Pathfinder45
New member
It's just business; don't take it personal.
Freedom MUNITIONS Pricing
- Thread starter pfisto22
- Start date
gaseousclay
New member
I've hardly used the ammo i've purchased over the last 3 months and it may stay that way for awhile. But, i'm not going to complain about prices because I know that there are tons of other people out there trying to get their hands on some. With that said, prices have gone up and limits have been imposed. I think this is a good thing because it prevents hoarding. I'd rather pay a little more for ammo and still be able to get it, versus ammo being cheap and not having any to buy.
I've got a different point of view. It doesn't prevent hoarding, it just prevents bulk purchases...
"Hoarding" is one of those terms that means something different to different people. One man's "hoard" is another mans "barely adequate supply".
Some people might say I've been "hoarding" ammo for decades. tis mine, I paid for it, I'll have as much as I want, thank you.
What I do find objectionable is the people that buy up the existing supply available, and THEN turn around and resell it for as much a higher price as the market will bear.
That's not hoarding, its monopoly capitalism.
It appears that a lot of the ammo makers are not working due to the Covid Panic. Then you get into simple supply and demand.
Both Midway and Graf's show nearly everything as being out of stock or not available or no back order.
"..."Hoarding" is one of those terms that..." Anything more than one box is called an arsenal up here. Sometimes one box is considered an arsenal. snicker.
Both Midway and Graf's show nearly everything as being out of stock or not available or no back order.
"..."Hoarding" is one of those terms that..." Anything more than one box is called an arsenal up here. Sometimes one box is considered an arsenal. snicker.
'Price Gouging' noun
an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/price-gouging
Are there firearms and ammunition distributers at the wholesale and retail levels participating in 'Price Gouging"?
Yes, yes there is.
Bang away at your keyboard all you want and tell me I'm wrong. Matters not to me. Is there price gouging happening right now on guns and ammo? Yes, yes there is.
an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/price-gouging
Are there firearms and ammunition distributers at the wholesale and retail levels participating in 'Price Gouging"?
Yes, yes there is.
Bang away at your keyboard all you want and tell me I'm wrong. Matters not to me. Is there price gouging happening right now on guns and ammo? Yes, yes there is.
Rangerrich99
New member
Went by a local place (not a gun/sporting goods store) that always has a couple shelves of ammo and such, and usually for a little cheaper than everywhere else in town. Yes, they had 9mm, plenty. $34.99/box 50. Ouch.
Glad I'm fully stocked and have years of reloading supplies. Hopefully after this week the prices start coming back down to Earth.
Glad I'm fully stocked and have years of reloading supplies. Hopefully after this week the prices start coming back down to Earth.
gaseousclay
New member
In the context of limited supply, if a store has 100 boxes of ammo on their shelf and 1 person comes in and buys all of it, that's hoarding, and that includes people that try to flip that ammo for ridiculous prices. A store that subjects customers to limits on ammo would at least level the playing field and give others a chance to buy some. But this year is an exception to the rule. Normally I couldn't care less.
When I went to Scheels back in July the ammo limit per customer was 1000. Then it dropped to 500, then 200 and now it's at 100. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I should've bought what I needed back when ammo was readily available and affordable. Nowadays, If I want 5.56/.223 or 9mm I can expect to pay $0.60 to .70 per round minimum.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Well, that is a very strong counter argument to an argument that nobody has made in this thread. There has yet to be anyone who has claimed that there is no price gouging going on anywhere.
Charging "too high a price". That right there makes it an opinion, not an incontrovertible fact. What price is too high? $0.10 / round? $0.50 a round? Depends on the time and the person.
For me, anything over about 15 cents a round right now for most pistol is too much because I reload and have plenty of components on hand. Now, if I was completely out and needed some I might be willing to spend 30 or 40 cents each. Or more depending on the rarity and my need. Everything is relative. I sometimes buy 5.56, but only if I can get it for 30 cents a round or less. Needless to say, I haven't bought any lately.
In this particular case, dropping the bulk discount is about the mildest form of adjustment to supply and demand you could hope for.
Even Cheaper than Dirt, well known for massive price increases in any sort of shortage, couldn't sell if people weren't willing to buy. In their case, I don't buy from them at all, even in normal times, because my OPINION is that their price adjustments are unreasonable.
For me, anything over about 15 cents a round right now for most pistol is too much because I reload and have plenty of components on hand. Now, if I was completely out and needed some I might be willing to spend 30 or 40 cents each. Or more depending on the rarity and my need. Everything is relative. I sometimes buy 5.56, but only if I can get it for 30 cents a round or less. Needless to say, I haven't bought any lately.
In this particular case, dropping the bulk discount is about the mildest form of adjustment to supply and demand you could hope for.
Even Cheaper than Dirt, well known for massive price increases in any sort of shortage, couldn't sell if people weren't willing to buy. In their case, I don't buy from them at all, even in normal times, because my OPINION is that their price adjustments are unreasonable.
Previously, every time the term "Price Gouging" gets used in this forum, there are those that claim there is no such thing. It's Capitalism they claim. It's supply and demand they claim. Nope, it's price gouging.I sure don't hear these folks complaining when prices are reduced to lower than previously because supply is outpacing demand; did you offer to pay more to the store owner? No, you didn't. Well, now supply isn't even close to demand - there is a $10,000,000,000 ammo backorder; better get used to higher prices, even if Trump comes out on top, it will take 2-3 years of 24/7/365 to catch up. If Biden comes out on top, with his threat of banning internet sales, prices will be even higher, especially with the added gov't regulations and restrictions.
It’s not gouging. A merchant offered to sell X forcY price. Take it or leave it. You are (by proxy) bidding against everyone else interested in that same ammo.
Don’t want it at that price, don’t buy it.
Are there degrees of raising prices I’m not going to participate in? Likely, such as described in recent Cheaper than Dirt discussions. It’s not gouging it’s just more than I’m happy to pay.
On the other hand, if I’m drowning, I might gladly pay the asking price of $10K for a life ring.
It all depends.
Don’t want it at that price, don’t buy it.
Are there degrees of raising prices I’m not going to participate in? Likely, such as described in recent Cheaper than Dirt discussions. It’s not gouging it’s just more than I’m happy to pay.
On the other hand, if I’m drowning, I might gladly pay the asking price of $10K for a life ring.
It all depends.
I doubt the people who think its gouging when the price is more than they want to pay are going to change their minds. And most likely neither are the people who call it hoarding when someone buys more than a 3rd party thinks they should.
These people are so into the "just in time" system that they're very put out when that system no longer works as well as it could, or did.
If anyone ever promised you that you would always be able to find the product you want on the shelf at a price you're happy to pay,,...they LIED.
I am less impressed with modern dictionary definitions than I was when I was younger, after having read the "fine print" in several, where they state that they define words and terms "as found in popular usage", which can be different from the proper or technical definition.
So, you call it what you think it is, and so will I, at least one of us will be right.
These people are so into the "just in time" system that they're very put out when that system no longer works as well as it could, or did.
If anyone ever promised you that you would always be able to find the product you want on the shelf at a price you're happy to pay,,...they LIED.
I am less impressed with modern dictionary definitions than I was when I was younger, after having read the "fine print" in several, where they state that they define words and terms "as found in popular usage", which can be different from the proper or technical definition.
So, you call it what you think it is, and so will I, at least one of us will be right
.Pathfinder45
New member
As pfisto22 mentioned in the original post:
A retailer buys in quantities beyond the consumers' ability to buy, then parcels it out in smaller quantities more appropriate for the consumer; he must make a profit or will soon be out of business.
Then there are the entrepreneurial types that seize upon an opportunity that others didn't.... Some call it free enterprise; some call it price gouging.... What did the Bolsheviks call it?
Why not be happy to do so well? That's lots more than I have; perhaps I could call it hoarding..... !,000 rounds is more than you really need.... You could go shoot half of it up just for the fun of it and save the rest of it in reserve until you can buy more at what ever price you can tolerate.
A retailer buys in quantities beyond the consumers' ability to buy, then parcels it out in smaller quantities more appropriate for the consumer; he must make a profit or will soon be out of business.
Then there are the entrepreneurial types that seize upon an opportunity that others didn't.... Some call it free enterprise; some call it price gouging.... What did the Bolsheviks call it?
The attitude illustrated in that phrase, and so often found in both casual and political conversations is one of the root causes of our troubles today.
Someone(s) deciding for others what they "need".
It is a very tiny step from "more than you need" to making rules and even laws to ENFORCE an arbitrary viewpoint on us as to what we need.
Since "nobody needs XXXX" then its ok to pass a law saying nobody can have XXXX, right??? Not in my opinion.
Pick any subject or item you want, when someone else gets to decide your needs, you are not in control, and indeed have no say in the matter, generally.
Consider this, (as an extreme example of the logic)
The Govt sets a minimum wage. This means that, under the law, you and I don't NEED more than that.
So why aren't we all sending every penny we have above minimum wage to the Govt?, where, I'm sure it will be well spent for the benefit of all....
Physically an individual's needs are small and simple. Enough food so we don't starve to death, and enough shelter (including clothing) so we don't die of exposure. That's all. Everything else is a want, not a need. Getting what we want above what we need is what makes life enjoyable, some would say "worth living".
What that is, is not for you to decide for me, nor for me to decide for you.
Pathfinder45
New member
Thank you for your excellent follow-up post, 44 AMP. And, though it may seem otherwise in my previous post, I agree with you:
As to that provocative part of it: There are needs, anticipated needs, and being prepared for things that aren't supposed to happen but all-to-often do. No one needs a Band-Aid.....until they do!
In some religious and political philosophies, to have more than your basic needs can either be a sin of greed or a crime called hoarding. I don't subscribe to either one of those....
I prefer the old Boy Scouts Motto; Be Prepared. I actually recommend a well stocked pantry including ammo. Don't cut yourself, but keep your first-aid-kit well stocked. Sooner or later, somebody is going to need it.
This is just me entertaining and considering a thought that I don't fully agree with to make a valid point. That point being that it's fine to wish for another super-good deal that's no longer available....but not so fair to accuse of price gouging, scalping, or, blaming others as hoarders for stocking up when they could. Could-a, should-a, would-a, didn't.....
As to that provocative part of it: There are needs, anticipated needs, and being prepared for things that aren't supposed to happen but all-to-often do. No one needs a Band-Aid.....until they do!
In some religious and political philosophies, to have more than your basic needs can either be a sin of greed or a crime called hoarding. I don't subscribe to either one of those....
I prefer the old Boy Scouts Motto; Be Prepared. I actually recommend a well stocked pantry including ammo. Don't cut yourself, but keep your first-aid-kit well stocked. Sooner or later, somebody is going to need it.
The other half of this argument is not just price gouging, but supply gouging. It was brought up in this thread. If a store has 1000 rounds of ammo and one person buys it all, is that fair?
Ammo might not be a good example, so lets take toilet paper. If one person comes in and cleans out a store of all its toilet paper (before such restrictions were in place), and therefore removes the ability of other people to buy toilet paper, is that fair? The person hoarding it probably does not need it all, while the person wanting it could very well need it ASAP!
I prefer to side with liberty on most things, but when supply and demand are screwed with artificially, I can understand why some restrictions are put in place.
Ammo might not be a good example, so lets take toilet paper. If one person comes in and cleans out a store of all its toilet paper (before such restrictions were in place), and therefore removes the ability of other people to buy toilet paper, is that fair? The person hoarding it probably does not need it all, while the person wanting it could very well need it ASAP!
I prefer to side with liberty on most things, but when supply and demand are screwed with artificially, I can understand why some restrictions are put in place.