For those of you who use a red dot on your carry pistol,,,

[TunnelRat]

My points up until now have been the optics in question have been tested in the real world for years if not decades, the batteries themselves can last for years, and threats exist passed 5 yd. I guess I missed where I was strutting and beating my chest.

There are imminent threats and there are active threats. Absent a weapon being present yes it’s not easy to show you were in imminent danger passed 5 yd. But we don’t always have the luxury of getting the drop on our attackers. Even someone with a contact weapon can be a threat passed 5 yd. Take the Tueller drill for example. A person can cover ground pretty quickly, and the Tueller drill even assumes you have already identified the threat and are drawing from a strong side belt mounted holster. Reacting from concealment requires even more distance. This isn’t even getting into the reality that firearms are ranged weapons that can certainly shoot passed 5 yd and an attacker can take advantage of that fact.

If the argument is self defense shootings passed 5 yd are rare, I can agree. Needing to use a firearm for self defense in the first place is rare. Given that I don’t find the red dot to have a disadvantage 5 yd and in, I’m not sure how having additional capability to handle longer range shots, as rare as they may be, is a bad thing. If someone doesn’t want that that’s fine.

For me, beyond advantages at range, the red dot allows target focused shooting and my brief stint in force on force showed me that focusing on sights and the target while dealing with adrenaline wasn’t easy. With a red dot I superimpose the dot on the target, making the process easier. This is in addition to the fact that my eyesight and corrective lenses make it difficult to see a crisp front sight while also being able to have good target definition at range. The dot looks visually much more clear to me than a front sight with my lenses.


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[jimku]

I know many can't do this, but I can ... even with my 72 year old eyesight. With a 357 snubbie I can bounce pop cans around all day long at 100 Yards. I might not actually hit them, but I absolutely scare the hell out of them and bounce them around. If it was a man-sized target at that range he would be in very deep doo-doo. And I practice at every distance out to that range, shooting up-hill and down-hill (and yes, that makes a difference). I also practice point-shooting from the hip ... you very well might not have time to even raise your weapon to eye-level. Out to 10 yards a bad guy is dead meat even if I just shoot from the hip. I am also one of the most hard-to-rattle people you will ever meet. Panic is not in my vocabulary. I am not high-strung AT ALL. Stress impacts different people in different ways.

The odds of me ever having to use a gun in self-defense are very low, probably lower than those of being hit by lightning. There is a VERY low crime rate where I live, there is zero racial tension here, lots of people don't even lock their homes. I just don't see myself ever being attacked for those reasons as well as the fact that I always practice strong situational awareness and will avoid getting into a mess like a protest or riot. The most likely situation I might find myself in would be sitting in a restaurant or in Walmart or in some gas station and some dippidy-do pulls a gun and is threatening people or shooting.

 

[TunnelRat]

That’s great that you have that ability. Not everyone does. At no point have I said red dots are a replacement for skill. As I said, if you don’t want one then don’t use one. That doesn’t mean that those of us that do use one don’t have reasons. Reflexive shooting is also something I’ve already mentioned and said is important. It’s good that you’re not hard to rattle, I don’t believe I am either. I also don’t see how being that way negates anything I’ve brought up so far. Shooting at static targets at a range or not getting into arguments isn’t quite the same as defending yourself when getting shot at.

As for your statistical likelihood of needing a firearm for defense, that’s something I already acknowledged. Situational awareness is of course important, nothing I have said has challenged that. None of this changes the fact that you may find yourself under attack from a person more than 5 yd away. Given that you can bounce soda cans at 100 yd with a snub nosed revolver, seems like you should be fine. For me, I want the red dot.


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[jimku]

That’s great that you have that ability. Not everyone does. At no point have I said red dots are a replacement for skill. As I said, if you don’t want one then don’t use one. That doesn’t mean that those of us that so use one don’t have reasons. Reflexive shooting is also something I’ve already mentioned and said is important.

As for your statistical likelihood of needing a firearm for defense, that’s something I already acknowledged. Situational awareness is of course important, nothing I have said has challenged that. None of this changes the fact that you may find yourself under attack from a person more than 5 yd away. Given that you can bounce soda cans at 100 yd, seems like you should be fine. For me, I want the red dot.


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The point of my post was that not evryone wears the same size shoe and that what's good for you is not necessarily good for me ... and the other way 'round as well. I think we are pretty much in agreement about things other than a red dot. But you have my blessing to do as you will on that score.

I run into this same sort of discussion with people concerning the best gun to pack when in grizzly bear country. Many laud the high capacity of a 10mm semi-auto. The reality is that a ticked off grizzly can cover 40 yards in about two seconds and you most likely will not get a 2nd shot much less 10.

 

[TunnelRat]

I think I was going to do what I wanted regardless of your blessing.

Mentioning battery life of these optics, the real world testing of red dots, and their impact on shooting irons is a factual question, not a matter of personal preference. That’s why I responded originally because the information you were presenting in those areas was wrong. Choosing to use them is another story.


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[jimku]

Mentioning battery life of these optics, the real world testing of red dots, and their impact on shooting irons is a factual question, not a matter of personal preference. That’s why I responded originally because the information you were presenting in those areas was wrong.

Wrong for you. Right for me.
For me, it is a proven fact that I can shoot iron sights much faster than I can a red dot.

 

[TunnelRat]

Not really no. You’re confusing personal preference with facts in those areas. They’re not one in the same. You can not want to use a red dot on a pistol. That’s a matter of what is right for you or not. That doesn’t change the amount of time a battery will last or how durable is an optic. That’s factual.

You can also edit comments and add in clarifiers, but you’ll notice speed isn’t one of the items in the text of mine you quoted.


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[JohnKSa]

I'm going to do some cleanup work and lock this thread.

However, I think it's worth providing one more bit of information. A useful feature of some of the small red dot/holosights for handguns is that they can be set up so that iron sights can be seen through the "display" screen. This means that even in the event of dead batteries or other failure of the electronic sight, the iron sights of the handgun can still be seen and used.