First pistol

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Sig P2022 in 9mm. Note: I am NOT a Sig 'fan boy', despite owning a few [P220, P225, P226]. I simply respect them and feel they are worth considering.


For someone who is not well versed in firearms, it has the DA/SA trigger pull like a revolver, with the capacity of a semi-auto, and no safety lever to flip 'off'. It has a simple decocker and, like the Glock, just don't pull the trigger unless you want it to fire.

In 9mm the price of ammo won't be a factor, and is good for both defense and casual recreational shooting.

A bullseye target gun it ain't, but it also costs around $500, give/take $50.


For a first gun, I ALWAYS recommend a .22lr. However, it isn't something for self-defense.

9mm has a milder recoil than .40 or .45, and is cheaper to shoot than either, and, with appropriate SD loads, is something I would feel comfortable betting my life on [but, I prefer .45acp].


CZ is a great pistol. However, if either dad or mom's hands are medium to small, the DA trigger pull isn't the most comfortable [unless you get the BD version], and the safety isn't easy for me to sweep off with my right thumb without changing my grip. The BD is easier to reach the safety [slide mount], but it is an awkward place compared to all of my other handguns. For the 'only' one, that can be trained around.

I really respect the CZ 75 platform, but find it just doesn't fit my hands well enough to justify getting one. I do have 2 CZs: model 24 pistol in .380 and model 52 pistol in Tokarev round.


I really like 1911s and BHPs- yet, they are not as simple to maintain as a Glock or Sig P2022 [or XD, or M&P].

I like revolvers, but, if they go that route- get a 4" barrel at the longest [weight].


Glock/XD/M&P are all great options. Definitely worth checking out.

However, here is one voice for the oft- neglected Sig P2022 in 9mm.
 
Just to throw in something out of the ordinary, what about the Springfield XD-e?

9mm = cheap ammo.

Specifically designed to be easier to rack the slide, and I can vouch that it is indeed very easy to rack.

Comes with a fiber optic front sight that's pretty easy to see, which makes it easier to train and improve with the gun.

Actually fairly heavy for being a single-stack gun, which helps with the felt recoil.

DA/SA action, which does provide some margin of safety with the heavier first pull, or can be cocked-and-locked. Trigger is decent but not great -- but then very few stock 9mms have "great" triggers.

Holds 9+1 rounds, which I would think is more than enough for home defense, especially when considering 5 or 6 round revolvers as options.

It doesn't sound like your in-laws will be looking to trick out their gun with all kinds of aftermarket options, but you can switch out the sights, and there are a few laser options if they are interested there. My parents have trouble seeing the sights well and the laser has made it much easier for them to shoot and practice shooting.

Anyway, after reading all the posts so far, I thought I'd throw a curve and suggest you/they at least go and check this one out. Can be had in .45 also, but the recoil will be quite a bit more harsh, ammo more expensive and capacity greatly reduced. I think 9mm would be a much better option all around.
 
I like the 686/GP100 suggestions, assuming the OP wants something that big and heavy. Not everyone does, but on the plus side of course .38 Spl will shoot very softly and if you feel you want more horsepower than that down the road you are already there.



When I read the requirements my first thought was for a Model 10 if .38 Spl will suffice. You could get a pre-owned specimen in good shape and essentially a lifetime's worth of ammo for the stated budget, I would imagine. Ticks all the boxes...
 
Does he want to come in at the top of that price range, taking pride and confidence from having spent the most to buy best in class? Or would he prefer instead to get something that's more at the bottom of his budget, taking pride in getting a nice, reliable shooter that's "just as good" for half the dollar figure most guys blow.

Depending on the answer to that question I might recommend differently, and I also agree with others who have said that just because he won't carry it he shouldn't automatically get the biggest possible gun. These massive 6" revolver recommendations are pretty darn large and heavy, so what if it's just for home defense that's still a factor, unless he's huge he might not like the balance. I have many friends who prefer my sp101 to my gp100 because they don't have a ton of upper body strength and firing the Gp100 for more than 30 minutes wears out their arms (I know, I know, but I merely report my findings).

Other considerations: Does he want polymer or a "real" gun? If he wants metal I think stainless lr aluminum should be favoured because occassional shooters don't always clean their guns as religiously as some of us on this forum and "reliable" and that ought to be considered.

As for guns specifivally, here are a few options I'd recommend running past the old man. Explain the trade-offs and see what his responses and preferences guide you towards,

Revolvers: They've got to be stainless IMO, and they're all super low capacity so who cares if it's 5, 6, 7, or 8 tbh, but the 8 shot redhawk might be the best choice if weight means nothing to him Revolvers are no more reliable than semis, but much more simple. I recommend using 38spl mainly even thoigh all these guns are offered in 357. Sadly, there are no good budget revolvers JMHO, but I threw the brands to scrutunize if interested on the budget side.

Redhawk in 357 Magnum
686
642
Gp100
Sp101
Taurus
Charter Arms
RIA
EAA

Polymer Strikers: This is likely where you want to steer him IMO. 9mm is cheap, magazines are cheap on the glocks at least, and the striker operation is real straightforward. Glock is "the" pick, but there are loads of good options. They're all so similar choice should be made on look and feel.

Glock 17
Glock 19
M&P
Sig p320
HK VP9
Xd/m
PT111
Canik


Metal guns: In his price range there aren't a ton of great options, SIG is out of reach and so the old standby 92fs or a budget CZ are all I see in the cards for him. Does he want a safety or a decocker basically

92fs
CZ75
Tanfoglio
 
Not going to do the whole pedigree thing, but I've been doing this for nearly half a century.
Ive learned a lot, and relearned even more.
Heres my opinion for what its worth.

When someone comes to me wanting their first firearm and asks for suggestions, generally I suggest they DO NOT buy a handgun, but rather a PCC. In all my years Ive found new shooters take to a PCC like a duck takes to water. They are far easier to use and be proficient with than any handgun, they inspire confidence, help foster good habits, and are a heck of a lot of fun (esp for new folks).

I will explain to new folks my reasoning but often the best way to make the point is to put the options in their hands, I first train them on the PCC, then after a decent amount of time provide a handgun (often one they originally thought they wanted) and its game over. Almost everyone ends up buying a PCC, the very few who didn't were wanting to CCW (or just stubborn) and even then about half of those ultimately ended up with a PCC. In all my years, no other firearm has proven to win over and retain more new shooters than PCCs, not even close.

For the last 15 years Ive been using to train and ultimately recommending the CX4 Storm. Its relatively lightweight, has a compact feel, operates very similar to a pistol, and is rediculously reliable. Add to that the fact that it uses common pistol (92FS & PX4) magazines, so it is also a natural progression if someone wants to later get a handgun. It also fits your price range (ETA: note that Beretta ships them to U.S. in batches, when they start to dry up prices go up until the new batch comes in)

Ive put the Storm in new shooters hands and they trounced even highly experienced shooters using pistols, and had loads of fun doing it. The long term difference between new shooters who started on PCC's versus handguns I've found interesting as well.... A much MUCH higher percentage of PCCs shooters go on to further themselves in shooting sports & activities than do those who started with a handgun.

I believe this is entirely due to the confidence they build from day one.

Now, if they truly insist on a handgun I've found options that had great success, while others that proved to have far less. What do I mean by success/failure? Continued regular practice long term, followed by advancing further into the sport by going clubs/leagues, purchasing additional firearms, additional training, CCW, etc, would be considered a success. Sticking the gun in a closet, practicing only a few times a year (if at all), no real interest beyond initial purchase, I would consider a failure.

So where have I found the most failures?
-Micro guns of any caliber
-All compacts in 9mm and up
-Most compact 380's
-Short barrel revolvers
-Full size revolvers in anything other than 22/38

So what does that leave?

Some really GREAT choices!

-Single Ten
-SP101 in 22lr
-3" LCR in 22lr
-3" SP101/GP100 using std 38
-PX4 9mm Full size DAO
-Beretta 92 DAO
-L9-A1
-(mystery gun)

Ive had more success with any ONE of these than all the other handguns Ive used combined.

I know the first thought of many will be "You can't use a 22 for home defense" Well if you believe that you're a fool, and if you hear someone say that... tell them they're a fool. While a 22 may not be ideal, the reality is there are some people that will never feel comfortable with anything more (some elderly & handicapped people simply cannot physically). They will be FAR better served with a 22lr that they regularly practice with, then with ANYTHING they rarely practice with.

Next likely gripe: "38 is too weak" -or- "Its only got 5/6 shots"
If you think 5/6 rounds of 38 Special isn't capable, well.....see my comment above about being a fool. A standard load or (my favorite) a 148gr wadcutter is more than capable, very light recoil with almost no blast, a pleasure to shoot in a full size revolver. They are also less operationally complex than a semi-auto which then helps with confidence, both aspects combined make them somewhat 'safer'.

Now on to the DAO duo, well, what is there to say? Full size make them easier to operate for full size people, both absorb recoil wonderfully, whats not to love. "But DAO triggers are dumb!" Whats the word Im looking for? Starts with an 'F'....?

DAO triggers rock for new shooters, no safeties or de-cockers to mess with. No DA/SA transition. Deliberate pull for safety and to help develop good trigger and grip technique. Over the years Ive retrained many an experienced shooter that came to me struggling, the first thing I did was slap a DAO (or revolver) in their hand. They are harder to master early, but in the long run help make people better shooters.

And finally on to the mystery gun....oh what might it be....(cue whimsical harp playing)

I never thought in a million years that I would ever recommend something even close to this for a new shooter, or for an experienced shooter, or frankly even for myself. Well it starts with an S&W and ends with an EZ. Yup the Shield EZ by S&W, a single action 380. I was humbled by the damn thing the first time I tried it at an invitational event, and I ordered a pair before I left for home.

Everything about it really is 'EZ' making it prime for a new shooter. Easy to load, easy to rack, easy to grip, easy to operate, easy to shoot. A wonderful trigger, stupid light recoil, all in a package that is large enough for a grown adult male, yet not so big that a small framed person can't easily use. Everything about it is Goldilocks "just right", which actually pains me to admit because I had sworn off S&W for over a decade after getting screwed on some crap products from them.

The EZ has actually worked its way into my CCW options shelf and has become a regular when clothing/conditions are set. I ended up buying several to use as loaners for classes, they are also quite popular during range 'fun days'.

So whats the TLDR synopsis exactly? :confused:
Meh... (shrugs shoulders) ...most will ignore and do what they want anyway :p
Im just killing time at the airport until some late family members get here so I can fly them home :cool:
 
Last edited:
Stats Shooter said:
The inlaws are not elderly, they are 59 & 57 yrs old. But, they have both shot everything from my 44 mag on down to my ruger Mk 3. But I dont have many revolvers. And the father in law is one of the least mechanically inclined human beings I have ever met. Which is why I was looking at revolvers for him. But I dont have a 38 for him to try, or a 9mm revolver.
Click to expand...
9mm revolvers are not beginner or novice guns. They have an odd sharp snap to them that turns off even many experienced shooters. Ive known guys that regularly shoot 44 & 357 mag including out of small revolvers, pick up a 9mm snub and not even finish the cylinder. Its not that its a hard recoil per se, but rather the sharp snap, especially with older folks.

Read my long-winded reply above, especially about the 'mystery gun'. Ive put them into the hands of a bunch of older folks and they have all loved them. One of my neighbors has been an avid shooter his whole life, he turned 50 when arthritis set in and he's had to all but give up shooting entirely. I had him try one and it blew his mind because he can actually use it with no issues.
 
They have an odd sharp snap to them that turns off even many experienced shooters
Click to expand...
I happen to agree with this and is why I usually bypass them for something with a bit more umph. I don't speed shoot comps though.
 
A lot of good comments on here. We tried several guns yesterday. The front runner right now is the s&w Model 60 3" shooting .38's. It will shoot .357's and he and i shot a few of them through it. The .38's were mild though we didn't shoot any +P stuff. The .357's were noticeably more stout, but not unmanageable.

The s&w 60 and Ruger 101 are comparable. We fired both and I found the trigger in the smith a bit better. Other than that I didn't see much difference.

The 686 he thought was a bit heavy. We didn't shoot a GP 100 but I surmised it wouldn't be enough different from a 686 to fool with.

We did shoot some poly frames including my own G19, aM&P 40, G17, My wife's shield 9, among others.

Anyway....it looks like it is down to the Ruger 101 and Model 60
 
Stats Shooter said:
A lot of good comments on here. We tried several guns yesterday. The front runner right now is the s&w Model 60 3" shooting .38's. It will shoot .357's and he and i shot a few of them through it. The .38's were mild though we didn't shoot any +P stuff. The .357's were noticeably more stout, but not unmanageable.

The s&w 60 and Ruger 101 are comparable. We fired both and I found the trigger in the smith a bit better. Other than that I didn't see much difference.

The 686 he thought was a bit heavy. We didn't shoot a GP 100 but I surmised it wouldn't be enough different from a 686 to fool with.

We did shoot some poly frames including my own G19, aM&P 40, G17, My wife's shield 9, among others.

Anyway....it looks like it is down to the Ruger 101 and Model 60
Click to expand...
If the SP101 is in contention I would highly suggest the model 5719.
Which is the 3" with the fixed (notch) rear sight.
IME novice shooters have a much MUCH easier time learning the set-up as compared to the adjustable and even 'hi-viz' sight models.

No matter the revolver chosen, if its in 38 I would suggest not wasting time/money with +P loadings in 38 Special. The reality is they offer no practical benefit over standard or even reduced pressure loads, especially for novice shooters. Don't fixate on exotic HP loads, the majority of loads that open do not penetrate far enough. And the majority of ones that penetrate far enough don't open.

As an avid handgun hunter I can attest that bullet expansion in the common handgun calibers is effectively meaningless as compared to proper penetration. Gel 'tests' do a great job of selling $2.00 per round cartridges in pretty boxes, but do little else in terms of real world effectiveness.

3 Yards
3 Rounds
3 Seconds

Practice
Placement
Penetration
:)
 
We tried several guns yesterday. The front runner right now is the s&w Model 60 3" shooting .38's.

The 686 he thought was a bit heavy.
Click to expand...

Far be it from me to criticize hands on trials, BUT, was a K frame S&W .38/.357 (models 10, 13, 14, 15, 19, 64, 65, 66) in the group? That has been the Goldilocks choice for 118 years.
 
Brownstone322 said:
That was my first thought too. The original post specifically said "ammo cost needs to be considered," then I see a litany of recommendations for .38 and .357 and now .380, all of which are poor relative values. What?

As soon as requirements include ammo cost, 9mm becomes a runaway winner, especially considering: (1) Modern 9mm JHP is highly effective, and (2) there are a LOT of fine 9mm handguns to consider.

Concealment wasn't a requirement, but reliability was, so I'll repeat my recommendation: The Glock 17/19/19X/45.

BOOM.
Click to expand...
9/38/380
In brass case there is about a 7cpr spread among them, which = $3.50 per 50/rds
In steel case there is only about a 5cpr spread, which = $2.50 per 50/rds

If that sort of spread in price is 'make or break', then it wouldn't matter anyway because they likely can't afford to practice regularly, so it's really a wash. Which then brings back around my consideration of starting off with a 22lr revolver, of which even top shelf ammunition costs less than half of entry level brass 9mm.

As a bad guy I would be far more fearful of a 70 year old granny with a 22 that practiced regularly, then a 30 something tuff-guy with a 10mm that shot a box once or twice a year.
 
but what the heck Berretta 92FS.
Click to expand...

That was my first thought as well.

Talk about low maintenance and reliable!

Recoil is nothing, shoots where you aim it, Ammo costs are low, its affordable... Checks all the boxes!
 
Stated Criteria:
1. First pistol
2. Target Shooting
3. also for Home Defense.
4. Has experienced shooting handguns
5. low maintenance (most guns made today)
6. Reliable - Most guns over $400 or so
7. Not for carry
8. Moderate recoil; also can presume guy in his 50's+ as he is a father in law
9. $750 limit
10. Highly available inexpensive ammo is important
11. Since this is the semi-auto forum, I will limit to semi-autos.

Here are my recommendations:

1. CZ 75B 9mm in Stainless Steel - $700
2. Used S&W 5906 9mm - $400 - $500
3. CZ 75 SP-01
4. Grand Power K100 9mm $475 (polymer frame)

I chose these because all of these are da/sa with either a safety, hammer drop or both. All use a hammer and not a striker. All can easily be purchased new, except the S&W, as the 5906 is no longer made. All of these will be very rugged, reliable, not easily scratched, serviceable for a long time. I almost added the Beretta 92, but just couldn't because I am not a fan of that gun, but I am sure it would be a decent choice too.
 
Stats Shooter said:
We tried several guns yesterday. The front runner right now is the s&w Model 60 3" shooting .38's. It will shoot .357's and he and i shot a few of them through it.

Anyway....it looks like it is down to the Ruger 101 and Model 60
Click to expand...


I'm late to the party, but I have to ask: Did he try shooting it DA? I'm all for the revolver, but as a SD/HD weapon, I strongly recommend it be practiced in DA.

You said in your OP that your FIL "is looking to get his first pistol to begin target shooting with my mother in law", so if they're like most, they'll generally shoot by just cocking the hammer. The trouble is, in a stressful situation, they'll do as they practice, and cocking the hammer in such a situation is very bad mojo.

If he/she aren't willing/able to make DA shooting their default, I'd recommend something like a striker-fired polymer semi-auto.
 
I thought I had typed LR/WMR above but just noticed I didn't.

Do not discount a revolver in 22 Magnum, barely any recoil, accurate, and plenty lethal. The 3" 6-shot LCRX has a great trigger, is lightweight, accurate, and fun. Even a 4.6" single six is a great package, LR for a cheap range trip, then swap out to the WMR cylinder for protection. Proper WMR is typically 2-3cpr cheaper then even the cheapest brass 9mm.

But I'll still stick with my statement that a PPC is the best first firearm as well as great HD package. Suggest that they go to a rental range that has one and give it a try.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top