my pickup as I need one but not very often. Probably just keep what I have one only use it as needed. Just sits most of the time now. Replace our comuter car with an econobox and wait for the hybrid or diesel minivans to come out. Too many kids to get along with out a minivan. I can't control the price of gas but I will try to support car companies that make a better vehicle. I would ride a bike or scooter to work but my wife currently considers them too dangerous, again do to us having 3 small kids.
p230