Gang Attack on Transit Train

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"Advancing on Death"

threegun wrote:
In the fort hood shooting the bad guy was able to fend off hundreds of young soon to be soldiers confined in a small area. Why? Because no one wants to advance on death. It takes a special motivation or brain defect to do so.
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Well, I thank God that there do exist those who have that "special motivation". They are those who run toward the sound of guns, or into a burning building. That's why they're described with words like finest and bravest.

And I'm thinking of one particular group whose creed compels them to advance on death; they've often been accused of having a "brain defect" that causes them to act that way; perhaps that's why they're sometimes called "Uncle Sam's Misguided Children"!
 
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Because no one wants to advance on death. I takes a special motivation or brain defect to do so.
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In some cases, a fire cracker and pointing your finger might do the job. Once they hear what they think is shot's fired, they are not going to take a second look to see what gun your holding if any.
 
Well, I thank God that there do exist those who have that "special motivation". They are those who run toward the sound of guns, or into a burning building. That's why they're described with words like finest and bravest.

And I'm thinking of one particular group whose creed compels them to advance on death; they've often been accused of having a "brain defect" that causes them to act that way; perhaps that's why they're sometimes called "Uncle Sam's Misguided Children"!
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Agreed, Thank God for those brave men and women who have that special motivation be it for love of country or love of fellow citizens.

My brain defect comment was pointed at folks with actual defective brains or folks under the influence of narcotics or alcohol.
 
As for those thugs, . . . I'd have been in condition orange when I first laid eyes on the bunch, . . . would have covertly drawn, . . . and if I went down, . . . you can bet your last bippy there would have been a pile of MT .45 brass nearby, . . .
Knowing gang mentality, . . . there is most likely less than a 50/50 that I would have survived, . . . but if you gotta go, . . . take some of the opposition with you.
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Gotta go with Dwight on this one. With a 50/50 or so chance of survival as they approach me, especially if the wife's with me, it's game on, and Lord help me.
 
One thing most folks who do not ride subways seems to miss, your ability to get up and move to another car quickly; your ability to activate an emergency stop which can cause enough discombobulation to allow you to exit stage right quickly; most transit systems typically have a roving cop on board - activating an emergency stop gets his attention and that of the conductor immediately.

Soooooooooooo, there MIGHT be alternative strategies that can be employed besides looking at it as a banzai mission
 
Talked to a police officer (Detroit area) today about gangs. His comments:

"Gang members do not fear handguns, if I have to deal with them, I take the AR, the AR15 they respect."

Briefed him on the subway/train incident and asked him what he would have done had he been in plain clothes (off-duty) on the MARTA train.

"Don't know, can't say till I've lived thru it."
 
It's the language Threegun "dishing death" no buddy that has ever actually been there would talk like that
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It was an adjective Mnero. One I used to attempt to explain my point that few desire to advance on potential life ending danger. Especially while it is actively doing so. I used machine gun nest and you missed the point and focused on actual machine gun nests. So call it what you wish to call it just understand the point which is FEW PEOPLE RUN TOWARD MORTAL DANGER. That means MOST PEOPLE RUN FROM THAT DANGER. That means almost any gun will do for the situation in this thread.


BTW Most folks I know who have been there don't tell everybody every three seconds either
 
I haven't NO ONE EVER TOOK A SHOT AT ME or anything else military anyway, but I have seen the results and dishing out death aint no adjative; it is just a bunch of braggin from someone who has deluded himself into thinking he can handle any situation.
 
I haven't NO ONE EVER TOOK A SHOT AT ME or anything else military anyway, but I have seen the results and dishing out death aint no adjative; it is just a bunch of braggin from someone who has deluded himself into thinking he can handle any situation.
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I have made no such claims Mnero. I have however spent alot of time on tactical training and part of this training includes understanding the odds you are facing to make better decisions. You should try it.
 
I have, of course. I apologize for jumping on your expression, I disagree with your assesment, but I wasn't on that train.
 
Neither of us were on the train. Neither of us can predict the outcome of an event. We simply cannot predict how different reactions on our part would have changed the outcome. We can however make educated guesses on how an action will be reacted to.

In this example if I thought the badguys would make a determined assault on me even after I opened fire, I would have complied and suffered the beating. Beating being better than death.

You disagree with my assessment. So I assume you believe these guys would not have retreated?
 
Oh no, they may well have; I know I would! However; my primary concern is that many civilians may be hurt(it is hard to avoid collateral damage even when you can identify your target, here that could get difficult as civilians may panic and head towards you) and that the kids(the gang members) here may not be beyond redemption.
 
Oh no, they may well have; I know I would! However; my primary concern is that many civilians may be hurt(it is hard to avoid collateral damage even when you can identify your target, here that could get difficult as civilians may panic and head towards you) and that the kids(the gang members) here may not be beyond redemption.
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Our priorities are different I believe. My primary concern IN A LIFE OR DEATH STRUGGLE is for the safety and well being of my family at any and all costs including my death. My second concern is for my safety and well being. My third concern is for my fellow civilians and this only from collateral damage from my firearm.

I know that sounds selfish so be it. Its the truth. Sometimes the truth is hard to stomach.

example.......If your son and my son were swimming together and both began to drown. I could only save one. It would be mine.

Likewise if the choice was shoot and risk potential collateral damage or die.....I must shoot.
 
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A riot is one thing but a group of gang members are cowards that’s why the are in a group. One shot and everyone is running away.
If you keep your head, can get to your pistol and have good shot placement under stress, the resulting mess will demoralize these cowards, they will break and run.
You have to have the right gun. The willingness to spend the energy to train properly, constantly, to develop the mussel memory necessary to perform instantly under surprise and have the proper mental attitude to do what is necessary.
Being an instructor for some time now and studying countless after action reports, “gun fighter” vs. bad guy. And I use the term gun fighter as a joke. Most freeze and wet there pants.
I’m so tired of this bluster about “I would do this or that” be the hero, 99% of these, “going to be the hero“ types, don’t have the willingness to spend the energy to train properly, constantly, to develop the mussel memory necessary to perform instantly under stress.
I guarantee one correctly placed shot, (and I don’t mean hitting the innocent) in a timely manner will have these cowards tripping over each other to get the hell out of the way.
 
i have great mussel memory. i had clams last month at an italian place, oh, and oysters and beer a couple of weeks ago. seriously, doesn't anybody see that this occured on a moving subway with no place for anybody to go, good or bad? you're killing me smalls.
 
Be careful...

I have known of two such attacks where people I know were involved.
In both instances, the victim pulled his gun on the attackers and frightened no one. Attackers in groups are usually trying to prove themselves to one another, and if they feel fear they are many times unlikely to show it.
In the one instance, the victim shot one of his attackers and the attacker still persisted.
In the second instance, the victim was met with yells from the attackers to "Pull that s---!"
Luckily, in both cases, the victims got away, barely.
I urge you all to research the case of Gerald Ung, who, while wolf-packed by several bullies, showed his gun, and was forced to unload into one of the assailant's torso.
Had it not been for a security camera that captured the events leading up to the shooting, he would be in jail to this day, because it was the attackers' word against his.
I know... you'd rather be tried by a jury of 12 instead of carried by six, but what way is it to live 20 years in jail for defending yourself?
Just be careful and use good judgement.
 
Thank you Biff for the great illustration of the concept that people WILL advance upon a drawn gun. Not a smart move by any means, but who called some of these folks smart in the first place. Sorry to venture back again against my own word, but geez, how many cases do we need in REAL life to counter the fantasies of folks talking about blowing away 30 at a time that will some how magically run away at the mere sight of a gun. Take a look at the video for real dumb person just walking into a gun to do harm to the shooter. Cowards? No just dumb. The only defense is to avoid the situation in the first place if possible.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/Old_City_Shooting_01_17_10
 
Anyone who thinks, they could have made a positive contribution to this situation, with an armed confrontation is wasting his talents writing here! The police have openings in their swat teams, and if they don't the military is always looking for a 'few good men' quite a few these days. Stop telling us how well trained and tough you are and go prove it! To those who already are serving either in the police or the military; I admire you for your service and sacrivice, to the rest GET REAL!
 
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