Flattest Shooting?

Whiskey

So then you're saying that 7mm Mags are way too expensive to justify getting a gun that fires the cartridge? Or that the .270 accomplishes the same thing most of the time (as long as I stick with under...say...300 yard shots?) despite the fact the 7 mm mag is a bigger bullet? or is it a bigger bullet........haha I don't even know, like I said, I'm just now getting into this.
 
Any cailber using a 6.5mm bullet. 6.5 bullets have owned many world records in shooting at distance. The high B.C. allow less drop and wind drift than most any other cailber. I do believe the best B.C. bullet on the market is the 408 Cheytac, but I think you are looking at more of a hunting type bullet.
 
So then you're saying that 7mm Mags are way too expensive to justify getting a gun that fires the cartridge? Or that the .270 accomplishes the same thing most of the time (as long as I stick with under...say...300 yard shots?) despite the fact the 7 mm mag is a bigger bullet? or is it a bigger bullet........haha I don't even know, like I said, I'm just now getting into this.

What I'm saying is everything has their application. If you are new to this, I think .308/.270/.30-06 might be a better way to go for moderate distance shooting. Why? Because you will pay about 60% less for (practice) ammo than with any of the belted magnum rounds, and more rounds down range to practice is better than 10% more energy any day of the week (IMHO).

If you are an accomplished distance shooter and you're going to be picking Rams off in the Dakotas at 600 yards, then yes a 7 mag will be better for you. If you want to punch paper and hunt whitetail within 300 yards, those belted mags offer no major advantage and they are much more expensive. Plus they wear the barrel out about twice as fast. That's my point.
 
That solves it

Thanks Whiskey, that clears it up. I believe I'll just get good with....probably a .270 for awhile, and if I ever have the fortune (in both meanings of the word) to go to those Dakota long range hunts I'll get a 7 mm mag. Surely though if I get a Ruger 7 mm mag (if they make one) it'll never break (knock on wood). I understand though because I assume it is one big round!

Now StrongSideArmsInc, the 6.5mm bullets, what calibers are they in, how expensive do they run, how much better is the ballistic coefficient than other rounds, and would they be a good idea for a guy like me? because 408 sounds like a big and expensive caliber! haha
 
One of the flattest shooting guns I can think of off the top of my head would be the 257 Weatherby, not including wildcat cartridges. Out of the 2 that you suggested, I would go with the 270. The
 
Whoa. Lots of "flat shooting" rounds. What are you intending to hit at the end of that long shot? An elk or a groundhog? Or a target? I don't shoot one, but the 7 mm Shooting Times Westerner has to be a contender. The old 8 mm Rem Mag necked down is truly a laser, if you are up for a custom "long action" rifle that will rattle your fillings.
 
Just a little curious El Matadur

Have you ever fired a magnum caliber rifle? Recoil can be painful from some of the big ones. Many a new shooters gave up on guns because the first big gun they shot hurt like all get out. I have never seen Kentucky but I assume most of your hunting will likely be moderate ranges (100 to maybe 300 yards). I have hunted in Idaho and Washington most of my life and have yet to shoot an animal from more than 150 yards. Not because I don't see animals that far away but because it is more fun to get closer, and for me more sporting and exciting. Hunting is not just how far away can I hit an animal but if I can outsmart it and its senses. That said I practice to 300 yards with rifles capable of much greater distances. You never know when that animal of a lifetime is going to be slippin into timber at dusk on closing day! I would say choose a good rifle capable of the ranges and use a cartridge in the mid range of power ie; 243 win on the light side and 270 win or 308 win, and it is hard to beat the 30-06 without bruising your shoulder. My mid range gun is a 30-06 but when the critters are likely to be on the other side of the county I use a 338 win mag. The 338 takes some getting used to with heavy recoil and muzzle blast.
 
I have to add that if your wondering about the most insane over the top chamberings available it would have to be the rounds based on the 378WBY, the 30-378, and 338-378.

I own and reload for 300WBY& 340WBY, and they generally considered grossly overpowered and I seldom shoot them anymore. They hold 90gr+, the 378 based rounds hold 120gr+. they were originally developed for the U.S.Army for high velocity research, but caught on with the long range target crowd, and are now factory offerings from Weatherby.

the factory ammo is $100+ per box and recoil and muzzle blast are awesome.I have one friend who hunts elk with a 30-378, his is a rebarrelled Vanguard with an integral brake. I don't think you could fire enough rounds to sight in w/o a brake and not injure yourself. He claims 400 yd kills, and with this cartridge I don't think that's unethical, because if the Guns and Ammo calculator is correct the 30-378 has more retained energy at 400yds than the 30-06 at the muzzle.
 
i think at one time the 257 wby would have held the title but now with the .30-378 and the 7mm stw, rem 7mm and 30 ultra mags and the warbirds the title would have to go to one of them.
 
Don't know the specifics because I haven't studied them..
But I do know the .260 Remington is a favorite among long range precision shooters for flat-shooting. Factory hunting ammo is limited, but it's out there.
 
It does little good to recommend a caliber difficult to get ammo for, especially long range paper punchers with very few hunting loads. And, those hunting loads don't fly as flat, due to the different construction and purpose of the bullets.

Point blank range is the distance you zero at to get no more than 6" bullet drop. For most 30-30 loads, it's in the 250 yard range. After 350, bullet drop becomes significant, but can be compensated. What is more important is loss of energy. Once velocity drops under 1,200 to 1,800fps, expansion also becomes moot. Hunting bullets are designed to reliably expand only over a minimum threshold speed.

There's a lot more to it than which shoots flattest. Plus, most hunting takes place under 400 yards, and the majority of shots in woodland and edge generally are less than 180. At typical ranges, the .30-30 really is a laser beam, because it's still in the portion of it's ballistic curve where it's mass allows carrying enough energy to overcome it's drag, and there's no significant drop.

Under 400 yards, the real consideration is how much power you need, and smaller calibers do significantly well. They still carry enough power for medium game. A lot of hunters would actually be better off not using the heavier calibers over .308, because in use, they anticipate recoil and accuracy suffers. It's hard enough to spot game and sight in during the few seconds they are visible, no sense making things worse knowing recoil is going to smack you with 35 to 60 pounds of force. Getting a scope jammed in your forehead just once isn't forgotten.

In general, picking a caliber has tradeoffs. It has to fit the action you plan to shoot, and be available. The bigger the bullets diameter, the more power it can absorb, but the less aerodynamic it's shape when limited to the same overall cartridge length. Fat, short bullets can carry more initial power, long skinny bullets can carry it further, both have a limit where speed, expansion, and bullet drop are no longer effective.

Again, in general, and on medium game like whitetail or hogs, calibers under .30 and case lengths less than 50mm do ok. Going beyond either dimension puts it back in the "full power" category of significant recoil that can affect the shooter, and requires a larger, heavier gun.

If there is one thing hunters generally agree on, it's that rifles over 8 pounds need a significant reason to justify carrying them miles into the backwoods. Hence the popularity of the lever action, vs. military issue battle rifles. The latter are more likely to get shortened and restocked. It's exactly why they are no longer issue. They are too heavy and have too much recoil.

Avoid the magnums, pick a popular and effective intermediate caliber, and enjoy the day hunting.
 
i think at one time the 257 wby would have held the title but now with the .30-378 and the 7mm stw, rem 7mm and 30 ultra mags and the warbirds the title would have to go to one of them.

The 257wby shoots much flatter than the 7mm rem. No experience with the rest of them.
 
Point blank range is the distance you zero at to get no more than 6" bullet drop.

Not exactly. MPBR is the distance that will give you no more than X amount of plus or minus (hold over or hold under). That X amount varies depending on the game you are going to shoot. MPBR for a woodchuck hunter is going to be different than MPBR for an elk hunter. My personal tolerance is 3" for shooting deer and hogs.
 
matadurr, my feeling is that you're attaching way too much importance to "flatter shooting" as a need for hunting.

First off, for 90+% of deer shooting, the distance is less than 200 yards. Darned near everything is plenty flat for 200-yard shooting. Next, there's not a whole heckuva lot of difference to 300, for all practical purposes.

When you start tallking about distances beyond 300 yards, well, that's not really for a beginning rifleman. To be good "out there" with field positions, no benchrest: A good bit of skill at doping the wind, estimating the distance and knowing the trajectory of ANY cartridge are very necessary for a clean, ethical kill.

From a practical standpoint, a .243 or .270 will kill any game critter walking around Kentucky.
 
Whoa

Didn't realize I was going to spark this much conversation. I believe I need to clarify a few things. I have only been hunting for about 5 years, and I'm looking for a powerful, flat shooting, and not-too-heavy gun that will serve me for a lifetime that I will use for target shooting, to hunting anything from whitetail to coyotes to hopefully elk if there ever gets to be an open season for them (now we rely on a lottery system).

I'm not too worried about recoil, I believe I can take a punch, but at the same time if whatever caliber you all recommend is wwwwaaaaayyyy too expensive, then I probably won't be able to afford to shoot it much. Thanks for the comments so far though, I'm learning a lot, because the only two calibers I've ever been familiar with are the .243 and the .270, both of the guns my Dad mainly uses.
 
IMHO, the 7mm-08 strikes a near perfect balance between recoil, energy and trajectory for a big game hunting round.

For small game, in factory loads, there's nothing like a 204 Ruger, except the venerable 22-250. For handloads, a 35gr 22-250 shoots flatter than anything else I've ever seen.... Muzzle velocity can exceed 4,500fps from a 24" barrel.
 
Elk? Off the cuff, I'd say a 7mm08 or a .270 would be good starting points to consider. Anything in that general class to maybe a bit more Oomph.

But with any centerfire of that size, taking up reloading is a way to do a lot more shooting for a given amount of money. One reason for 30-caliber is the availability of lead bullets for target practice; they're much, much cheaper than jacketed. Less wear and tear on the gun and the brass, as well.

Reloading gear lasts more than just one lifetime. Some of my reloading gear is over sixty years old.
 
Reloading

Yeah, Art Eatman, that's why I'm wanting to find one (maybe two) really good rifles for my life, because I want to get great at shooting via target practice, plinking, and hunting. Even though it will set me back around 500-600 dollars, I believe a good reloader will pay for itself ESPECIALLY if I stick with just a couple calibers (I'm wanting to get a S&W .357 magnum, a good hunting/target rifle capable of really reaching out there, a Glock .45, a couple .22 LR although they can't be reloaded haha, and a good beneli shotgun)
 
Select a caliber for 85% of what you plan to do. Attempting a broad, do it all approach will mean including conflicting issues.

Elk? Some say minimum .308, I chose .30-06. In that regard, it's about 30% too much weight and recoil for shooting whitetail in the Ozark highlands under 200m. It gets carried by my sons much more than I bother with it, who leave me with my Fudd lever action. Ironically, the Winchester 94 is better suited when you look at the package as a whole.

I'm finishing up an AR build in 6.8SPC, which I can use on deer and hogs. The caliber suits just as well, fits the action, I'm used to it and have more time on foot with it 22 years Reserves. Familiarity counts for a lot, and having enough gun is the point of the cliche - not more than you need.

When looking for solutions, drop the extremes, and you find most of the solution in the center 85% of the need. That's the answer - and then the infrequent times it's not, you get by. Squirrels take .22's, elk the other end of calibers. No gun would do both jobs well at all, so don't consider answers from those quarters.
 
Greetings El Matadurr, and welcome aboard.

Because of the way you asked your question, you've limited your responses to a discussion about bullet velocities and what's appropriate for which game. In reality, I suspect you want recommendations on what system is appropriate for your anticipated range of game animals.

Some members have responded with the term point blank range in their post. Isn't that what you're really looking for; a system (gun and cartridge) that will deliver a decent point blank range?

Point bank range
is determined by more than than your bullet's response to gravity. It's all about the trajectory's vertical off-set from the line of sight. An old school rifleman's method of getting a flat shooting hunting rifle is positioning his scope a little higher. It's easier, and cheaper, than getting pounded by some super-mag hi-vel custom cartridge. If you don't understand the geometry behind this, that's okay -- just use a ballistic calculator and compare the line of sight to the trajectory with short and tall sight positions -- the results will speak for themselves. The height of the scope is an important factor that is often overlooked when selecting a new gun and cartridge.
 
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