First Home Defense Pistol Advice

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I'd go for the hammer. The hammer on a DA/SA has a half position where it's not on the firing pin nor cocked like my HK USP V1 9mm. I carry mine like that with a round in the chamber.

Another pistol I trust is my Sig P250c 40sw. It's DAO and has a long but easy trigger. Also safe to carry with a round in the chamber.
 
I won't carry with it (at least not at first) it'll be a home defense pistol on the nightstand.

Be sure and consider how you will store it for quick access if you have any concerns about it just laying around. There are lots of choices these days. Welcome to The Firing Line.
 
I personally love CZ pistols. Granted most of them are a bit over your $400 price range but are exceptional firearms for the money.

I own a CZ 75B and would bet my life on it's accuracy and reliability. I have shot the P07 and Phantom and they are great guns as well.

I did see a CZ P09 in .40 cal for under $400 on Buds.

There are many good reliable pistols out there in your price range though. It comes down to which one fits your hand and needs best.
 
The best firearm for home defense is an endless Internet debate. The shotgun is often considered the king of home defense, but in addition to portability most also have an issue with capacity. Even with my extended magazine I still only have six rounds to work with. It would be fine if television was reality and one shotgun blast sends three thugs flying through the air, but in fact that's not the case. At seven yards my 12 gauge yields a pattern of only 4", so misses are still likely, especially against a moving target in the dark, and six rounds may come up short. An AR15 may be a better choice if you can accept the potential over-penetration issues with your misses.

I keep my 12 ga loaded at bedside, but also like a 17 round 9mm semi pistol nearby and would grab it first if I woke to intruders in the house. Since police officers average 75% misses in a firefight, I'm willing to trade fire power for capacity and can still retreat to the shotgun if needed.

Re the OP's questions, the problem with manual safeties is remembering to switch them off when in a total shaking panic. Lots of practice can reduce this issue, but I am very comfortable with a DA/SA and knowing that when I pull the trigger the gun will go bang.

TomNJVA
 
G. Willikers is quite right. Owning and being skilled in the use of a firearm is not all there is to surviving a deadly-force encounter. But the prospect of surviving such an encounter WITHOUT a firearm and the skill to use it well is a grim one, indeed. I think loftier thinkers in the world refer to it as a "necessary but not sufficient" condition.

I think your decision to procure and become skilled with a firearm is prudent. Just don't stop your preparations after you've become skilled.

About the possible choices you listed:

1.) I've shot 3 different Beretta M92s, and 5 or 6 of the Taurus clones. All but one of the Taurus clones shot noticeably tighter and more reliably than the 3 Berettas.The one that didn't shoot better shot groups so close to the size of the Beretta groups that the difference wasn't worth mentioning.

2.) I have no experience with the Ruger 9E, but I have bought, carried, and used Ruger products for all of my adult life and a good part of my childhood. They are invariably rugged, easy to use, and (usually) reasonably priced firearms, on which I would readily depend for my life. I would expect the the 9E to be no different.

3.) I am currently shooting a C-100 Canik as a sort of "endurance test", and have been delighted with it. Its DA/SA design allows the owner to carry it in condition 1 ("cocked and locked") if desired, or with the hammer down on a loaded chamber ("condition 2", I believe?). It has shot every type of factory ammo I've fed it, and a number of handloads that other more expensive 9mm pistols had trouble digesting. If the C-100 can still be purchased for between $300 and $350 where you are, I consider them the best "new in the box" buy among the centerfire auto pistols. I obtained mine from a local "Academy" sporting goods store. The C-100 does not come with a decocker. It has a thumb safety, which prevents the piece from being fired until pushed down by the thumb of the shooting hand. Personally, I find decockers an inadequate attempt to obviate the need for thumb safeties, and have seen my share of negligent discharges as a result of depending on them too much.

4.) I'm not familiar enough with the other pistols you list to render a meaningful judgement about them. I would stake my life on the pistols on which I HAVE commented.

5.) Try to avoid pistols which become inoperative when the magazine is removed. This mechanism is sometimes called a "magazine safety" (ironically) or "magazine disconnect". The ability to cover an opponent with the remaining round in the chamber while reloading is one of the salient advantages of an automatic pistol over a revolver. This "safety" feature negates that advantage. I am convinced that this feature was dreamed up by Ralph Nader and a committee of closeted gun-haters who, after inflicting their invention on the gun market, all fled in different directions, never to meet again.
If you cannot make the hammer fall by squeezing the trigger with the magazine removed, I strongly suggest that you reconsider purchasing that pistol. The only exception which comes to mind is the excellent, though expensive Browning P-35 (sometimes called "Hi-Power"). Its magazine disconnect can, mercifully, be removed fairly easily, and it usually improves the trigger pull, in the process.

No need to apologize for "long posts" here. I seem to be the "poster child" for that particular malady, and I make no apology for it.

One last thing... Please DO try to work the purchase of a pump-action or automatic shotgun into your budget, somewhere. The "schlick-schlack" sound of a round being chambered in one of those is sometimes enough to discourage would-be intruders from pressing their agenda. If they are unwise enough to continue their plans to intrude, they face almost certain death at the muzzle of one of these.
 
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I am going to repeat the advice to get training first.

Second, I'd suggest that you try renting the pistols you are interested in and trying at least two or three different type actions before making your decision.
 
I get so tired of people repeating "training, training, training" on every thread that starts with someone wanting a first pistol. There is nothing wrong with getting a pistol w/o "training". Will you want ti someday, possibly, if you don't feel your competent enough to do what required without it. Can you run the drills, read about safety practices and "train" all by your self? Well, I did, and I happily shoot my firearms very well despite being relatively new. I personally know some professional "trainers" and ya'll can keep em.

The T-100 is not small by any measure. Pretty big and heavy, although slightly lighter with the alloy frame. The pt111 is a decent pistol, but is not am HD pistol, IMO, and not something I would prefer to learn on. Again, for what you want, I would pick any of the Tri-Star's, preferably with the hard chrome finish if alloy frame, black if steel frame model. Yes, the safety can be used with hammer down, up, or half cock.


Rested on range bag on camp chair, 25 yards.
 
The PT92 you listed is a great bang for the buck(pun intended), and has a pretty solid reputation. It meets all of your criteria, as well. It is DA/SA, can be decocked, and has a manual safety, as well. I would go for one before I would a Beretta 92 (go ahead, call me a blasphemer), mainly because the Beretta safety is in an inconvenient location, and the sweep on it is backwards from what I find to be intuitive.

I wouldn't worry about the hammer, either. Modern hammer fired handguns aren't going to go off when dropped.
 
You will be surprised at how your thoughts on guns change as you buy new ones. This time last year I would have never considered a Glock because of the short trigger pull (with no manual safety). Flash forward to now and I own two of them. I've made my way back to the light side though with a nice DA/SA Sig, so all hope is not lost for me.

When shopping for DA/SA pistols I prefer the lack of a manual safety for reasons mentioned all across the forums, but it would not be a deal breaker if the gun had one... I just wouldn't use it, the DA pull is enough for me. My guns are never carried without a holster covering the trigger, so it is a non-issue for me. You have seen this already, but your options are more limited when trying to find a DA/SA with a manual safety. They are certainly out there, just in smaller numbers. Third generation S&W's are something else to consider, and the larger duty sized versions have been easier to find than the smaller ones.

A friend of mine owned a Taurus PT99, and his never had issues. Those are one of the Taurus models that receive the most praise. I had a PT1911 and it was 100% from the day I bought it, until I sold it as well.

I don't care for the location of the safety on the Beretta, and I enjoyed shooting the CZ-75B more as well. If I were to buy a gun with your listed criteria, it would be something from CZ. Berettas are nice guns too, it's just a matter of personal preference. Good luck.
 
I know you're on a tight budget but it would really behoove you to get to a range that rents handguns and try some of the mechanisms.

THIS

While I have no doubt that all of the pistols mentioned above are worthy, until YOU shoot them, you have no idea what you like/dislike or how well you shoot them.

It would behoove you to rent and try as many as possible so as not to waste your limited budget on a great gun that doesn't work well for you due to weight, fit, etc. only to sell it at a loss, and try again.
 
One last thing... Please DO try to work the purchase of a pump-action or automatic shotgun into your budget, somewhere. The "schlick-schlack" sound of a round being chambered in one of those is sometimes enough to discourage would-be intruders from pressing their agenda. If they are unwise enough to continue their plans to intrude, they face almost certain death at the muzzle of one of these.

You hear this old wives' tail a lot. That the sound of the pump will make the intruder sprint from the house. The sound of the slide on a semiautomatic won't do the same? I have yet to read a single published story of this being documented. A smart criminal tries to break in when people aren't home. If they did so accidentally then likely any noise will send them packing. If they did so regardless then you've just announced to them where the danger is coming from.

I had this discussion with members of different reaction forces and SWAT teams in my state. A shotgun is a powerful, versatile weapon. It also takes a decent amount of skill and training to run well. If you're not firing the shotgun you're loading the shotgun and if either of those stop you're in trouble. A pistol back up certainly helps. Honestly part of the reason a lot of officers now carry some form of carbine is that the carbine is typically easier to run well than a shotgun and is often the same length (or shorter) and often lighter. Not to mention that buckshot can tear up sheet-rock and exterior walls like tissue paper where 5.56 tends to fragment. I'd advise carbine.

I get so tired of people repeating "training, training, training" on every thread that starts with someone wanting a first pistol. There is nothing wrong with getting a pistol w/o "training". Will you want ti someday, possibly, if you don't feel your competent enough to do what required without it. Can you run the drills, read about safety practices and "train" all by your self? Well, I did, and I happily shoot my firearms very well despite being relatively new. I personally know some professional "trainers" and ya'll can keep em.

Because training is a good idea. It just is. Can the OP buy a pistol without training? Absolutely. What people are suggesting is that a training course first can help him/her choose that pistol by exposing him/her to different types of pistols in a setting where someone with experience can explain how those pistols work. Public rentals are great, but depending on how busy they are you might get no more help then, "Point it that way."

It's great that you can shoot well. But there is more to running a pistol than shooting at a static range and not everyone has access to a dynamic range. In terms of shooting fundamentals I also learned mostly by myself with a S&W Model 19. The courses I've taken brought my running of the actual pistol, in terms of tactics, malfunction clearances, and movement, to a much higher level.

Just because some people who call themselves trainers are not very good does not make all of them not very good, just as one mass shooter doesn't make all gun owners mass shooters.
 
OP sent you a private message about a deal on a Beretta 92 FS with 5 mags and night sights in VG condition that will get in under your budget.
 
Wow went to sleep, did a few things and returned to an abundance of info, thanks all. Not sure where to start.

Well I guess I'll start off saying what many have said, that I of course intend to at least try to handle the options I narrow down to. There is an academy near me (I'm in wake county NC) those are good? I'll check one out. And I'll look into an introductory course as well. And after I do get the gun I fully intend to visit the range perhaps twice a month as well. Maybe become a part time hobby (which is partly why I'll get the AR-15, funner at the range, obviously not the only reason of course).

Secondly, I didn't know about a "Firing Pin Block", that makes me feel a little more comfortable like perhaps that opens the canik tp9v2 back up to me if it has one (searched google and couldn't find any reference to it actually). Nice to hear about the PT92 as well, it did seem to fit most of my criteria besides the name. (Though you said most newer pistols are usually drop safe, PT92 and some of my options aren't newer pistols, or did you just mean actual manufacture date of that particular pistol and that they've made changes from older PT92's?).

Someone mentioned a mechanical safety in addition to the FPB? Seems like you're talking about another automatic/involuntary safety mechanism? Mind explaining that?

As for the pistol vs carbine vs shotgun argument. I've gone back and forth on which to get first (pistol or carbine) and finally decided that I want both but first I want a pistol. Reason being I imagined scenarios of which would serve me better and while the AR is better in some scenario's (multiple intruders for one) the pistol is quicker to get to and quickest of all I can wear it holstered around the house until I'm comfortable with it (and perhaps one day outside carry as well, not sure if open or concealed) not going to carry an AR-15 around the house with me hah. But I'll get one of those soon anyway and it'll be the first I pick up if a home invasion scenario gives me the time, otherwise I'll still have the pistol (and still a backup when using the AR). But for now...Oh and the shotgun, thought about that and I want something that is also better at the range and better for a little distance. I also don't want something that becomes little more than a baseball bat when a loved one is near the baddy. Finally I don't want something that terminally deadly. I want something that I can just give a warning arm or leg shot if someone is only holding a knife, but can open up center mass if pulling a gun on me. Legal (not to mention moral) aftermath is a thought here as well.

Hope I didn't miss anything.
 
You are in luck there are Berettas in your area from a local dealer that even has layaway for the price you are looking to pay. You can get OTD for $365 or for a VG condition gun grade B or $418 for a excellent grade A gun.

Gun will come with night sights dated 2013 and 5 mags. Go get it and then get yourself some training.
 
Good to hear, I will consider that in my decision. Though if the quality was there I was still kind of liking the PT92 more for the one reason that the safety is in an awkward position on the real Beretta's.

What kind of condition can I expect on a police trade in though (the site you linked in your personal message was lawmens)? And I mean internal/barrel wear. I don't mind some holster wear.
 
This is a grade A gun. If you want it I would not sleep on it. I don't know how many they have... IMHO if choosing between the Taurus and the Beretta I would go Beretta everytime. The Taurus is not a bad gun. One of the better ones they make but you are comparing a low end clone to the actual gun they cloned.

Once you get trained properly you are not going to use the safety on the gun anyway. You will use the safety/decoker to decock the weapon and carry it DA/SA. Believe me when I tell you this the safety feature on the 92FS is there because the US Army wanted it not that is serves any real purpose since you cannot carry it cocked and locked.

 
Hmm I was searching around lawmens.com and under firearms>handguns I get "There are no products matching the selection."

Where are you looking?
 
I like manual safeties but they are really not needed on a DA/SA gun. The DA trigger pull is usually in the 10-12 lb. range which requires a very deliberate and forceful trigger pull. It also affects the accuracy of your first and most important first shot and then puts you into SA which requires a good amount of training to get used to the transition.

My suggestion would be a M&P 9mm with a manual safety. If you have a manual safety you do not need to worry about a DS/SA trigger. You would be doing yourself a favor to take a few classes to get you comfortable with a gun before you buy one. I have known too many people who think any gun will do.

You can look at a CZ 75BD or one of their other pistols. This one has a DA/SA with a manual safety, if I recall correctly. Stay away from the inexpensive guns from new manufacturers. We have no idea if they will be around for long and finding holsters and parts is not as easy as it is with the long established manufacturers.

I used to own a few HK USP guns. They could be carried DA/SA with a manual safety but they are expensive. This kind of setup is more costly to make. Sig is famous for its DA/SA guns and they do not have manual safeties. BTW, all modern guns are drop safe.

You might want to consider a Revolver. They still sell a lot of them and can be found in a lot of homes. You do not seem to have any experience with handguns or semi autos in general. Do you know how to clear the various jams they may have? Are you willing to spend money to find the ammo which the gun prefers? How about shooting a few hundred rounds to make sure it is reliable? Just a few things to consider. A revolver can be put away and 25 years later, can be taken and used. No worries about limp wristing either. You just load it and press the heavy trigger to shoot.

If I seem overly concerned it is because I work with new shooters and most make the wrong choice for their first gun and end up spending more buying another gun that fits their needs better. Consider this, you can get a striker fired gun like a Glock or M&P and keep it in your night table without a round in the chamber. No way that gun is going to go off. When you need it you then chamber a round and then have a decent trigger that will allow you to shoot the first shot more accurately and quickly.

The M&P can be had with a manual safety as you like and you can buy a Saf-T-BLOK for your Glock. I have them on two of my home defense Glocks. Google them, they are not expensive. Your choice of guns seems to be fear driven, fear of the gun and that is not a good way to decide which gun you want. The more protection a gun has, the harder it is to use and requires more practice.

You can also take a look at the M&P Shield with a manual safety. I have one. It comes with an extended magazine so that you get a full hand grip on it and yet use the smaller magazine to carry it. It fits both roles as a carry and home defense gun. Good luck in your search and I am sure that you will get a lot of good opinions here.
 
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