Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
The one thing I have thought about: They have the advantage of not caring about taking a life.
Gangbangers?
- Thread starter Crow61
- Start date
The one thing I have thought about: They have the advantage of not caring about taking a life.
tackdriver
New member
I write about courts and cops for a living. Where I work, we are seeing an increase in gang violence.
Here is what I see:
1. People are too quick to dismiss gang members as "just kids." When someone wearing a red hat shoots at someone with a blue hat, he's a gangbanger and I treat him the same way I would treat a mama Grizzly bear. I don't care how old he is.
2. The "shoot for effect" thing is right on. One guy unloaded 15 rounds into a house in a driveby and only hit THE HOUSE five times. Where did the other 10 bullets go? Another hit a cabbie in the head in crossfire trying to shoot rival gang members. They might not hit what they're aiming at, but it makes them more dangerous, IMHO.
3. Getting a gun is easy, even for kids 12-15.
4. It's exactly right that shooting someone from 10 feet doesn't take as much skill as one might expect. In another incident, a guy shot a gas station clerk. First shot went wide. Second hit the guy in the forehead.
5. Caliber debates we have on here are the biggest, dumbest waste of time: In 8 years, I have seen people killed with a .25 auto up to a .45 acp. I have seen people wounded (and permanently disabled, mind you) with a .380 and a .40 S&W to the head. In the .45 acp killing, the woman had a contact wound and the bullet still did not exit her head. Saw the same thing with a male victim and a .38 spl, where the guy got up and started walking around and only died because he bled out.
Here is what I see:
1. People are too quick to dismiss gang members as "just kids." When someone wearing a red hat shoots at someone with a blue hat, he's a gangbanger and I treat him the same way I would treat a mama Grizzly bear. I don't care how old he is.
2. The "shoot for effect" thing is right on. One guy unloaded 15 rounds into a house in a driveby and only hit THE HOUSE five times. Where did the other 10 bullets go? Another hit a cabbie in the head in crossfire trying to shoot rival gang members. They might not hit what they're aiming at, but it makes them more dangerous, IMHO.
3. Getting a gun is easy, even for kids 12-15.
4. It's exactly right that shooting someone from 10 feet doesn't take as much skill as one might expect. In another incident, a guy shot a gas station clerk. First shot went wide. Second hit the guy in the forehead.
5. Caliber debates we have on here are the biggest, dumbest waste of time: In 8 years, I have seen people killed with a .25 auto up to a .45 acp. I have seen people wounded (and permanently disabled, mind you) with a .380 and a .40 S&W to the head. In the .45 acp killing, the woman had a contact wound and the bullet still did not exit her head. Saw the same thing with a male victim and a .38 spl, where the guy got up and started walking around and only died because he bled out.
What does that mean? These clowns can claim anything, but what does that mean? That they're so good that they allegedly can just point shoot?
Uh huh. I think that study is a lot of hot air, if you actually consider what these jerks are saying. About the only thing relevant is that many of them apparently have shot people before.
Edward429451
Moderator
I'm more intimidated of LEO's than gangbangers ! They seem to always want my family's money and have radios.
+1
A lone bager doesn't intimidate me in the least. They're at my outdoor range a lot. Demeanor & body language tells you everything. A crowd of bangers may make me want to clear out of the area, mob mentality. Even if you can spot the leaders, the odds are still grim. Better to slip quietly away.
+1
A lone bager doesn't intimidate me in the least. They're at my outdoor range a lot. Demeanor & body language tells you everything. A crowd of bangers may make me want to clear out of the area, mob mentality. Even if you can spot the leaders, the odds are still grim. Better to slip quietly away.
I have read articles recently that would suggest that more and more criminals are indeed practicing with their weapons. Not to mention, as has been previously stated in this thread, the number of military memebrs who are returning to their premilitary criminal ways with all of that combat experience weapons training. The show "Gangland" on the History channel just did a show about gangs in the military and they showed a security video of a "gangbanger" in a shootout with the cops in Ceres, CA. The "gangbanger" was displaying proper grip on his weapon and employing effective use of cover and concealment and he ended up out manuevering and effectively pininng down 2 cops while his buddies made their escape.
Independence
Inactive
The thug or the gun?
Since they don't travel alone in this here neck of the woods, <deleted> seldom do anywhere it seems, the real scary thing is having a Chebbyload of them each emptying a Glock mag in you and your family's direction. That is a lot of spray and pray firepower and you have that damn odds thing working against you.
Gotta use your brain as much as possible and steer clear. Then again we had another home invasion up here over the weekend. Seems like a new hobby for these punks.
Regards.
Gotta use your brain as much as possible and steer clear. Then again we had another home invasion up here over the weekend. Seems like a new hobby for these punks.
Regards.
Last edited by a moderator:
Today's news:
Ronney "Venezuela" Vargas was gunned down about 3:30 a.m. Saturday after the dispute with a group of men who fled the scene in a white car.
Police say the 20-year-old Vargas was shot once in the torso. The three-time Golden Gloves champion was pronounced dead at the hospital.
"He had a future," said his distraught father, German Vargas, according to the New York Daily News report. "They didn't just kill a boxer, they killed a champ."
According to the Daily News report, Vargas was pistol-whipped and then shot after the men became enraged when they noticed Vargas chatting with their girlfriends.
"It was a dispute over some females," a police source told the Daily News. "He talked to the wrong girls, and the boyfriend didn't like it. It was senseless. Stupid."
Hard to beat the odds when they are stacked against you.
Ronney "Venezuela" Vargas was gunned down about 3:30 a.m. Saturday after the dispute with a group of men who fled the scene in a white car.
Police say the 20-year-old Vargas was shot once in the torso. The three-time Golden Gloves champion was pronounced dead at the hospital.
"He had a future," said his distraught father, German Vargas, according to the New York Daily News report. "They didn't just kill a boxer, they killed a champ."
According to the Daily News report, Vargas was pistol-whipped and then shot after the men became enraged when they noticed Vargas chatting with their girlfriends.
"It was a dispute over some females," a police source told the Daily News. "He talked to the wrong girls, and the boyfriend didn't like it. It was senseless. Stupid."
Hard to beat the odds when they are stacked against you.
The Tourist
Moderator
I live in a small bedroom community outside of Madison, Wisconsin. We have had a large influx of drug crime, guns in schools, guys ridin' four, guys with nine cell phones, lower rent apartment complexes becoming crime havens, you know the obvious and the trend.
Our bangers are what I call "the second string." And that has pretty much been the case here since the early 1970's. We don't get the really tough, professional thugs. We get the incompetent guys who cannot survive in Chicago. Or we get the wannabees who run errands for the truly bad guys.
For example, an Hispanic gang left a tag on a then recently closed restaurant in our East Towne Mall area. The owner was trying to sell/rent the building to someone else, so he painted over the tag. There has been no more graffiti, or a replacement tag on the building now in almost one year.
Yikes, in some places you can get shot for painting over a gang symbol.
Our losers don't confront cops, bikers, business owners, or anyone else they think is armed or will report them. They hang in the darker shadows of the corners of major stores' parking lots.
If I was project a firefight in our city, I would opine that it will be an angry citizen shooting a "banger" on the first area encounter, and not the other way around.
(BTW, several years ago our drug selling bangers were using the telephone and lobby of our library for dealing. A female worker, alone, tossed them out. They went across the street to the park, and the beat cop tossed them out.)
Our bangers are what I call "the second string." And that has pretty much been the case here since the early 1970's. We don't get the really tough, professional thugs. We get the incompetent guys who cannot survive in Chicago. Or we get the wannabees who run errands for the truly bad guys.
For example, an Hispanic gang left a tag on a then recently closed restaurant in our East Towne Mall area. The owner was trying to sell/rent the building to someone else, so he painted over the tag. There has been no more graffiti, or a replacement tag on the building now in almost one year.
Yikes, in some places you can get shot for painting over a gang symbol.
Our losers don't confront cops, bikers, business owners, or anyone else they think is armed or will report them. They hang in the darker shadows of the corners of major stores' parking lots.
If I was project a firefight in our city, I would opine that it will be an angry citizen shooting a "banger" on the first area encounter, and not the other way around.
(BTW, several years ago our drug selling bangers were using the telephone and lobby of our library for dealing. A female worker, alone, tossed them out. They went across the street to the park, and the beat cop tossed them out.)
Tourist-
My area used to be a lot like that. All of the "gangstas" were what we thought were the "2nd string" or they were little white kids playing wannabe. But be forewarned, we found out that the "2nd string" was more like the "expeditionary force" or the "recon scouts" if you will. We are now drowning in big time Chicago gangsters who came up here to dominate the once wide open drug market, and the violent crime in this area has increased tenfold in the last five years. So be warned, this is what is coming, start pressuring your local LAWE to get on the stick or you may experience similar results
My area used to be a lot like that. All of the "gangstas" were what we thought were the "2nd string" or they were little white kids playing wannabe. But be forewarned, we found out that the "2nd string" was more like the "expeditionary force" or the "recon scouts" if you will. We are now drowning in big time Chicago gangsters who came up here to dominate the once wide open drug market, and the violent crime in this area has increased tenfold in the last five years. So be warned, this is what is coming, start pressuring your local LAWE to get on the stick or you may experience similar results
The Tourist
Moderator
Borch, I do hope you are wrong. The only solace I take from this condition is the time frame this has taken.
As I mentioned, this situation started in the early 1970's. There really is only one bad area in Madison, and they bulldozed much of that housing. They're going to close another complex when the Madison City Council approved the move about two weeks ago.
(The idiots were stupid enough to open a ribs restaurant across the street from my club's old tavern. It went bankrupt and moved.)
I don't think the Madison area (and outlying towns) are fertile ground for this type of crime. Yes, we have pockets, but we're more the area for falafels and aroma therapy shops.
I was headed east one afternoon when a car riding-four left the Madison city limits. They weren't one hundred yards into the Sun Prairie town limits when a County Sheriff pulled them over.
Granted, bangers aren't the brightest criminals in the pyramid, but it's been +30 years and they still don't have enough revenue to buy those fancy cars you see on cop shows.
As I mentioned, this situation started in the early 1970's. There really is only one bad area in Madison, and they bulldozed much of that housing. They're going to close another complex when the Madison City Council approved the move about two weeks ago.
(The idiots were stupid enough to open a ribs restaurant across the street from my club's old tavern. It went bankrupt and moved.)
I don't think the Madison area (and outlying towns) are fertile ground for this type of crime. Yes, we have pockets, but we're more the area for falafels and aroma therapy shops.
I was headed east one afternoon when a car riding-four left the Madison city limits. They weren't one hundred yards into the Sun Prairie town limits when a County Sheriff pulled them over.
Granted, bangers aren't the brightest criminals in the pyramid, but it's been +30 years and they still don't have enough revenue to buy those fancy cars you see on cop shows.
Not only do they not have fancy cars with the big money they make peddling drugs, etc. but they still live at home wit mama.
My wife taught in the inner city for ten years (1/3 black, 1/3 white trash, 1/3 everything else). She carried a 300KV stun gun with her at all times just in case. The funny thing was / is that the kids actually respected her for wanting to help them learn - she is very dedicated. The main beef with the kids was with the administration who just wanted them in and out of the school and didn't care what they did next - yes, the admin staff was white. Go figure.
Now she is in an all white school where the kids are way more disrespectful, the teaching not very cohesive and the admin more worried about building new fancy schools. She hates it there and is thinking of just quitting whereas she never felt that way at the slum school. Quite a paradox.
My wife taught in the inner city for ten years (1/3 black, 1/3 white trash, 1/3 everything else). She carried a 300KV stun gun with her at all times just in case. The funny thing was / is that the kids actually respected her for wanting to help them learn - she is very dedicated. The main beef with the kids was with the administration who just wanted them in and out of the school and didn't care what they did next - yes, the admin staff was white. Go figure.
Now she is in an all white school where the kids are way more disrespectful, the teaching not very cohesive and the admin more worried about building new fancy schools. She hates it there and is thinking of just quitting whereas she never felt that way at the slum school. Quite a paradox.
The Tourist
Moderator
Borch, the one concern I have about our local issues is the the one word you used..."pattern."
If this is a way that big city gangs infiltrate an area, our experience could only mean the current breed of second string bangers are just incompetent, even for a street gang.
If that is true, and your depiction is right, then sooner or later a big wig from Chicago is going to re-populate the crop of idiots we have now with tougher and more efficient drug dealers.
Granted, there will be a period of "adjustment" while local gangs, Hispanic gangs, Asian gangs and Sicilians fight over the dirty little crown.
And as entertaining as that might be, we all know the answer to that scenario:
A tough, successful, connected under-boss from Chicago will bring big city crime to Madison, so entrenched that any action of our local PD will be too little too late.
If this is a way that big city gangs infiltrate an area, our experience could only mean the current breed of second string bangers are just incompetent, even for a street gang.
If that is true, and your depiction is right, then sooner or later a big wig from Chicago is going to re-populate the crop of idiots we have now with tougher and more efficient drug dealers.
Granted, there will be a period of "adjustment" while local gangs, Hispanic gangs, Asian gangs and Sicilians fight over the dirty little crown.
And as entertaining as that might be, we all know the answer to that scenario:
A tough, successful, connected under-boss from Chicago will bring big city crime to Madison, so entrenched that any action of our local PD will be too little too late.