Future of the .40 cal in Law Enforcement

M

microman

New member
Do you think there will ever be a switch away from the .40
in law enforcement in say the next 10 years?

As they did when they went from 9mm to .40 or is it still
going to dominate for years to come?
 
Much like the 9mm and .45 ACP, and perhaps much to some folks' dismay, I believe that the .40 S&W is here to stay.

It's acceptance among law enforcement will vary as different agencies and departments try different things, but I believe there will always be a place for the .40 S&W among their ranks.

Unlike many "new" cartridges that have been "invented" in modern times, the .40 S&W was well marketed, well timed, and filled (and still fills) a need.

Among several federal law enforcement officers I know (border patrol, ICE), none of them would be happy replacing their issued .40's with either .45's or 9mm's. They like what they're shooting.

Daryl
 
Last time I checked, the .40 Glock 22 is the most common LE issued handgun in the country at this time. I think it's pretty obvious that it's not going away. Whether or not it will stay the dominant caliber remains to be seen. Heck, when I entered LE back in the late 1980s, revolvers were still being issued here and there, though the auto was well on it's way to taking over. .38s and .357s ruled the roost at one point, and they fell by the wayside [well...for SOME people, anyhow:cool:]. Who knows....but if the .40 does get replaced, I can't see it being done by the .45 GAP or the .357 Sig!
 
Why do you ask about the 40 S&W?

Most of the officers I know are quite happy with the 40 S&W. The Feds use them. Only a few agencies use other calibers so I read. It was a well researched caliber and cartridge having many of the good attributes of the 9mm and 45 ACP. I was sold the day it hit the streets on its virtues over the 9mm and never really got into the 1911 45ACP thing.
 
Funny thing though...the very best 9mm+P loads from full-sized guns have become very impressive in their own right. This is a relatively recent development, like inside the last five years or so. And the very best (Winchester's 127 Ranger-T and Federal's 147 HST) have been marketed purely to law enforcement, with "excess" only recently showing up online in reasonable amounts. Buffalo Bore's white-hot loading of the 124gr Gold Dot is also in the running.

I'm beginning to suspect that if these loads had been available circa 1988-1992 when the 40 was being developed from the "10mm lite", they'd have all stuck with the 9 and been perfectly fine with it.
 
Would be very suprised if LE and federal agencies decided to switch in this economy. Now if we can only get the military on board with it on a large scale. (Save the socio-political and economic rant, I know the reasons against it. But a boy can dream...)
 
Is someone using the .40SW? I've been a cop for thirty years, and I've never pulled the trigger on a Glock or a .40SW. I read about them all the time but have no experience with either.

Some folks tell me that Glocks are good pistols and other folks tell me that the .40SW is a good cartridge. I've even heard the rumor that some folks have actually seen a Glock chambered in that mythical caliber.

I consider those rumors to be like Bigfoot, or zombies, or UFOs.
 
The USCG selected the P229R DAK .40S&W after rigorous and extensive testing. They ordered 12,000 SIG Sauer P229 .40 Caliber compact handguns to replace the Beretta M9 9mm PDW. Initial deliveries from Sig were made in Nov 2004. Previously, the CG was using the Beretta M9 9mm PDW. It's a great pistol - bought one for my CG son (for off-duty use), and one for me.

"For the Coast Guard, the handgun replacement ushers in a new era of ammunition available to the field commander. Ammunition selection will be based on operational mission, procuring .40 caliber ball ammunition for missions supporting DoD operations and .40 caliber hollow point (HP) ammunition for maritime law enforcement operations. .40 caliber frangible ammunition will also be procured to help meet Coast Guard environmental stewardship responsibilities. The variety of ammunition available will require more logistical oversight, but ultimately will provide the operational commander of the Coast Guard more flexibility in mission execution."
 
PDs, .40S&W use, .45acp .357sig....

As many large LE agencies buy or issue the .40S&W caliber, I highly doubt it will drop off or reduce any time soon.
With budget, procurement & training concerns, most PDs will keep what they have or use it up fully before they change.

To me, the .357sig is a lot better but many working cops like packing the big .45acp too(the Glock 21/30, the SIG P220, HK45, etc).
 
As many large LE agencies buy or issue the .40S&W caliber, I highly doubt it will drop off or reduce any time soon.
With budget, procurement & training concerns, most PDs will keep what they have or use it up fully before they change.

To me, the .357sig is a lot better but many working cops like packing the big .45acp too(the Glock 21/30, the SIG P220, HK45, etc).
Click to expand...


+1 lots of truths in that pot.
 
It's more than just budgets, marketing and popularity. All those things aside, what would they change to that's more effective? This is the latest data that I've found on one shot incapcitation:

.357 Mag 125 JHP (the yardstick by which all others are measured) is
609 shootings,
585 "Game Over" - 96%

The 9mm 115 gr JHP +P+ (by several other companies now).
162 Shoot
147 G.O. - 91%

357 Sig 125 JHP was hoped to produce great things, but it has not produced (albeit there hasn't been a bunch of data yet).
21 Shoots
19 G.O. - 91%

.40 S&W 165 gr Gold Saber
121 Shoots
114 G.O. - 94%

.45 ACP 230 gr Hydra-Shok
142 Shoots
136 G.O. - 96%

Although there isn't a lot of data on it (22 shoots that I could find) the .40 S&W 135 HP is supposedly even higher than the 165, at 96% G.O. Many don't trust the bullet because it doesn't have as good a record on car windshields, etc. I love my .45 and given the choice, I'd carry my custom P14 anywhere. Yet, not everyone can master a .45's recoil, and I carry a load in w/ 200 gr. HP (less recoil) that only rates the same as the .40. I would have no bones about carrying the .40 as it is the second most effective auto pistol round available.
 
I don't know if there's ever been a cartridge that has been so widely accepted in such a short time by police and civilians . A number of factors for it -
Getting something better than the 9mm .Before the Miami FBI shootout there were no criteria for bullet performance .The extra performance of the .40 made up for that.
For civilians there was a 10 round capacity limit so 10 .40s was better than 10 9mm.
For makers the .40 could be made in a typical 9mm platform.

In any case I've been shooting .40 since it came out and find it too close to the .45acp to see any difference.
 
The .40 is not going anywhere soon. The round is accepted, the pistols are accepted and the procurement channels with the multiple suppliers have been standardized. Departments that have issues with any one of these 3 can find an easy alternative without mucking with the other 2. In order for the .40 to loose favor with departments something would have to happen to make it loose favor with the feds. I just read something this morning about the Coast Guard switching from the Beretta 9 to a Sig 40.
 
The .40 will be around for quite some time, it is an excellent round over all.

That said, while on duty I always carry a .45 but I'm just one person and now all of LE.
 
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