Freedom Arms loses really dumb lawsuit

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I think I said earlier that if there is a common error with a gadgt and it has been found repeatedly that the design leads folks to ignore the safety warnings, some responsibility ends up with the manufacturer. It's well known in human factors work.

Thus, the jury assigned blame to both and there was a smaller settlement. Is there more to be said that isn't just blah, blah.
 
Glenn,
if there is a common error with a gadgt and it has been found repeatedly that the design leads folks to ignore the safety warnings, some responsibility ends up with the manufacturer.

Just what part of the SAA design leads folks to ignore a warning on the safe carrying of the product?

Did the factory suggest that it is possible to safely carry the revolver fully loaded?

Did the factory fail to adequately warn the consumer of the danger if carried with the hammer resting on a live round?

Just because this jury found the factory at fault (a percentage) doesn't mean that the factory was at fault. The factory warned of the danger and gave a solution to this danger. A solution that if followed by the consumer eliminates the danger. The consumer chose to buy this type of revolver instead of the transfer bar version. The consumer chose not to follow factory warnings for proper carry. The consumer activated the hammer with his jacket. The consumer then sues for damages because he is unable to accept personal responsibility. The jury then awards him with an award because they lack personal responsibility.

Question. If you had a dog that bit someone A. In your yard. B. with posted signs warning of the dog do you feel responsible?
 
problem is product liability law as it stands

threegun said:
Glenn,
Quote:
if there is a common error with a gadgt and it has been found repeatedly that the design leads folks to ignore the safety warnings, some responsibility ends up with the manufacturer.
Just what part of the SAA design leads folks to ignore a warning on the safe carrying of the product?

Did the factory suggest that it is possible to safely carry the revolver fully loaded?

Did the factory fail to adequately warn the consumer of the danger if carried with the hammer resting on a live round?

Just because this jury found the factory at fault (a percentage) doesn't mean that the factory was at fault. The factory warned of the danger and gave a solution to this danger. A solution that if followed by the consumer eliminates the danger. The consumer chose to buy this type of revolver instead of the transfer bar version. The consumer chose not to follow factory warnings for proper carry. The consumer activated the hammer with his jacket. The consumer then sues for damages because he is unable to accept personal responsibility. The jury then awards him with an award because they lack personal responsibility.

Question. If you had a dog that bit someone A. In your yard. B. with posted signs warning of the dog do you feel responsible?

the real problem is product liability law as it stands. It allows consumers to sue the manufacturers even when they misuse the product based on product liability law as it stands.

Even if FA had won this case, they would have already spent large amount of money defending themselves in the court. If FA was a smaller company or had less disposable fund to defend themselves in court, they could have being driven out of business. The money that FA spent so far in fighting this lawsuit could have being better spent in hiring more employees and developing new product.

Whether its guns or blade-sharpeners or any other product, ultimately the consumer is responsible.

Product litigation results in decreased industry growth as well as industry employment across broad span of industries outside gun business.

Best way to bring accountability to companies is not through lawsuit but through competition and consumer complaint that is made public.

When lawsuit are made public or when other kind of negative information about a particular company is made public, quite often, it results in lower stock price and sales for that company.

Competition and increased market transparency is the best way to bring accountability to market.

Litigation acts like tax...it doesn't help capitalism or free market. In fact, it results in depressing the growth of the market. Among free market economy, while U.S. does not lead the way among free market economy, we lead the way in product litigation by spending 2-3% of our gross GDP on litigation cost.


--John
 
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Keep your hands at 10 and 2 else an accident may ensue.

If I fail to follow this warning and collide with something, it's the car manufacturers fault???:confused:

Come onnn!..
 
I have a softball bat with high tech construction. There are 8 numbers along the barrel to ensure that I rotate it each at-bat so that the barrel doesn't go out of round. I could have gotten a bat that didn't require this precaution, but liked the performance characteristics of this one.

What if I forget to rotate the bat? What if I never read the instructions to rotate the bat (I mean, come on, it's a BAT, why would I read the manual!?) What if I loan the bat to someone else?

Where is the liability of the bat manufacturer when, after 6 short weeks, I have a bat out of round and unable to be used in the big tournament? Or if I did use it, it cracks and I injure myself or others?
 
WA, How about you tell me why it is a bad example.

Why..because I dont think for you or anyone else?...You cant even come up with ONE reason why that is a BAD example?

I will tell you why it is a good example.

First the fact that you posted a sign indicates that you knowingly have a vicious dog on your premises. This parallels Freedom Arms knowingly selling a gun which can go bang if carried wrong.

Second the victim had to ignore your warning of potential danger just as the victim of the AD had to ignore the factory warning on how to carry.

Third The victim had to enter your yard to get bit just as the victim of the shooting had to carry improperly to get shot.

Like I said great example. Both show proper warning of potential danger. Both have the victim ignoring the warning. Without the victim's negligence neither would have happened.
 
the real problem is product liability law as it stands. It allows consumers to sue the manufacturers even when they misuse the product based on product liability law as it stands.

John is that true in EVERY jurisdiction...you have 50 different product liability rules ya know.

And almost all of you ignore the economic aspect which is the foundation of virtually all tort law as it stands.

WildiwillhaveanexamplelaterifihavetimegottogetgunsoutAlaska
 
Many folk, Threegun, can't get beyond the warnings.

What part of the design makes folks ignore the warning - it is the number of cylinders. In the trade this is called an affordance. The natural look of the design leads people to to this even if the manual says differently.

This is very, very well known in the human factors literature. Given that folks are known to do this, saying XYZ about the manual isn't really a total excuse - it gives a mixed error casuality.

Glock got into the same trouble with the post in the early tupperware. It led folks to pull the trigger despite all the rules and gun manuals.

S0 - once you know that a mistake is gong to happen based on the flaws of human stupidity - do you fix it?
 
WA, reply to post #276

WildAlaska said:
Quote:
the real problem is product liability law as it stands. It allows consumers to sue the manufacturers even when they misuse the product based on product liability law as it stands.
John is that true in EVERY jurisdiction...you have 50 different product liability rules ya know.

And almost all of you ignore the economic aspect which is the foundation of virtually all tort law as it stands.

WA,

product liability law is more severe in aviation industry AFAIK since it allows manufacturer to be sued if the operator's asset/insurance coverage was not adequate.

In general, product liability law allows manufacturer to be sued even if the consumer misused the product so long as consumer negligence/misuse was foreseeable.


The economic aspect of litigation was and is widely researched in peer reviewed journals. General findings are:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
1. acts like tax in creating a drag on economic growth...basically, it decreases economic growth.

2. more litigation there are in particular industry, lesser the growth in that industry

3. product litigation has negative effect on employment in that industry

4. points 2 and 3 has being found to apply across variety of industry, not just 1 or 2 industry

5. points 1-4 are expected according to general theory of finance and have being observed to be true.
____________________________________________________________________________________________



If FA spent $500K-$1M on this lawsuit, that means FA have that much amount less to spend on hiring new employees and developing new product. But this is not the only cost. In order to avoid future lawsuit, other firm will moderate their product line to avoid future lawsuit. Not only that, these kind of lawsuits raises insurance premium over the long run for companies in that industry. And in the end, it's the stockholders and consumers who will pay.

My expertise is in finance and economic. I have had only 1 graduate course in business law. In research literature in finance and economic, effect of litigation is widely studied and its negative effects are well known.

In case people are wondering how to keep shoddy companies in check, its competition and WOM(word-of-mouth) and negative publicity. Negative publicity depresses stock price and sometime sales. More competitive that particular industry is, greater accountability is enforced since other companies are striving to take business away from shoddy companies.



http://www.mallenbaker.net/csr/CSRfiles/crisis02.html

1982: when JNJ's product was contaminated by 3rd party and when it became known, their market value fell by $1B. When a similar incident happened in 1986, JNJ responded by creating a tamper proof package. Findings in peer reviewed research literature in finance is that negative publicity depresses stock price. According to research at Wharton (probably No. 1 business school), negative WOM results in significant loss of business to a retailer.

mallenbaker.net said:
In 1982, Johnson & Johnson's Tylenol medication commanded 35 per cent of the US over-the-counter analgesic market - representing something like 15 per cent of the company's profits.

Unfortunately, at that point one individual succeeded in lacing the drug with cyanide. Seven people died as a result, and a widespread panic ensued about how widespread the contamination might be.

By the end of the episode, everyone knew that Tylenol was associated with the scare. The company's market value fell by $1bn as a result.

When the same situation happened in 1986, the company had learned its lessons well. It acted quickly - ordering that Tylenol should be recalled from every outlet - not just those in the state where it had been tampered with. Not only that, but the company decided the product would not be re-established on the shelves until something had been done to provide better product protection.

As a result, Johnson & Johnson developed the tamperproof packaging that would make it much more difficult for a similar incident to occur in future.


http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/...OKEN=70635062&jsessionid=a830a8aa764231630365

Stephen J. Hoch/Wharton said:
Results of The Retail Customer Dissatisfaction Study 2006 -- conducted by The Jay H. Baker Retailing Initiative at Wharton and The Verde Group, a Toronto consulting firm, in the weeks before and after Christmas 2005 -- show that only 6% of shoppers who experienced a problem with a retailer contacted the company, but 31% went on to tell friends, family or colleagues what happened. Of those, 8% told one person, another 8% told two people, but 6% told six or more people. "Even though these shoppers don't share their pain with the store, they do share their pain with other people, apparently quite a few other people," says Hoch.

Overall, if 100 people have a bad experience, a retailer stands to lose between 32 and 36 current or potential customers, according to the study.


--John
 
So you muzzel the dog since people are going to ignore the sign.

I prefer putting the blame on the moron. If more folks thought the same this wouldn't be an issue. The coffee in the crotch type things.
 
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