Aguila Blanca
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom
Oh good grief. "American" is not a Race.
No, but "Asian" is one of the choices under Race.
I know. I've known for years.
But you wrote the following:
Actually, he's American -- his mother and father were Chinese American. My roommate is almost 100% Chinese by DNA, but he was born and raised in Virginia, grew up hanging around with American kids, speaks zero Chinese, has no ties to China, and his wife is a stereotypical Italian American. If he were to buy a firearm, he should check the box for "Asian" -- even though his entire goal in life was to be the all-American boy, and the fact that he maintains no cultural associations of any sort with the land of his ancestors.
"Even though".......implies that choosing "Asian" is somehow incorrect....because he's always wanted to be "the All American boy".
My point was that my former roommate can (and should) check the Asian box if he buys a gun, yet if he were Native American rather than Chinese American, he wouldn't hit either of the two supplementary conditions that apply only to American Indians and Alaska Natives. A full-blood Navajo who was raised in Alexandria, Virginia, and who was educated at The Friends School and an Ivy League university, who married an Italian American wife, does not maintain any "tribal affiliation" and does not maintain any "community association" with the Navajo tribe. So why is the Navajo not allowed to check the American Indian box but my friend is allowed (and required) to check the Asian box?
Again for 87th time......you are asking the wrong folks. If you don't like the instructions on the 4473 any response in this forum won't make you happy. And I doubt the answer you get from OMB will either.
Used for identification? People from India (in general) don't look anything like people from China or Japan. In fact, (in general) people from Japan don't actually look a whole lot like people from Korea. Many (Asian) Indians don't regard India as part of Asia at all. The classifications are arbitrary, and they were not developed just for background checks and criminal investigations.
I swear I've repeated this several times, I'll try once again.
1. The Race & Ethnicity question and options were required by OMB...on all federal documents that ask such identifying questions.
2. The Form 4473 says right there in the instructions to 10a and 10b:
"Federal regulations (27 CFR 478.124(c)(1)) require
licensees to obtain the race of the transferee/buyer. This information helps the FBI and/or State POC make or rule out potential matches during the background check process and can assist with criminal investigations."
You might disagree with that, I don't. But arguing with me isn't going to change the mind of the FBI or State POC on the information gathered or how they use it.
Tom, your position is inconsistent. On one hand, you say the information "is used by the FBI or State POC during the background check process and in criminal investigations."
Horsehockey, I DON'T SAY THAT.....ATF DOES!!!! I've begged you to read the darn instructions, yet you continue to confuse what you think is my beliefs and opinions with what is printed in the 4473 instructions.
But then you say the classifications come from the OMB -- which is true. And various federal and state agencies all use those same classifications, and not solely for background checks and criminal investigations. The classification information may also be used for determining who is or is not eligible for certain programs and/or benefits.
Oh good grief. There nothing inconsistent with that.
All I'm saying is that the choice for American Indian or Alaska Native, per the 4473 instructions, imposes certain unexplained limitations on who is supposed to check that box, limitations that do not apply to any of the other choices.
No kidding. Have I disagreed at any point in this thread that Native Americans have to have a tribal affiliation or community attachment? NO I HAVE NOT!
I don't think the instructions are clear as to what the two possible qualifiers mean; you apparently don't see any lack of clarity.
I don't and I've yet to have a customer to get his panties in a wad because of those instructions.