First Gun: HKP7 or Glock 19?

damn, I looked on glocktalk again and the guy that said the P7 has equal recoil to the G23 claims that he also owns both pistols! I've held an empty P7 and the weight didn't seem that bad; I've also held a G23C with a loaded magazine. I haven't compared the weights side by side, but I don't think the weight differential matters that much to me. The extra magazine capacity of the G19 is extremely appealing.
 
According to remtek an empty G19 is 21 oz. and according to hkp7.com an empty P7M8 is 28 oz. The difference seems pretty neglible to me. The approximate weight of a loaded G19 mag is 9 oz. Does anyone know the approximate weight of a M8 mag?
 
I think that you should go with a Glock. Don't get me wrong H&K is a high quality company, but Glock is better for a first gun. They are not called Goof-Proof 4 no reason (Except for Australian Police for some reason...) Plus Glocks are more common, and the Glock 19 is what I think the best Glock is. Hope this help ;)

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Trespassers Will Be Shot
Survivors Will Be Shot Again
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Incursion:
damn, I looked on glocktalk again and the guy that said the P7 has equal recoil to the G23 claims that he also owns both pistols! matters that much to me. [/quote]

OK, do the math. A bunch of us say that the recoil 1) ain't much in any 9mm. 2) is less in the H&K than the Glock. 3) Neither choice is bad. 4) get both if you possibly can.

There are more of us than him. :D

Get both, shoot'em and sell the one you like the least. The Glock is a 4WD truck, the P7 is a Ferrari, they both get you to the same place.

Giz
 
Get the P7M8 first.You will always long for one, and will find few for sale.Glocks are always available, and will be forever.Unless you get one of the best (P7) you will never know what to use to compare anything else with.
 
Don't get either. If you want the best compact 9mm buy a SIG Sauer P228. ;)

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
I have fired the P7 extensively (own both a P7M13 and an M8). I have also shot a Glock 34(9mm longslide target model) for at least a few boxes of ammo. The P7 is superior. The people complaining above about how tough it is to hold down the squeeze cocking grip don't know what they are talking about. Accuracy is amazing. Yes, you should never shoot lead through it...I would not shoot lead through the Glock either, even though it could do it.

Buy the P7. If price is an issue, buy one of the refurbed P7M8's that came back from Germany. Never trade or sell it. Later on, buy a Glock if you still want it.

The P7M13 was my first gun. I have no regrets, and am very glad it was my first.


[This message has been edited by Forseti (edited May 10, 2000).]
 
Hi Incursion;
I don't know why the quickad would say that the P7 isn't fun to shoot. I think my P7M8s are LOTS of fun to shoot, and I've owned this gun & shot it regularly for 15 years. The stiffness of the P7's recoil spring DOES make the felt recoil LESS, but still permits easy retraction of the slide by hand. It's a narrow, flat-profile gun that's easy to carry & conceal. Since it's all steel, it is a bit heavier than the Glock 19, but not noticibly so when carrying it, at least not to me. The capacity issue is easily handled, by the way, by carrying an extra magazine. Since they're flat single-stack magazines, I find it easy to carry two spares. It's actually easier to carry my P7M8 with two mags (for a total of 25 rounds of Remington Golden Saber 124gr 9mm+P) than my Glock 30 with one spare mag (a total of 21 rounds of ProLoad .45ACP 200gr+P), since the Glock and its staggered magazine are fat little critters.
I think very highly of the engineering in both guns, by the way, and I often disassemble my guns just for fun, to admire their designs. Both are well made, nigh-indestructible, reliable weapons. BUT, if you want the 9mm caliber (and I think it IS the overall-best choice in a first gun), the P7 is significantly more accurate & precise than any of the 9mm Glocks.
You asked about weights. According to H&K's recently-published history (H&K Historie 2000, nur auf Deutsch), the P7M8 magazine weighs 70g empty (leer) & 165g full (voll), or about 2.5oz & 5.8oz, respectively. Best.

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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
 
I did leave out one advantage in my previous post that the Glock has over the HKP7M8. Magazine capacity. If you are a piss poor shot or plan to miss a lot then you may want to go with the Glock. When you run out of ammo you can throw the Glock at whatever you're shooting at. With the P7M8 if you miss with your first or second shot you may as well save your ammo cause it ain't the guns fault
 
SAWBONE, my P7M8 generates a right angular momentum when it's in recoil. Sort like to twist to the right. It's the only pistol that does that, feels very weird to me. I also shot my friend's P7M8 and it did exactly the same thing. :D :D :D
 
Hi thequickad;
You're doubtless right about the perceived rightward torque. My P7M8s have the same "twist", but it's nothing much. All guns do that, because of the necessary spin imparted to the bullet by the rifling (I know you know that, just stating the obvious), some right, some left, depending upon the direction of the rifling.
Obviously, like all such matters, this too is one of personal preferences. While one person finds the recoil impulse, torque, or grip shape of a pistol not to his liking, another will think the same pistol is the best there is.
MY opinion-perception is that the P7M8 has LOTS less perceived recoil/torque/muzzle flip, and is far easier to shoot, AND to shoot WELL, than ANY other 9mm pistol extant. So there. (I'm just kidding; no real sarcasm intended.)

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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
 
I have two G19's, and the 22. I use them for IDPA mainly, and eventually carry (the 19). I've owned half a dozen different Glocks (along with 1911's, BHP's), and the reliability is hard to beat. I LOVE the 19.

But... I've shot the P7m8 and have fallen in like. I am seriously considering one. I like the unique manual of arms, and the inherent accuracy. Although I prefer carrying a hi-cap gun like the 19, realistically the 8+1 of the P7 should be fine.

My one reservation: the loud "click" when decocking the gun. This seems like it could be a dead giveaway in a tactical situation. Any thoughts from you that are old hands with the P7? Can you minimize it in any way, is is it not a real concern?

The only other concern is corrosion. The Glock tenifer finish is really superior. I've heard the HK finish rusts easily, and I'm not partial to hard chrome/nickle for a carry gun. What about Black T or Robar of some other finish? Thx
--


[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited May 11, 2000).]
 
Yes, the loud "click" can be minimized. With your finger OUT OF THE TRIGGER GUARD, grasp the rear of the slide firmly with your weak hand. Slightly pull back, about 3/8", until the rear of the striker sinks in flush with the back of the slide. While holding this position, release the front strap. You should hear about 1/2 the sound that you otherwise would.
 
I probably shouldn't be weighing in on this, because I have no experience with any Glocks.

I like the P7. I mean, I really like the P7. Those little pistols have saved my fuzzy butt one way or another many times.

-But-

I don't think either one is real great for a first-time pistol.

Get a Browning Hi-Power, or a M1911.

Umm--if you're in a tactical situation where the 'click' might get you in trouble--why are you de-cocking the pistol?

LawDog

[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited May 11, 2000).]
 
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