First time reloading for revolver

3

308Loader

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Picked up my first revolver over the weekend. Wife said “why don’t you have one like that” in my collection. Without a good answer I said, “I don’t know, why, do you want one?” to my absolute surprise she said she would like to try one. So, I bought a RI M200 for $230 bucks. Price was good, has good reviews, seems to be built better than some of the other 38’s in the price range, why not. Took her to the range Sunday and now this is her gun. She likes the simplicity of the revolver. Bullets go in the cylinder, latch it closed, Bang X 6, then click, flip and use like hammer or reload. Push rod, rinse and repat. I am pleased she has something she feels good with around the house if I’m out. I know 38 special is a little weaker than 9mm but way better than something she might have a hard time getting into action.

So, to the meat of the question. I’ve never loaded 38 special or rimmed revolver cases. Any thing special I need to look at? Powders in stock at the bench are W231, W244, HS-6, tight group, H110. Bought some FN plated 125’s and have some small pistol primers left. Where should I start? Powder, primer, bullet?

As always thank you for your input
 
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W231 is good for 38 Special and pretty clean burning. I use a Lee factory Crimp die on all mine. Highly recommended.

Other powders I find useful in 38 Special are Unique and 2400 depending on bullet weight and velocity. Lots of load data out there, mine is all Hercules or old school Winchester powder so maybe not useful to you.
 
for 38spl, of the powders you mentioned, HP38 would be my go to.

H110 does NOT work well in low pressure cartridges like 38spl.

I have no experience with W244, HS-6, or Titegroup. I can tell you Hogdon Clays makes a VERY nice plinking load at 3.1g with a 158g LSWC. I mostly load 158g coated lead bullets. I have had good results with HP38 and Power Pistol. Power pistol had the stoutest loads within 38spl load data that I tried. CFE pistol did not burn well, velocities were poor. I think it is similar to H110 that it likes higher pressure cartridges to burn well. Heard great things about unique, but I have never tried it.

With revolvers, don't skimp on the crimp. It does not effect headspace like auto pistol cartridges so use plenty as the gun recoiling can pull bullets out. I prefer to use bullets with grooves or cannelures so I can use a good firm roll crimp. I have used extreme plated bullets in 38. they recommend firm taper crimp. They worked well, however with loads worked up side by side I lost close to 100fps compared to my lead bullets with firm roll crimp.

One other fun thing. Most bullets for revolvers have a crimp groove or cannelure. All you need to do is line the case mouth and crimp it there and your good to go, no fiddling with seating depth.

For bullets I would recommend Brazos. Good quality economical bullets. They are a coated lead bullet. I have had no leading or coating buildup in 38spl. They show back order, usually takes a week or 2 to ship. you get 15lb for 46.50, round 600-650 bullets. they also have 5lb sample packs of any style for $16.45.
https://www.brazosprecision.com/38-Special357-Magnum_c_13.html

I would start with Hodgdons data for the 125s for lead bullets. HP-38 start 3.8, max 4.8.
 
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I don't load 38/357, but I do reload 45 Colt and 454 casull.

I personally believe most people over crimp revolver cartridges. Measure the case at the mouth after crimping and subtract it from the case diameter a bit further down and you can get how much crimp you have. A test you can do is load 6 rounds in the cylinder, fire 5, and mark the remaining round. Load another 5 rounds, but not firing the marked round. Measure the overall length of that round and compare it to your original loaded length(it helps to measure and mark the round before the whole test). You could probably start at two thousandths crimp, measuring the one round after the first firing and continuing if there is no jump or setback happening, and increase the crimp by like .002 and going until you don't get any bullet movement. You'll probably find you don't need a ton of crimp. I see people crimping 44 Magnum way harder than I crimp my 454 casull that I load pretty hot. That might be a bit of extra work, and it might also be I do more bench rest shooting so I tend to try to get as little neck tension as needed, but I do find it helps.

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Just make sure you don't double charge. It can be easy to do with lighter charges of fast burning powders, and the result can be catastrophic.

After powder charging, I leave all the cases in the reloading block and shine a small flashlight, straight down, on each case, checking and comparing the powder levels.
 
231 and HP38 are the same powder and around 4.5 grains has worked well for me with 158 Lead in 38 for around 900fps but I feed them in a 357 so I'm not worried about reaching maximum for the gun like I would in a 38. Is your gun +P rated? If so it should be fine, just check your load books. If not +P rated you might want to go with 4 grains or use a lighter 125grain bullet and a little more powder for around 950fps. That will be light kicking for sure. The other thing you have to do is make sure to roll crimp enough to get a firm crimp of the case mouth into the groove but not so much you smash the heck out of your bullet. Auto pistol crimp can be adjusted after your get a bullet seated to the correct depth with no crimp, simply by backing out the seater and screwing the die down with the ram up until you feel resistance from bullet and case by firmly tightening by hand. Then drop the ramp and screw in the die maybe 1/4 to 1/2 twist more and when you raise the rame you'll fee a little resistance and the case should be nice and flat against the bullet for a good firm crimp.
Any more and you'll crush an auto pistol bullet and when you break down he round you'll see it's deformed. With the revolver a cast bullet and most jacketed 38 bullets will have a crimp groove and you want to visibly roll the end of the case over into the groove but not too much to crush things. Once you have the bullet in to the right depth with no crimp, back off the seating stem and do as above until you feel resistance screwing the crimp die down with your hand. Then lower and raise the ram gradually turning the die and remove the round each time to eyeball the amount of roll crimp until it looks like a factory round. Then lock it in place on the press, set your seating stem down and you should be good to go to seat/crimp just like with auto pistol rounds.
 
W231 would be my choice. H110 is not a good choice.

As for crimping, just crimp into the crimp groove enough so lip doesn't catch your finger as you go from bullet to case. Don't need much at all.

Example .45 Colt round.
 

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How much crimp you need depends on the power of the load, the lightness of the gun, and the heaviness of the bullet. That is, the higher the power, the lighter the gun, or the heavier the bullet the more robust the crimp needs to be to keep the bullets from backing out of their cases and jamming cylinder rotation. This happens because recoil pushes the gun back. This means the chambers in the cylinder push back on the rims of all the cartridges remaining in it. The bullet's inertia tries to keep it in place, so when the push back on the case is stronger than the crimp's hold on the bullet, the bullet starts to back out. Think of the cylinder as an inertial bullet puller, but instead of the cartridge case being stopped while the bullet continues forward, the bullet is stopped while the cartridge case is slammed rearward.

Two extreme examples: I used to shoot my Dan Wesson heavier-than-a-K-frame revolver with 6” ribbed heavy barrel shroud in matches using wadcutters in 357 cases with a light load of Bullseye. I actually used a taper crimp with these to extend brass life beyond what roll crimping would allow. Gun heavy and charge light; no problems.

A friend of mine obtained a short barrel titanium revolver in 45 Colt. Neither handloads nor commercial loads using 250-grain bullets can be used in it. No matter how hard you crimp, the bullets in the unfired cartridges wind up sticking out beyond the cylinder face. He has to settle for shooting nothing heavier than 200-grain bullets to avoid the problem. Light gun, heavy-ish bullet, big problem.

To keep crimps consistent, you want the lengths of your cases to be consistent. Check them with a caliper. If you need to trim them to match lengths you can do it with Lee's inexpensive trimmers.
 
My personal "standard" for initially setting crimp is a factory round. I run the seater die body down until it firmly contacts the crimp of a factory round, then add just a fraction of a turn more, and go from there.

If I have no issues with that amount of crimp, that's where it stays. If I do have issues, then I adjust, accordingly.

I recommend you only get bullets that have crimp grooves and load them to that depth. FORGET about COAL specs, being slightly longer or shorter in a revolver hurts nothing. So long as your bullets don't stick out the front of the cylinder, you're fine.

Too much crimp or crimp in the wrong place (outside the crimp groove) can bulge or even buckle the brass, crush the bullet and even reduce the amount of "hold" the case has on the bullet. Brass can be bulged too badly to allow it to be chambered!

There are lots of little tips and tricks about crimping most are for dealing with a specific situation. Generally, don't crimp more than you need, do it right, and you're fine. Do it wrong, and you can have ammo you can't use.
"done there, been that....:rolleyes:"

Uniform brass length is the key to uniform crimp without needing to adjust for each individual round. This is most important if you are loading on a progressive press. You need everything uniform, because a progressive doesn't give you the feedback "feel" you get with a single stage press and so there's nothing to tell you if something is wrong during the loading process.
Done that, too...:(
 
Thanks for all the reply’s. I didn’t see H110 listed for 38 but threw it in just in case it had some usefulness I wasn’t aware of for this application. So I am down to HS6, Tight Group and W231 as powder candidates. Is W244 so new that their isn’t much data for it? Or is it not the do all that 231 seems to be? Looking at the Hodgdon site TG gives better velocity than others at less pressure. Having used this powder in other chamberings I am aware of its down sides. With that said I’m going with W231 for the first batch of test rounds. I do have a # of HS6 I would rather use up first, but have read that the unburnt powder residue can be problematic in a revolver (or any pistol in my opinion). Case fill would probably be better, pressures seem on par. Would this work better in 38 than 9mm?

As for bullets I went with what I could find, Berry’s 125 FN Plated. No crimp grove. Anyone have a good COL for these? Was thinking of using the bullet COL 1.403 I got for the factory FN I could find. The blazer bullet seems to be a more rounded the berry’s.

Brass will be Blazer for now, or until I can find a ready available source of other. Need to find a trimming method for these. Don’t have a Lyman EZ mandrel for this case yet, one click away.

Primer will be Fed #100 for now. Only one on hand for SPP. Have plenty of SRP, but have different need for those.

Went with the RCBS #18212 3 die set. Loaded one dummy round. Seems like bullet is bulging on one side a little. Haven’t measured, just going off visual. Drops In the cylinder just fine.
 
Berrys lists a col of 1.445 for 38spl with the 125g flat.

Hogdon has loads for w244
Lead rnfp start 4.4. Max 5.2
Xtp start 4.7, max 5.2

Did you flare the case mouth before seating? It helps getting the bullet going in straight.

As far as case fill, general there will be a lot of empty space. My understanding is it was designed as a black powder cartridge originally thus the low pressure and high capacity case.

For brass, as long as you don't mind somewhat dirty once fired, check no bull tactical. You will have to call and order over the phone. no online orders. Ordered brass from them several times. It dirty cause its swept up from indoor ranges, sorted, and bagged. Cleans up great. Shipping is USP flat rate, they will fit as many in as they can.

250pcs for 18.99
500pcs for 33.99
1000pcs for 64.99
2000pcs for 127.99
 
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308Loader said:Powders in stock at the bench are W231, W244, HS-6, tight group, H110. Bought some FN plated 125’s and have some small pistol primers left. Where should I start? Powder, primer, bullet?
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W231 powder...Period. @38 Special pressures, the component variables, and the pressure curve it is a good powder to cut your teeth on. W244 can be a good safe second. HS-6 and H110 are not appropriate.

With W231 you can sub. primers, brass, and bullets with a proper work up and stay within the limits of the 38 easily.
 
W231 is a fine powder for .38 Special loads.

HOWEVER

DO PAY ATTENTION!!! For most .38 special loads your charge of 231 will be between 3 to 5gr or so.

The .38 Special case will hold almost 3 times that much powder!!

A DOUBLE charge of 231 is almost guaranteed to blow up your gun!!!

There are two choices to ensure safety, one is weigh each charge then put a bullet on it so another charge cannot accidently be added.

The other way, and the usual recommendation, is to put your charged cases in a loading bloce, and then under a good light, look straight down at them to see the powder level being the same in all of them.

Any case you even SUSPECT to be higher or lower than the others, take out and weigh,,and recharge if needed.

This, of course assumes you're not using a progressive press. If you are, the best you can do is look into each case after it gets charged to see the powder level and, hopefully recognize a serious over or under charge before going on to seat a bullet.

Its not rocket surgery, just a little bit of brain science and people have been doing it safely for well over a century. You CAN screw it up, with results I guarantee you won't like, if you don't pay attention and apply the proper controls and scrutiny in your reloading process.
 
44AMP saidDO PAY ATTENTION!!! For most .38 special loads your charge of 231 will be between 3 to 5gr or so.

The .38 Special case will hold almost 3 times that much powder!!

A DOUBLE charge of 231 is almost guaranteed to blow up your gun!!!
Click to expand...

That advice holds to most of the powders best suited to 38 Special. It doesn't matter if it is Red Dot, Promo, Green Dot, Unique, 700X, AA#2, A#5, et. al,
 
44 AMP said:
W231 is a fine powder for .38 Special loads.

HOWEVER

DO PAY ATTENTION!!! For most .38 special loads your charge of 231 will be between 3 to 5gr or so.

The .38 Special case will hold almost 3 times that much powder!!

A DOUBLE charge of 231 is almost guaranteed to blow up your gun!!!

There are two choices to ensure safety, one is weigh each charge then put a bullet on it so another charge cannot accidently be added.

The other way, and the usual recommendation, is to put your charged cases in a loading bloce, and then under a good light, look straight down at them to see the powder level being the same in all of them.

Any case you even SUSPECT to be higher or lower than the others, take out and weigh,,and recharge if needed.

This, of course assumes you're not using a progressive press. If you are, the best you can do is look into each case after it gets charged to see the powder level and, hopefully recognize a serious over or under charge before going on to seat a bullet.

Its not rocket surgery, just a little bit of brain science and people have been doing it safely for well over a century. You CAN screw it up, with results I guarantee you won't like, if you don't pay attention and apply the proper controls and scrutiny in your reloading process.
Click to expand...
Didn't even think of this. I have put processes in place so I can't do this by accident.

Put a bullet in as soon as you have dropped your powder.

use a funnel, move it as soon as you drop your charge in.

use 2 loading blocks, or a loading block and an ammo box, take a case out, charge it, out it in the tray.

visually inspect casings.

its easy to see a double charged 9mm, 223, 30-06, the powder goes everywhere. bigger revolver cases, not so much.

On a progressive there are powder level check dies you can use. Its good peace of mind to know for sure it threw the powder, and the right ammount.
 
Is W231 verry temp sensitive? Will be firing test rounds at 20-30F or lower this time of year. Will I need to adjust for inside or summer temps (60-90+F)?
 
In my limited reading it is temperature sensitive. However as long as your within pulished data you should be fine, just lose some speed in the winter if the ammo gets cold. You could use a lunch pail with an empty pop or Gatorade bottle filled with warm water to keep Temps up or simulate hot summer conditions. Hot tap water from your sing is generally around 120f.
 
W231 Temp. sensative.... I load at sea level @ ` 75F. I've shot loads @ 4800' and @ 118F (Past Barstow Ca.). Too many put too much B.S. into temperature sensitivity w/o understanding the high / low of the actual question.

Unless we are talking Arctic / High Southern Desert dichotomy too much emphisis is put on the subject at all but the most most extreme ends of the load data. Some Ball Powders need an extra hot flame to ignite at extra cold temperatures.

i.e. All Ball powders require Magnum primers. Absolute pure B.S.
 
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