First outing with the new gun, very disappointed

My defense scenario is this:

I live in a two-story house, with all bedrooms upstairs. There is a single set of stairs leading up to the 2nd floor, and the master bedroom door is at the top of those stairs. There's a light in the staircase that is always on at night, so I can clearly identify any target coming up the stairs. I would be shooting down, away from all the upstairs bedrooms, and if I miss there is no innocent target in that line of fire.

If someone were to break in, I'd be down and to the side of the bedroom door and stay there, looking for any intrusion on the stairs. If they mess with my stuff downstairs, I'd stay put - my insurance will take care of what they take. If they step foot on the stairs, I'll respond to that as a threat to my family and will stop the threat immediately. They'll be met with a 00 welcoming committee. Besides, if I were to go down the stairs, there is a 20' exposure on the side facing the front door and I'd have to cover two directions if I go downstairs. It's a long set of stairs, about 40 feet, which is why I'd like some way of aiming instead of pointing.
 
I agree with HotDogs two posts above, although your group size seems to have differed since it was quoted to me before. Then again I may be confusing you with someone else......



Anyway, the OP needs to look up the Hogue youth stock for this gun. I believe they have a 12" LOP and are nice and beefy. Im a fan of the Knoxx products myself, but the cheekweld/sight issue can be a proclem on some setups.
 
You need to get it off the sand bag and supported by your off hand in a normal firing grip. Having your hand "on the barrel, holding it down" is a variable that will keep your groups scattered forever. Even if you stopped holding the barrel, resting it on the bag can cause problems. The Mossberg attaches the barrel to the mag tube, and the forearm travels up and down this tube. Since the barrel and tube are connected, pressure on the forearm or tube can and will cause problems. This isn't a problem with most rifle because the barrel is free floated in the stock so resting the forearm on a sandbag doesn't cause a pressure point. You might even find the gun groups differently with a certain number of shells in the tube. Load single rounds or find a happy medium, not full or empty, to sight in with. Then after you've removed that variable check and see what a full or empty tube does to your groups.

As for the bolt unlocking, it happens when you don't hold the forearm. My 500 will even cycle like that on light target loads.
 
Details

This might be an opportune time to remind shooters that any optic sight with typical adjustments noted to move "x" per click at 100 yd., needs 4 times that many clicks to move the same amount when 4 times closer i.e. 25 yd.

Some shooters do backwards math and figure that they need very few clicks to move a substantial amount at a very close distance, when in this one instance, shows the opposite:

optic with 1/4" click adj. at 100 yd. = 4 clicks to move an inch
same scope at 25 yards = 16 clicks to move an inch

Therefore, for example, if off 5 inches at 25 yards, you need 80 clicks to get on target. I have seen plenty of shooters move 2 or 3 clicks at a time at a 20 yard range and wonder why the impact has not appeared to move, but due to the adjustment only being altered 1/10-1/8" might be hard to visually spot in a shotgun target. Add any flinch or other shooter error and there will be a day wasted in that endeavor.

Keep these details in mind when any shooter is having trouble with prompt zeroing at a close distance. You should be able to measure from the very first careful shot and calculate an adjustment to be in the bull area for the next shot.

Kirby
 
although your group size seems to have differed since it was quoted to me before.
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RBW, For the record, I must confess a few things... First, I never ever quantify my results with actual measurements. I never keep targets for comparison. A group can be 2 quick rounds or it may be several 5 or 6 round full loads. I have, on occasion had repeated bona fide tight groups where a cigarette pack covers 3 shots... RARE!!! But what I insist on to qualify myself as a meat hunter is to put any number of slugs into a typical pie plate at 60 yards. Yeah I get the "flier" but I am real hard on myself for those and do try to find the exact variable error that caused it.
I am no super shooter, But I am a fairly lazy guy who despises a drawn out blood trail. The only good blood trail is the one headed straight to my truck...
Brent
 
Kirby, Are you pulling my leg? That is 180 out from my learnin... To move the POA/POI 1 inch at 100 is 4 so 200 is 2 and 400 is zero?
I am of a different boat load...
4 at 100 is 2 at 50 and 1 at 25 with anything under that needing sights.
Brent
 
More clarification

HD, you are halfway to understanding, now.

4 clicks to the inch at 100 yards is 2 clicks/inch at 200 yards, but is ONE click per inch at 400 yards, since every doubling of distance reduces the click measurement by half.

Now tell me what the measurement is for one click at 800 yards. Don't peek, The answer is at the bottom of the post.

Then you might want to re-state your position on sight adjustment.















Figure it this way:
one inch at 25 yards has an included angle that must be able to have twice the amount of base of the isosceles triangle when the distance to the base is doubled, or trebled, or quadrupled- to make one inch at 25 yd. equivalent angle of sight adjustment the same as 2" at 50 yd., 3" at 75 yd., 4" at 100 yd., ad infinitum.





















2 inches per click at 800 yards for a 1/4" click scope at 100 yd. adjustment division.

Kirby
 
All shotgun shooters who actually hit something point the damn thing. NO ONE looks at the sights, unless shooting at something stationary; like a target or possibly a deer, when slugs are used....or maybe buck.

No trap or sheet shooter what actually shoots a high score ever looks at the sights on that thing. At least not consciously. I've often wondered why gun makers up those orange plastic sighs on shotguns to be used for flying targets.

I shoot my Parker Single Barrel Trap gun with both eyes wide open and my head held quite high. This way I can swing to the bird easier. I'm only slightly aware of pulling the trigger.

A shotgun is a short range weapon. If used as self defense it'll likely be used in a confined space. Since a miss can cause injury to others bird shot is always the best load.

If, however; one is in combat and knows that one will be shooting at people, then nothing smaller than no. 4 shot should be used. (cops here, load 4's) We found in Vietnam that a shotgun was a better forest penetrator than was the M-16. In VN guys often used buck. Shotguns were very popular for inclose fighting in the bush, but it took guys some time to come to this realization.

I liked the M-14 and hated to see it go.

For combat a shotgun is a wonderful weapon. I see those fancy sights, but can't for the life of me figger out their benefit, since one points a shotgun.

BTW: I don't understand why some of you guys get so excited! I've been shooting for way over 50 years and have shot just about everything that shoots, from machine guns, full auto weapons, canons, bloop guns to flint muskets, Sharps rifles, Winchesters of all kinds, a bunch of pistols. You may disagree with me; and that's fine. Shoot what you want, and with what you want, but I've been around the block in the shooting biz and have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about.

I have to admit that my collection and my experience is pretty limited to iron and open sights. I use a scope on hunting rifles, of course, but I've never used a laser sight. When I left active duty the scoped M-16's and M-4's were just coming out. I have pistols with scopes, but don't like them. New fangled sights leave me cold, but that's not to mean that they aren't good for other shooters.

As for the few rude people out there; I suggest you lighten up. We are all gun nuts aren't we? Let's talk guns then and leave the invectives to ourselves.
 
Did the heat shield do whatever it is a heat shield is supposed to do? (I don't think rattling counts as the purpose.)

Where's the bayonet? You know you want a bayonet. I think you are required to have a bayonet to offset the collapsible stock or pistol grip only.

I think you get the point. Remove the mall ninja stock, heat shield, and the red dot then go shoot it alot.
 
Kirby, 800 yards? I could put a brick on the gas peddle and a bungee on the steering and not hit ya! You done thru a rifle wrench into a shotgun situation!
Brent!
 
Did the heat shield do whatever it is a heat shield is supposed to do? (I don't think rattling counts as the purpose.)
Click to expand...
It did just what it's intended to do - no hot barrel to grab. Short barrels, especially thin-walled ones, have less mass than a standard one and get hot pretty quick. And no, it doesn't rattle.
Where's the bayonet? You know you want a bayonet.
Click to expand...
I have no interest in one.
I think you are required to have a bayonet to offset the collapsible stock or pistol grip only.
Click to expand...
Whatever. :rolleyes:
I think you get the point. Remove the mall ninja stock, heat shield, and the red dot then go shoot it alot.
Click to expand...
Did you read my first post where I explained why I got the stock?
 
I may not like red-dot sights, but a heat shield on a SG is pretty useful from my experiance of getting singed :o
 
Did the heat shield do whatever it is a heat shield is supposed to do? (I don't think rattling counts as the purpose.)
Click to expand...
It did just what it's intended to do - no hot barrel to grab. Short barrels, especially thin-walled ones, have less mass than a standard one and get hot pretty quick. And no, it doesn't rattle.
Click to expand...
Well, I've been through a few shotgun courses. Getting ready to be sent back to another by Uncle Sam. Shot hundreds of shells in the same day. Never needed a heat shield.

I admit I don't carry a shotgun (I carry an M4) but qual with an 870 (and an UMP 40) enough to maintain proficiency. Our agency puts almost all the fancy expensive contraptions on them you can imagine, including a mix of Eotechs, Aimpoints, and Trijicon scopes... even NVGs. Our shotguns have 14 inch barrels. Some have collapsible stocks but most have short length of pull stocks (I like the latter better).

Yet none of my firearms instructors--most of whom a gurus by any definition and some of whom are nationally recognized instructors and competitors-- have ever felt the need to put a heat shield on our shotguns. I figure the rest of you can get by without it also.
 
Let me also add that at a younger age... far younger age actually... I've made most of the mistakes I now try to get you guys to avoid (pistol grip, heatshield etc).
 
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Maybe you posted it someplace but I don't see it..

What kind of barrel? What kind of slug?


Sabots in a smooth bore are not going to do much of anything good.

I use my own cast slugs that are sabot slugs and I can hit a 3lb coffee can every time... But if I was to slap a scope on it I'd probably be unhappy.
 
It's a smooth bore, and I was shooting rifled slugs. I figured out one thing I was doing wrong with the sight; apparently, the lock screw only locks the elevation adjustment. You're supposed to adjust the elevation, lock it down, and then adjust the windage. I was trying to do both at the same time and then locking it. A few days ago I waited until the evening when it was near dark so I could see the laser spot from the bore sight, and then found that the sight adjustment was WAY off. I dialed it in and it should be reasonably close - probably as good as I need it to be for HD with 00 shells.
 
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