Friend pulled gun on two guys.

i don't think i could move clothing, undo a thumb break, clear the weapon and aim it in time to keep someone off me if they're within hand-range.
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That, Sir, is why a J frame in the pocket is carried by many savy individuals. Being able to have your hand on your gun without the other party being aware it's there, and then being able to stick it in their ribs and fire it repeatedly has certain advantages.
 
Possible, but then they become a threat at that time.. It's a hard situation.

Really cant say yes or no because the body language of the punks probably made the guy draw... if they are making hand signals to each other, like a planning of an attack... but if they are just walking around me, I would walk away or atleast try to.. never turning my back to them though. hand in pocket or on iwb/owb... Might even undo safety at that time, if the gun i was packing had a safety, not drawing it though.. if these two idiots are just out trying to pimp a phone... then they can keep it.. move on to another phone.
 
OK - I see your point now, which does make sense - trying to totally diffuse/leave the situation, but being more ready just in case. Trying to avoid it totally makes sense; AND in this case I think he was OK too in having drawn (seems to 'a reasonable person' they left no doubt about what their intentions where).
 
Let's evaluate this objectively. He was confronted by two individuals who have the disparity of force on their side (size and numbers). These individuals make a threat and one of whom make an agressive movement to flank him.

I'd say the criteria is met for your frined to escalate the force required to take control of the situation. JM2CW.

Did he file a Police report? If not, tell him to do so ASAP because if those two scumbags were to file a report that some gun-toting psycho threatened them at gunpoint he's going to be in deep trouble.
 
Remember drawing a weapon should be the last option, when all escape routes are blocked!!! and your life is going to be stripped if you dont act.

Ofcourse this rule doesnt apply if youre at your house, drawing on an intruder that is 20 feet away is different than drawing on a possible mugger that is 20 feet away.
 
Remember drawing a weapon should be the last option, when all escape routes are blocked!!!
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This is my argument BC, when the fellow was flanked, his escape route went away.

Tell me, (and I'm serious, I want to learn) are there really such a thing as "Telephone Pimps" in Florida?
 
"If they have no weapon capable of reaching him and they are...20 feet away then they arent a threat.. just punks..

If they are within arms reach.. in your personal space, then thats a different story."
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BCougar . . .

And just how long will it take these TWO punks to cover 20 feet? Will this be enough time for a reasonable person to draw a weapon, acquire the target, and defeat the felon?
 
Xavier - your analysis is spot on correct.

To analyse every possible scenario in a situation which had an effect could turn mind numbing. In reality you will have miliseconds to react - and if not you could be toast.

So lets look at it strictly from how things turned out:

One - Nobody was shot.
Two - BG's ran away.
Three - GG got home safe.

So if you look at it from the end game analysis - everything went right. The person who drew the gun showed force, just enough to avert a potentially bad situation.

If said person retreated (who is to say there were only 2 of them - a third punk could be sneaking up behind you as you keep your eye on the 2 in front of you) and got cornered into his malfunctioning car, and drew his weapon when the BG's were on him - he would have had to shoot them or got his gun taken away - BAD situation.

Sometimes and in this particular case, your instincts or gut feeling when properly honned, is probably the best indicator of when to draw your weapon. Inaction or a show of weakness could lead to your demise.
 
By walking away! Give the two a loud and clear warning, hand gestures, no smile, hand on weapon, eyes on both of them..

Walk to the car, or walk to the nearest business, call 911 on the payphone!!! other options exists.. i believe what he did was right, but maybe he didnt exhuast all his resources. like maybe telling the guys he would call the cops.. I know this may be something us gun owners hate saying but it's an option, if that fails and they continue to move closer then act, maybe hold your hand out in the HALT position.. yell, never making a counter threat because then it becomes a fray.. basically two parties arguing.

If they move in for the attack, or draw a weapon, gun/knife/blunt object.. whatever, then draw!

And about the phone pimp thing...no ive never seen a phone pimp, but if these two think they own the phone, and want to charge for it's use...then so be it, let the police tell them otherwise... thousands of other payphones

----
Let's say you want to sit on a park bench, and a homeless guy thinks he owns it because he sleeps on it, and he tries to charge you to sit on it... would you stuff your snubby in his nose? or just go to a different bench!
 
Quote: Bout 2:30pm his car breaks down close to an old abandoned mall parking lot. He sees pay phone (no, he dones't have a cell phone) up besides the mall. Decides to carry Berreta since he would have to walk some 250yd to the phone.

I do not think many payphones would be abundantly distributed in an old abandoned mall parking lot. Since the nearest one is 250 yards, the second one could be 500 yards or not even visible. So are you going to sit in your car waiting for a good samaritan to pass by?

How could someone without a cell phone call the cops?

BG's often size up their potential victims by your body language, if they see fear and watch you back up they will come after you. By the time you have done all those options enumerated, the BG's would have come over and clobbered you, taken your credit cards, cash and gun. Hopefully not though.

In this scenario, looking at the good result that occurred, I find it difficult not to agree with the action that took place.
 
See the anti's read stuff like this and see how quick somepeople are on the draw...


We as gun carriers need to excersize great self control, especially when in public.
 
Give the two a loud and clear warning, hand gestures, no smile, hand on weapon, eyes on both of them..
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I dunno BC, I went back up and read the original post, and it seems to me that is exactly what the friend did. Then the two BGs split up to encircle the friend. When he could no longer keep both of them in view, he drew his weapon.

I doubt he could have made it back to his car without severe injury.
I doubt if the BGs would have stopped at a $10 surcharge for payphone usage.
I doubt he would have been allowed to use the telephone without a retreat of the two BGs.
I doubt they would have retreated without a show of force.

This friend was already in the victim selection process, and well on his way to becoming a victim. The BGs did not leave with a verbal warning from the friend, instead, they prepared to victimize the man the same way a couple of dogs surround a wounded badger. From what is presented in the original post, I do not think he was wrong in drawing his weapon. I'm glad he did not have to use it.
 
I would have. Who knows what those guys were going to do? Better safe than sorry. If he would have shot one of them, then that wouldnt be right. I think he was justified!
 
Sheesh

We as gun carriers need to excersize great self control, especially when in public.
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My word. He didn't double-tap them, so to me it sounds like he exercized some pretty decent self-control.
:rolleyes:

greg
 
Definition of threat

According to dictionary.com, the definition of treat is An expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment. Thus, if the other conditons of ability and opportunity, are present, then unless the victim can run like Flash, he is in imminent danger. IANAL, but as long as these conditions exist, and victim fears his saftey then he is ok to draw and shoot. Retreat is a form of de-escalation, but only if it can be done safely.

From the short description of the incident, it seems the victim felt "an evil intention to inflict pian or injury" so he drew his defensive tool.
 
I believe I read where FL just changed their gun laws to allow a more liberal definition of armed defense. In which case, if I understand them right, he would have been within his rights to pull his weapon.

Each state is different. You really need to know what the law is in each state you carry in or at least have a very good idea.

While we can try and be lawyers everytime we think we need to protect ourselves. Common sense is more of a rule in my opinion. Was the friend right in pulling his weapon? I would say yes in the fact it defused the situation and everyone walked away unhurt. Was he legally right? I don't know.

I know I am going to react with what my gut and common sense is telling me.
 
By walking away! Give the two a loud and clear warning, hand gestures, no smile, hand on weapon, eyes on both of them..
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Two on one, with one already starting to flank him? Sorry, not a good game plan. How do you keep eyes on both of them when they are manuevering to blind side you, unless you suggest walking backwards 250 yards. And what happens when you trip? Ask them to please halt their attack until you are back on your feet?
 
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