FL and bringing guns to work...

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PunchPaper

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I have read news that legislation to allow people to bring guns to work
(but leave them in their cars) is gaining traction here in Florida.

Pretty funny for my job because they won't allow you to smoke in your
own car on company property!

I don't smoke but I think that is pushing it.

I like the idea of not having to come home unarmed late at night.

Hooray, Florida! :D
 
The "no guns, even in your car" thing has always struck me as ludicrous. Although it makes sense to those who possess neither sense or weapons others know better. Namely, that the car is a better weapon than the gun for an offensive encounter anywho.

People kill each other with cars all the time, presumably accidentally.

If a person already has a car being scared of a gun in that car is indicative of some deep mental problems. The mentally challenged or evil opponents of freedom always cite the scenario of the "hothead" getting a gun from their car for an impromptu rampage.

Seems that if they have the car they will either drive to their guns, or ignore the rule in the first place if they are inclined to use humans for target practice. Somehow those of small mind or evil intent are trying to sell us on the notion that a rule or law will stop monsters. As if.


Hooray for Florida indeed!! Hope Florida and I are both around when the Mrs. can retire from here state job so I join in the freedom down thar.
 
Well said Perldog.
Hitting someone accurately and with deadly force is probably a lot easier with a car compared to a .45!
 
As much as I support the RTKBA, I also support the freedom of private entities to dictate what they allow on their property. If an employer does not want guns, alcohol, drugs, condoms or cupcakes on their private property, either comply or find employment elsewhere.
 
As much as I support the RTKBA, I also support the freedom of private entities to dictate what they allow on their property. If an employer does not want guns, alcohol, drugs, condoms or cupcakes on their private property, either comply or find employment elsewhere.
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ABSOLUTELY! So if I want to prohibit shirt and bra possession for women between 18 and 25, I can do that! Or if I want to prohibit union brochures, canes/walkers/crutches/eyeglasses, etc., I can do that too. Right?

In reality ... there are many limitations on what you can/can't do on your property once you open it up to the public. If one is right, they all are right -- or at least legitimate for legislature to enact laws on. And most of those aren't going to go away whether you are a strict libertarian or not.

If as a society we decide that we are safer if people have a legal right to keep weapons secured in their cars, then we can pass/enforce that. If business owners don't like that ... there is no law ANYWHERE that they have to provide a parking lot.
 
I find amazing the number of people who rigorously struggle to preserve a freedom which they have an interest in, but who give not a second thought to walking all over the rights of people struggling to maintain different, yet equally legitimate freedoms.
 
How can a corporation have property rights? A corporation is not endowed by a creator with rights, as a corporation is a fictional entity.

One could easily say that a corporation need not follow fire codes, or product safety laws. "If you don't like it, don't buy it."

The fact that a corporation is owned by individuals does nothing to add to the rights of a corporation. Collectively, a group of individuals that ban together to avoid liability do not have more rights than a single individual. Yet, to allow a corporation to have the same rights as an individual, while at the same time allow the owners of that corporation to avoid all responsibility for their actions is to grant rights to the stockholders that are superior to the rights of the patrons.

“Corporation: An ingenious device for obtaining profit without individual responsibility.” Ambrose Bierce
 
Who cares if a corportation can own property. Not the point.

The STATE already allows me to carry a firearm in my vehicle on a company's property. It is 100% legal under state law and the company cannot stop it.

What the law proposes is that if I WORK for the company, that company cannot FIRE me because they find a firearm in my vehicle. And how do they FIND that firearm in my vehicle? They have to SEARCH my vehicle. How about my property and privacy rights?
 
Grym ... property ownership is not that simple of a legal prospect. Maybe it should be in some perfect liberetarian country/universe ... but we live in the US. A darn fine country by any standard, but not one in which property ownership is sacred.

i.e. ... I have a sidewalk in front of my house. All the neighbor kids walk on it. Technically it IS on my property and I pay taxes on it. But I can't remove it ... I have to keep the snow off of it ... I can't limit who can walk on it ... it's an easement. A little something I have to maintain for the general public to use.

LIkewise I have a gas pipe running through my yard (as well as utilitily lines and etc.). While they are on my property ... I cannot cut them if I want to, or stop a utilities worker from accessing them. If I build a structure over one and the utility company needs to get to them ... guess who gets to pay for removing that structure? Again ... it's called an easement.

And of course there are the minerals/oil that may be below my property. If I discover gold or oil, it legally doesn't belong to me. Because I don't own the mineral rights to my property.

Even while on my property, I have to follow the laws and can be prosecuted for breaking them. I basically hold a license for a piece of property, not a place that I can create my own tiny little sovereign nation (Petertopia, anybody?)

There are many realities as to why private property isn't just private property. The inability of companies that choose to provide parking lots for public use to stop what people leave locked in the cars on that parking lot is one of them.

So please ... no more whining about people not respecting a company's right to its property. I also have rights, and there are intersections of rights.

That's what laws are for.

And there's nothing wrong with making/enforcing a law that allows people to have a gun or whatever in their locked vehicle while in a parking lot.
 
If I have a weapon locked in my glove box, and I keep my mouth shut, and the state says it's ok, what's the problem. If I'm stupid enough to go in, and start shooting my mouth off to my employer telling them I have a weapon, and it's not there business, then I'm looking for a fight. Lock the weapon up and keep you're mouth shut.
 
I have a sidewalk in front of my house.
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LIkewise I have a gas pipe running through my yard
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And of course there are the minerals/oil that may be below my property
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The first two are easements (thanks for the lesson though:)) and you bought your property knowing that. The third happens to be because you didn’t bother to purchase the mineral rights for your property. Who's fault might that be?

Note that none of these facts preclude you from deciding who may park in your driveway and whether the vehicle can contain a gun, a crossbow, a case of beer or a tray of oysters Rockefeller. Unless of course your driveway is also on a public easement, in which case I’d like to park my RV there. Sorry ‘bout the inconvenience, but ya know; you’re only the property owner! You really don’t have any say over what goes on there!

If you’re willing to have legislated what someone can do with their property, don’t complain when the same legislature outlaws your guns.

Sounds like the whining is coming from the hypocrites.
 
You guys are worrying about state control of firearms in private vehicles on property owned by corporations when the State of Florida currently has legislation being debated to regulate the amount of toilet paper a resturant must have available in their bathroom?

They already regulate everything there is to do with private property. Feel free to call me a hypocrit if one piece of their regulations happens to benefit me.
 
Feel free to call me a hypocrit if one piece of the regulation happens to benefit me.
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Hope the roll don't come up short while you're reading the paper.:) Actually, if they're gonna legislate it, could they make it Charmin? That supermarket brand will take the blue off my gun, not to mention....
 
Again- how does a CORPORATION have rights? It does not exist, except on paper. The idea that a Corporation has exclusive rule making ability on land belonging to it is ridiculous.

Can Disney sell cocaine on their land? Can IBM sacrifice virgins? Can Winn Dixie require employees to have sex with Corporate executives?

Of course, the answer to the above is "No." You see, even when I am on your property that you have invited me (and the rest of the public) onto, you are responsible for my safety (this is even true in your home).

The fact is, when you open a building to the public, you have certain responsibilities. You need to provide fire exits, fire extinguishers, use approved construction standards, meet code restrictions, etc. That is part of the price you pay for opening to the public.

Don't like it? Don't open to the public.

Your house is different. It is not open to the public. Even then, there are restrictions you still have to meet. After all, you are connected to public utilities, a public street.

Call me a hypocrite, but I am not going to let myself become a victim to a violent crime to save some company a few bucks on their insurance premium.
 
Call me a hypocrite
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When you claim that your rights trump mine you are clearly demonstrating your hypocrisy and calling you a hypocrite is tantamount to standing in a pea-soup fog and proclaiming “it’s humid today”.

If you think corporations don’t have property rights I suggest you examine just what a corporation is. I think you’ll find that at least in this country, at this time, and because they actually are entities owned by collections of individuals, they have property rights very similar to those of individuals. They have exclusive rights over the use, the services and the exchange of the property.

You keep talking about opening up to the public. Well, we’re not talking exclusively retail establishments here. But yes, an entity that is an employer is subject to some several regulations intended to protect its employees (fire extinguishers, exit signs, machine guarding, etc.). But merely allowing others on the property does not mean they lose the right to determine the use of the property, so they do indeed get to decide if you can carry a gun on your person or store it in your car.

I’m confused! I would have thought that gun owners, whose rights are constantly under attack, would be among the most vocal and adamant proponents of all basic rights.

It’s a sad day for me.
 
More business' need to ban women wearing bras and tops.. it is their right after all.... Lemme know when and where...
Brent
 
Rights are not an all or nothing thing. When the rights of individuals overlap, there are no absolutes. My rights don't trump yours, but by opening your business, you voluntarily cede certain rights. For example, simply because I am on your property does not give you the power to demand that I allow you to beat me. When you have a business where you have employees, you are still open to the public, with the employees being the public.

As far as corporations:

They are a fiction. They do not exist, except on paper. When the constitution was written, it was written based on a concept called "natural rights." A natural right is one that is claimed to exist even when it is not enforced by the government or society as a whole, while a legal right is a right specifically created by the government. Natural rights are the rights of the individual, and considered beyond the authority of a future government or international body to dismiss.

A corporation has legal rights, which are totally different.

Be sad all you want. Your right to save a few bucks on insurance does not demand that I become a victim to a criminal.
 
divemedic,

Just remember that when legalizing the violation of one set of rights, you may no longer count on the support of those whose rights you’ve violated when the rights you hold most dear come under attack.

All of our rights are sacred and they all work together. Violating any of them weakens all of them. I think you understand that concept as it relates to individuals, but your prejudice against corporations prevents you from seeing the bigger picture.

It appears we’re going to continue to disagree here and further discussion seems pointless. Go ahead and take another stab at me, but barring something new, I’m done with this one.
 
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