FL and bringing guns to work...

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Still just the same old unsupported statements, eh? You've now made 40 posts arguing the same points (changing the minds of no one) that a court case that rules against property owners for a different right (1st amendment) is actually proof of property rights dominance, that the ruling in Okalahoma that ruled against property rights is a likewise a victory for property rights ... so I ask again: what is the color of the sky in your world?

Its blue for people who aren't blind.

If this property right you dream of is so prevalent, where are all the clear victories where local laws, passed for public/employee safety, were overruled because owning property means you don't have to care about public/employee safety.

Answer: You have no such references, because it hasn't happened. Laws, particularly about public safety, ALWAYS trump property rights.

Lloyd Corp v Tanner; Nollan v Cal Coastal Comm; Dolan v City of Tigard; Kaiser Aetna v. US, Loretto v. Teleprompter Manhattan CATV Corp...

And thats just to name a few. And by the way, there isn't a SINGLE court that views this as a public safety issue. Thats you and you alone.


LOL -- very true, as there is no law that forces a property owner to let people smoke. So he can ban it at will (as he can anything not protected by law). But in many states, an employer cannot ALLOW smoking on his property, at least within a building. So the state/local government has taking away the control of whether people smoke/don't smoke on that property. Just like it's about to take away the aiblity of the employer to ban firearms locked in cars on his property.

No its not. Smoking bans are enacted because of health standards. Health standards have nothing to do with firearms. Yet another example of drawing comparisons which just aren't applicable.


A law was passed prohibiting employers/property owners from allowing smoking in work areas/restarurant areas ... employers/property owners are no longer allowed to let people smoke.

And the basis of this is health. You can't light up indoors without affecting someone else. It stays in the air and gets in the food.


A law was passed forcing employers/property owners to provide access to disabled americans ... employers now MUST install expensive elevators, ramps, etc. irregardless of whether those improvements will bring in more money (i.e. if I run a store selling pogo stocks, wheelchair access ramps will not provide me any income and are not a smart investment. But the law forces me to do them.)

And while I disagree with this in principle, it still isn't applicable to firearms. Again, this goes to the nature of a business. If you are going to run one, you are going to have to have it accessible to everyone. However, there is no liability or danger involved in making your shop accessible to disabled people. Disabled people are not objects, they are people. It would be one thing if we were comparing race to disability, but we aren't. As such, this is both legally and logically irreelvant.


A law is passed that workers at most job levels must be paid overtime for more than 40 hours per week, irregardless of any employment contract they signed to the contrary (california) ... law is enforced and people who never got overtime before get overtime.


Still the nature of the business. Still no liability. Still not dangerous. Still irrelevant.


A law is pass that employers/property owners must allow workers to have weapons locked up in their vehicles in their parking lots while at work ... employers can no longer prohibit employees from leaving guns locked in their card (though there is no law the employer must provide a parking lot, of course).

You see how all that works? You seem to this this is special because it involves evil GUNS!!!. Are you truly a pro-gun guy? You don't seem like one.

No I'm not a pro gun guy, I'm a pro rights guy. WORLD of difference.

As for this law, it does NOT go to the nature of the business. It has NOTHING to do with the business. It does present liability, and it is dangerous. It also violates the employers right to exclude and control what is on his property. Massive honking difference.

But there is even a larger issue that makes your position so ridiculous. If your argument was valid, then you would see it in at least ONE of these private property cases. You don't. In fact, OSHA is the reason why the OK law was invalidated. Clearly if there were a shred of applicablility of these restrictions to firearms in parking lots, the attorneys would have made this argument. They didn't because there isn't.

An absolutely correct statement. And property rights might be a really good thing to absolutely legally protect (another thread altogether). But they aren't. Sorry.

Who is absolutely protecting property rights? You've spent countless posts showing us how business owners can't do this or must do that. There is no absolute protection on property rights. There is, however, protection, and that includes prohibiting weapons from your property.


Sure ... it's all baseless and you can disprove 99% of what I say ... and yet you never do. Are you too lazy to prove your case? You keep making these broad statements and do nothing to back them up.

Already have

-no such thing as property rights
-courts never rule for property rights
-Pruneyard is controlling precedent for gun cases
-states can legislate away property rights on a whim


The bottom line is ... the law passed in Okalahoma and ALREADY survived review based on property rights. That's a fact. So argue against this all you want, but the OK supreme court has spoken.

Becasue why. You keep ignoring this part. The equivalent of this is a championship game in which the team that was favored to win by 50 points didn't show up and the other team wins by forfeit. Sure they "won", but its not legitimate. Everyone knows that they would have lost had the game been played.

Thats EXACTLY what happened here. The court ITSELF says that property rights would have been a winning argument had evidence been presented. You hold this case up as evidence that property rights is a failing argument. Thats your dishonesty and you keep doing it.


If the law survives the OSHA challenge (based on the guns-are-always-dangerous argument) then it will be the law.

It won't.

And it will be law in Florida and the other states. So argue everything you want ... but it will be law. And your "property rights" will have no effect (unless you can convince all those judges they are just liars for not trusting your internet posts).

I suggest that you read the 5-6 pages of the opinion where the judge determines that this law infringes on property rights for the EXACT reasons that I've been arguing in this thread.

However the irony and beauty of this case is that when the OSHA ground is upheld, it will be binding on ALL the other states, including yours, because of preemption. Thus the OK court has done all the work to invalidate your law. Had the court decided just on property rights and not reached the OSHA issue, it would have been more difficult to use this as precedent in other states.

Since it did however, it will be easy peasy booting your law into oblivion.
 
So an employer can fire you for being armed when not on their property and off work? (assuming you didn't agree to this in your employment contract) I don't think so.

Time to rethink. Florida has at-will employment and does not have public policy or implied contract exceptions.
 
However the irony and beauty of this case is that when the OSHA ground is upheld, it will be binding on ALL the other states, including yours, because of preemption. Thus the OK court has done all the work to invalidate your law.

No, they merely came up with a creative way to get rid of a pro-gun law. Just like the creative use of the commerce clause for the other gun restrictions.

You can call it beauty, gloat and do anything else you want, but if it is upheld, many of us uneducated, ignorant peasants see it as a loss.

No reply required. Everyone knows your response.
 
I freely admit my limitations. :) High School graduate only. Manual labor, middle class, $80k/yr., former EM1(SS) on a fast attack submarine and gun fanatic.
 
However the irony and beauty of this case is that when the OSHA ground is upheld, it will be binding on ALL the other states, including yours, because of preemption. Thus the OK court has done all the work to invalidate your law. Had the court decided just on property rights and not reached the OSHA issue, it would have been more difficult to use this as precedent in other states.

A decision made in the 8th Circuit (where OK is) is not controlling in the 11th (where FL is)
 
He better hope it isn't. You think the Florida law infringes on business rights? Wait till OSHA gets going- rigidly enforced, this ruling would make all weapons in the workplace prohibited. That means gun stores, or even the owner of the business.

Think about that. That is why this decisi0on will not be upheld by SCOTUS. At worst, this is an 8th circuit problem.

ETA: At this point, this is a district court decision, which is not even close to becoming a national issue. It hasn't even been appealed to the circuit yet.
 
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