Gang Initiation

Thad -

You bring up a marvelous point. Many states do not allow citizens to carry concealed weapons, while others require a person to go to the government and ask permission (permit system).

I will be the first to acknowledge that it is easy to be smug when you have the equipment, training, and ability.

This is my main beef with most national LEO organizations and every Cheif's association. The vast majority of rank and file officers support the citizen's right to carry and do not feel threatened by it, but the national organizations always oppose such laws.

I think this is mainly an approach taken by the directors and governing boards of said organizations whose job it is to lobby the government on behalf of its members. These are primarily labor organizatins, who tend to be liberal, and support the Klinton agenda.

However, even without my trusty sidearm, my trusty beast (k-9), the proper awareness of my surroundings, and general attitude about life would have allowed me to pull it off anyway. Of course, I don't live in Watts. Your experiences out there on the left coast may vary.

Patrick
 
Hey guys, I had no idea there was such a stimulating conversation going on. It is only when I am up at 3:00AM that I get to hit every thread.

and , Hi Jeff!

Now, What is this about putting my beloved Bersa in the same category as a lorcin? (recently pronounced Lorkin by a CNN pundit while drunk and claiming that he occassionaly carried in DC....) huh? fess up? Have you actually had a bad experience? I found my 383DA to function rather well will most HPs and Blasers (note, Jeff, they are different from blaZers.. BlaSers are a pre-fragmented self-defense round). I carried it for years when my budget was a little tighter (like highschool and college years.. not that I carried outside of my car in HS.. I went to college in Shangr--oops, I mean Vermont.).

BTW- before we discount FMJ .380s as not being suitable for more than denting marshmellos, a guy I took into custody a couple weeks ago had killed another guy with a .380 FMJ a few hours before, the round went through the sternum and out the victim's back. There were no powder burns on the victims clothes. The round was recovered in the victim's jacket.

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-Essayons
 
Rob-

Try taking a gun to HS today. A kid here in WI got expelled ( not suspended, expelled) for forgetting to take his shotgun out of his truck after duck hunting and taking it to school with him. Honest mistake. No one ever would have known had he not told a teacher. Honesty pays I guess huh? I always leave a shotgun in the truck during grouse season, but I have to take it out to go to school. Then go home & get it to go hunting after school. Wasted time. What a bunch of BS. Oh well.

Andy
 
This may sound like a stupid comment to all the LEO's out there and this is probably exactly what they don't want to hear but I've got an opinion/question to voice now that you're all on the topic of guns, cars, gangs, etc.

I live in the DC metro area and have heard quite a few stories about friends of friends being shot at in and around the beltway by young guys (possibly gang-bangers?). I never paid much attention to it until it happend to my sister a few years ago on 495 (Capital Beltway). She had two shots at the side of her jeep before she spun out of control and almost killed herself. My point is this, being a 'citizen' I understand it to be absolutly illegal to carry a firearm in my vehicle and never thought to do so until now. My logic is as such: I have never been arrested much less had my vehicle searched and therefore shouldn't fear being found that I have a concealed weapon until I use it at which time my life is in danger anyway and I'd rather face charges for possession or use then be found dead along the side of the road.

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There's no such thing as second place...only the first to lose!!
 
We've got two difference threads going one but:

I just rigged a pushkey safe hidden in my Jeep. I feel the same as the above sentiments, I have never been searched, but I have been shot at! Who should I fear more?

An associate of mine owns a gun store and sells Lorcin. He says they have a lifetime warranty and all you have to do is send them back if they fail. He says that he has _never_ had one come back and never heard of a misfire or malfunction or displeasure. My only problem is that they are bulky (and Fugly!). I don't own one, but have considered getting the 9mm as throw around gun (I think it is like $90 new).

thaddeus
 
Saying "Lorcin" to a gun person is like saying budweiser to a German Beer-meister. I have no first hadn experience with them. I can recomend the Intratec Pro-Tec .25 as a very cheap and reliable gun. Also, it seems that a lot of people are having good luck with Makarovs in .380.
Certainly, if you are looking for the ultimate in reliability, get yourself a used .38 with a 2 in barrel. That'd be great for leaving in the jeep safe.
 
Skeetman -
Not sure why you think it is 'absolutely illegal' to carry a handgun in your vehicle. It is perfectly legal in Virginia, if you have a CCH permit. DC and MD ( home of Reichsfuhrer Glendenning :) ) are different.

Now of course VA permits do not apply in or on Federal property, among other places. SOOO, when on the GW Pkwy be CAREFUL since it is a federal road. Same with Mt Vernon. Get the picture? However 495 is not federal road, so you are safe there.





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Freedom is not Free
 
Jeff -
Good point on the tiny calibers. I have seen a .380 and a .32ACP go through a person and out the back. They were both just as dead as being shot with a .357. I suppose marksmanship counts afterall, eh?

Patrick

P.S. I personally wouldn't carry anything smaller than a .40 when I have a choice. Marksmanship may count, but accuracy and power together win the battle.
 
On the subject of calibers...having seen car doors stop 9mm and 45 from submachine guns, I do not expect lesser rounds to penetrate the boors or glass at an acute angle reliably. If somebody started firing at my car I would try to get low and drive away..The rear of the car ought to stop most rounds.

Having used smaller guns, I'd say that anything smaller than a Makarov has not been very reliable for me. Mak has been 100% for the 1000 rounds I put through. Walther PPK in .32 my GF got against my advice jams if mags have more than 5 rounds and lack of slide lock makes unjamming difficult.

I'd stick to revolvers for the "tiny" category.
 
Cornered Rat: Couldn't agree more on the Makarov. I bought one in 9x19 for about $140 a few years ago to give to my son who was living unarmed in St. Louis, (not a good situation)and he kept telling me how well it shot and never malfunctioned. When I visited him we took it to a local range and I tried it out. It was so impressive I got one in .380 as soon as I returned home. I have used it as a knockabout car and truck gun for years and I shoot it fairly often just for fun. It has never failed to feed or fire with anything I put in it, and it groups about as well as any semi-auto I own. In short, I think the Mak is the best buy for the money on the market if you are looking for an inexpensive car gun. I should qualify that statement, I don't know what they go for now that Herr Klinton has banned their import.

I know the .380 and 9x19 aren't the hottest loads around, but either the .380 with HydraShoks or the 9mm with Gold Dots would be a whole lot better than throwing rocks, IMHO.
 
What a very stimulating thread - all strands of it.

I think of caliber selection as a progressive decision tree. Sure, we all (or at least most of us) know of one or more cases of people dying from .22 and .25 wounds, but the percentages are far lower than the one-(or 2)-shot-stops from a .45 ACP. I carry (sometimes) to MAXIMIZE my potential to come home that night and snuggle with my kids and wife. Every choice we make (caliber size, carry/don't carry, engage the perp/walk or drive away) directly influences our potential to do said snuggling. I try to always have the greatest potential for that that I can. I'll always take my .45 ACP along if at all possible. If not possible for concealment or availability reasons, then a .40 S&W. If that can't happen, then a 9mm, etc. I find I shoot my .45 ACP better than any of the others, so why go "down" the decison tree if I don't have to. That caliber can be concealed quite well in the compact versions (see Para-Ordnance for great options).

Now, I have to disagree with Andy on how not allowing HS students to have a shotgun in the trunk of his car is "BS" . While I use to love to go out at lunch with a good friend and shoot snakes for a couple of hours at the bayou, I also drank beer during those outings (a very poor choice). Point is this. While inconvenient to have to go home and get your firearm for a friendly outing and then take it back home, it decreases (not eliminates) the potential that - in a heated argument with a teacher or classmate - a kid who's been drinking at lunch might go to his vehicle and get his duck gun and come back to "make a point." Isolated case? Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the top portiuon of this thread filled with two groups of people arguing "this doesn't really happen does it" and "This (really) happened to me." As a clinical psychologist, I can tell you there is no age group of people more "copycat-like" than teenagers. Our last 2 years of HS shootings are no "accident." There is no realistic self-defense reason to have a duck gun in your trunk at school. Oh, we could spin off a truely far-fetched scenario (Red Dawn-like) but again the "potential" wouldn't warrant it. My two daughters (and your kids) are in more danger at school from the scenario I have painted above than from some any scenario conjured up to warrant them carrying a firearm.

I was wrong to have the .22 rifles in my trunk at school, and for drinking while driving and using the firearms. Thirty years ago, the problem was far less pronounced than today. Today, what was dangerous and inappropiate is now even more dangerous. Sad, but true.
 
Shooting1911-

Not being able to carry a gun to school is not what I was referring to. I agree with that because I know quite a few kids at school who shouldn't be allowed near a pocketknife. What I meant was the school expelling the student. No one would have even known had he not told a teacher once he realized that he had forgotten it. Like I said, it pays to be honest.

Andy
 
Here in Orlando, Florida, there was a bulletin distributed to the Orange County Public School districts' support offices regarding the headlight/initiation scenario as being legitimate. I figure the legend angle just gave the little bastards the idea to do it for real. I don't "flash" anyone - I reckon if it's fairly dark, then they KNOW their lights aren't on, whether it's deliberate or because of faulty wiring, bulb(s), etc. If someone is displaying obviously "unusual" behavior, then the last thing I want to do is interact with them (obviously I'm not LE). Also in the bulletin was a warning to AVOID checking public payphone coin-return bins for change, as druggies have taken to sticking USED NEEDLES inside!
 
one little word about calibers...

For myself (very new to shooting and still recoil-shy), it makes little sense to carry a caliber too large for me to shoot straight.

In that, my .32 is far more "effective" for me than a 9mm or .45 that I can't handle.

Hitting counts, doesn't it? :)
 
I think "against my advice" is fudging the fact a little. I knew that some PPKs are jammamatics. It did not stop me from being very much for the idea of Q getting one. I think I was trying to cover up my initial enthusiasm...and the gun does work fine with Fiocci ball ammo.

BTW, how is one supposed to clear jams in a PPK is side cannot be locked back...thus far we needed two people.

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If you believe in freedom and means of protecting it...you might be a gun nut.
http://ddb.com/RKBA
 
CR, I have one of them jammamatic Walthers. Its been back to Interarms twice, and has gotten better, seems fine with most JHPs, so I stick to corbon, STHPs, or Remington GS, but doesn't like S&B ball worth a damn. The lack of a slide lock is a pain, but I've found that I can clear stubborn jams by removing the slide in the prescribed manner (it is an easy pistol to field strip), and given that I've had a fair amount of practice, I can do it fairly quickly. It's a shame, as it's quite accurate, but by no stretch is this thing ready for carry duty though, until I do a bunch more testing. M2
 
Howdy, Q!!
Your "little word about calibers" is gospel! And I bet you knew that all along. (Just leadin' us down a primrose path... :) )

Started my wife shooting mild .38s in a big ole .357 (6" barrel) revolver. Went from there to a rather heavy Llama .380 and on to 9mm. Worked for her.

We didn't have a .22 or she would have started there. Neither of us has ever fired a .32. (Would like to try one.) She flat doesn't like my .45s!

She will shoot .357 Magnums in the big, heavy S&W, but neither of us like the .357 magnums in the small revolvers. Yep, size matters.

Welcome, Q!
 
I hate to be the one with bad news ,but, here
in Memphis we have had three people killed
and
one wounded from these gang drive ups.I
personaly flash would bees hoping to live
test my new super X.I havent had any bites
yet ,Ill keep my pole in the water.



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Mort, unfortunatly the numbers are true. And I was kidding about the pole in the water, I was wishfully thinking
 
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