Four-Legged Threats

farmerboy, maybe you haven't noticed, but sometimes having interpersonal skills can help deescalate situations. It's commonly thought that one should be able to do many things before having to draw a weapon. So, how is it funny that someone would try the same thing with a dog?

Let's switch places, a dog decides to use your lawn as it's personal Jade toilet. You get upset, and walk out with a gun. His owner sees this, and decides you're a threat. Unfortunately he thinks the whole "interpersonal skills" idea is laughable, so he just shoots you to defend his dog.
 
Ok first I'll say what if it really did work out in my situation with a charging pit bull and I didnt have to shoot and kill him this time, Great!!!! but what if the next day your 5 year old grandaughter came down the road and she didnt know of these Special Skills that you posess? And she wasnt so lucky... Some people and some animals should just be taken clean out of the gene pool right away. Or better yet maybe we can start releasing so many maximum security inmates from prison and letting YOU getting them lined out and being a productable person in society. And earlier in that post, I said "funny" I meant to say so many or just plain Stupid!
 
farmerboy, while I won't go so far as to say I'd shoot somebody for threatening my dog (as suggested by Black Feather, theoretically), I will say that if one of my dogs got loose, and some yahoo decided to use one as arbitrary target practice, that person would have a very bad near future.

Depending on circumstances, and how the person reacted, that could range from legal and financial problems (how hard do you think it would be to come up with causes for lawsuits against some ignorant, loud-mouthed redneck?) to other problems.

Now, when I say "arbitrary target practice," I am referring to some idiot who thinks "well, it's on or approaching my property, I can just shoot it because I want to." This is as opposed to somebody who actually felt threatened, or who witnessed dogs running his livestock, etc.

If my dog were near me, and a weapon were drawn, I might just think the person was threatening me... and I, too, am armed. As Black Feather said, in such a case, one would hope the humans involved would have some interpersonal skills. But, interpersonal skills failing, I am an above average shot.
 
Leake, I now state that if "a charging pitbull" was making his way to me. And his owner was standing nearby, I would shoot the dog dead!!! and if the owner didnt like that and drew leather in revenge, well lets just say I always carry more than one bullet. Maybe we can bury them in the same hole!
 
I train my dogs not to bite.

I am not going to take bites from anyone else's dog.

It attacks, it is dead.

NOW.
With prejudice.

If on threatens my family they are dead. NOW.

Keep your dog under control and and prevent it from threatening me and it is not going to be harmed.
 
farmerboy, that's not all you've stated. You've also insulted those who suggest that in most cases, a firearm is unnecessary.

I've dealt with pit bulls, boxers, rotts, dobermans, shepherds... even a mastiff. So far, I have not needed a stick, let alone a gun. Interpersonal/intercanine skills are very good for either assuming the alpha role, or for just making friends, with people or dogs.

One of these days, you might even learn that.

I can't imagine you'd suggest the first thing to do, to control an ornery cow or hog on a farm, would be to shoot it. I doubt you'd be thrilled with somebody shooting your charging bull; you'd probably have other methods available for controlling it, or at least evading it.

So, either you haven't applied lessons learned from the farm (my in-laws are farmers), or else you just like to bluster.
 
brickeyee, define "attack."

Some people think a dog approaching, wagging tail and head up, is preparing to attack.

Some people think black teenagers are threatening, because they are black teenagers.

Personally, I think you should be able to articulate exactly what behavior you found threatening, be it by a dog or a human. Some forum members here seem to have very low thresholds. (I don't mean you, brickeyee, as I assume you can elaborate on what you mean by "attack.")
 
If my pitbull was charging you or anyone else, if you didnt shoot it. I Would!!!! I think we all need to get in a circle hold hands and sing "Kum Ba Yah:!
 
And there you go again, farmerboy.

Tell you what, I'm in Afghanistan. Why don't you come over here and sing kumbaya? Or teach me the words, since you seem to know them...

Assumptions can backfire.
 
I'm in Afghanistan
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I sure hoipe you come back here in one piece sir. My nephew spent some time over there, was rough on him.

I try not to shoot dogs, but them cats, well they are a bad item and dont get the free pass.

Owners need to be responsible for their pets and take cqare they dont get out. Mine have, two went to a neighbors place and tore up a rabbit hutch and killed a rabbit. He comes up and tells me he had a bead on her but couldnt pull the trigger even after she killed the rabbit. I asked him whats the cost for the coney he said 50.00 so I paid him the cash and got a in ground electric fence.
 
would you shoot a dog to protect other dogs or another dog?
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If you do, depending upon your jurisdiction, be prepared to spend big bucks on legal assistance. In California dogs are property, not family. Lethal force to protect property is a no-no.
 
MLeak wrote:

I've dealt with pit bulls, boxers, rotts, dobermans, shepherds... even a mastiff. So far, I have not needed a stick, let alone a gun. Interpersonal/intercanine skills are very good for either assuming the alpha role, or for just making friends, with people or dogs.
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I'm thinking not all dogs, nor all people, come from the same mold. Some folks do not have the interpersonal/intercanine skills you have, nor the combative skills, nor even the physical abilities you have.

I'm thinking perhaps each person does the best they can and hopes for the best outcome.

I forget how "Kum Ba Yah" goes ... can you hum a few bars ?
 
Hook686, kumbaya is farmerboy's thing, not mine.

Meanwhile, there are lots of elderly people who deal with strange dogs every day, yet don't shoot them.

My grandmother was terrified of dogs, yet she never shot one, nor threw a rock at one. She might yell if one approached, but she would do so while stepping toward it, not showing a "prey" reaction, and that always did the trick.

My point is not that an attacking dog should be coddled. My point is that the vast majority of dogs that approach are not actually attacking, and that a distinction should be made between an approaching dog vs an attacking one.

Like I have said, I don't have issue with people who react from reasonable fear; but I have a big issue with people who react from irrational fear, or who simply kill something because they figure they can.

From your prior posts, I don't think you are irrational, or a blow-hard. So, I would think you'd understand my position.

Now, does one's physical condition or skill-set affect one's options, in whatever case one perceives? Yes, of course.

But you are the same, somewhat disabled 60-something gentleman whether the creature approaching you is an unknown dog or a panhandler. Are you going to tell me you'd shoot the panhandler without an articulable reason why you felt he was threatening you, aside from the fact that he was approaching and you are older and less physically capable? Of course not. The same rationale should apply with the dog, at least to an extent.

And if the dog really was attacking, then I have no issue with use of a firearm - aside from potential threat to the neighborhood from stray bullets. (I generally do not think a gun is an optimal anti-dog weapon in a wide variety of circumstances; they move fast and are hard to hit, which also means they are easy to miss.)
 
"If you do, depending upon your jurisdiction, be prepared to spend big bucks on legal assistance. In California dogs are property, not family. Lethal force to protect property is a no-no." Quote by Hook686

This is extremely interesting, in such a situation even though the state would consider my dog property, I would not let another dog attack and kill it and I would still kill the attacking dog after it drew first blood.

The owner could sue me and I would counter sue, as all I killed was property , and his dog initiated the attack which also injured my dog or property and if his property or dog had not initiated the attack neither dog or property would have been injured or killed.

Good old legal system, I quess it keeps us from killing each other, but things were much simpler in Nam in the Mountains of the Central Highlands where there were no civilians and only professional soldiers killing each other, which was bad enough.
 
PH/CIB, the problem wouldn't be as much about the dog, as the possible charges of discharge of a firearm within city limits, etc.

So yes, you might face criminal charges.

That said, I'd defend my dog. I might try physical force, first (kick the attacker, hit it with stick, etc); if that didn't work, and now I'm in a dog fight, I suspect I'd shoot the attacker - and be able at that point to claim self-defense.
 
MLeake, Thank You! and your Military Family, for your service to our Country, may you come home safely!

Some of the Animal Vets on the forum can weigh in on this whether true or not, but in the case of lethal force against an attacking dog, I have heard the rabies series of shots are extensive and very painful, I have also have heard that the only way to tell if a dog has rabies is to examine it's brain under a microscope which means dead dog.

I would probably not kill a dog until it viciously had bitten myself or someone else or my dog, but once bitten now the rabies shots and test on the dog are probably mandantory and it is too late to escape that reality.
 
PH/CIB, the people who worry me are the ones such as one TFL member who posted that he had considered Macing dogs that lived on a property he often jogged past, who were inside their own fence. He was afraid they might try to come over the fence at him, so he was considering preemptively spraying them while they were still behind the fence.

Or other TFL members who say, "they are only dogs, I am not going to find out if they really mean to attack."

Or other TFL members who say, "responsible pet owners don't let their dogs run loose; their tough luck."

Tell ya what, my Catahoula got out of my parents' yard, when they were keeping him for me. Neighbor saw how he did it... He put his back against their Japanese plum tree, his paws on the chain-link fence, and he chimneyed out like a rock climber.

Was I irresponsible for leaving my dog with my parents while I was stationed in Hawaii (dog had epilepsy, and I did not want to quarantine him)?

Were my parents irresponsible for thinking their 6ft fence would contain my dog?

Was I very happy that the people who found my dog didn't shoot him because he approached them?

Edit: My parents had the tree taken down, shortly after this happened, and did not leave the dog outside unsupervised until the tree had been removed.
 
my dog used to steal skins that I could hang in the garage: foxtails, you name it. I was looking both ways some mrngs(joking) making sure he hadn't been made:D

I didn't know where they were coming from, but I was nervous he was gonna get smashed my a pickup or hit with a "stray" bullet one night. It beat him and his buddies using my extension gutters as combat practice.:cool:
 
If you do, depending upon your jurisdiction, be prepared to spend big bucks on legal assistance. In California dogs are property, not family. Lethal force to protect property is a no-no.
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I don't live in CA but I don't doubt you as far as Cali is concerned. That being said, I will defend my dog's life with force.
 
Mleake seems to see the exact same problems I do. Some have offered far more "stupid" solutions than what farmerboy thinks that I and others have offered.

To defend your life, when you are in fear of it, with lethal force. I understand this, but I'm not afraid of dogs. That simple. :)
 
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