I've never owned a gun, but I want to get one soon. What would be the better choice for a first time buyer? I heard the P7 is some what difficult to clean, and I've also heard that you cannot shoot lead in them. I've shot a G23C and didn't really like the trigger that much, but I figure I could just get a trigger job. How easy is it to find hicaps for the G19? How is the recoil compared to the G23C? I heard the recoil on the P7 is not that great because it's a blowback gun. Is the P7 worth double the cost of the Glock 19?
First Gun: HKP7 or Glock 19?
- Thread starter Incursion
- Start date
I recommend the 19. Recoil is light and controlable. I have owned both the 19 and the P7M13. Both are excellent weapons, but I currently only own the 19. The Glock will serve a life time without a hitch. High caps are easy to come by and run around $50 and up. Buy the 19 some nite sites, high caps, a quality holster and ammo. This can all be had for the price of a H&K. The experience you will gain with this package is worth far more than the coolness factor of the P7.
Be Safe
Mike
Be Safe
Mike
I have to agree with Mike. Get the Glock. I own one of the few P7s manufactured in .40 and while it is a great gun, it is not worth double the price of the Glock.
Further, DO NOT shoot unjacketed bullets (lead) in your Glock, unless you buy a conventionally rifled aftermarket barrel for it.
Further, DO NOT shoot unjacketed bullets (lead) in your Glock, unless you buy a conventionally rifled aftermarket barrel for it.
If money is not an issue, and both guns fit your hand comfortably, my vote is for the HK P7 (M8 or PSP, in that order). It is a much more forgiving design for the first time gun owner. You can not accidentally discharge the P7 with an object (like an errant finger) finding its way into the trigger guard, unless you have squeezed the cocking lever. This is not true of the Glock (just ask some Aussie coppers about that problem 
).
Both P7s and Glocks have polygonal rifling in their barrels precluding the use of unjacketed lead projectiles.
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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!
I hunt, therefore I am.
).Both P7s and Glocks have polygonal rifling in their barrels precluding the use of unjacketed lead projectiles.
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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!
I hunt, therefore I am.
Sam Norton
New member
I Would vote for the P7M8. Most people I've seen that picked the Glock over the HK's Have had something other than the P7. The P7 has a considerably smaller grip than the P13, and I am told shoots better than the P10
The two reasons main reasons I like my P7 over my Glock are, one the P7 is much better for dry firing drills I became a better shooter after I got the P7 because of this. The trigger feels better practicing your double taps. Also I feel more comfortable doing elpresidente drills with loaded mags because you don't have to cycle the slide to reset the trigger, (granted you still have to be careful).
Two, the squeese cocker is nice in high stress situations because all you have to do is let go ot the damn thing to make it safe (been there). I would not want to carry a loaded glock into a coat pocket, the P7 no problem.
Rember you are choosing between two of the best handguns in the world. There is no bad choice.
Best of luck
Sam N
The two reasons main reasons I like my P7 over my Glock are, one the P7 is much better for dry firing drills I became a better shooter after I got the P7 because of this. The trigger feels better practicing your double taps. Also I feel more comfortable doing elpresidente drills with loaded mags because you don't have to cycle the slide to reset the trigger, (granted you still have to be careful).
Two, the squeese cocker is nice in high stress situations because all you have to do is let go ot the damn thing to make it safe (been there). I would not want to carry a loaded glock into a coat pocket, the P7 no problem.
Rember you are choosing between two of the best handguns in the world. There is no bad choice.
Best of luck
Sam N
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TABING:
For my first gun, I got a revolver, a S&W model 19, still have it.
A revolver is a good way to start.[/quote]
I concur with the revolver as a first gun!!!
I'd also suggest going for a .22 to learn shooting. But if you want a bigger caliber, go for a .357 Magnum. Start off with shooting .38 Spl.'s through it.
If you're determined to get a semi-auto, then I vote for the Glock 19...what a superb sidearm!!!
They are also extremely easy to break down for cleaning (after you ensure there is no magazine in it and NO round in the chamber!!!! Also, there is no magazine safety on a Glock (I hate magazine safeties!). Be aware of this!
[This message has been edited by Ezeckial (edited May 08, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Ezeckial (edited May 08, 2000).]
For my first gun, I got a revolver, a S&W model 19, still have it.
A revolver is a good way to start.[/quote]
I concur with the revolver as a first gun!!!
I'd also suggest going for a .22 to learn shooting. But if you want a bigger caliber, go for a .357 Magnum. Start off with shooting .38 Spl.'s through it.
If you're determined to get a semi-auto, then I vote for the Glock 19...what a superb sidearm!!!
They are also extremely easy to break down for cleaning (after you ensure there is no magazine in it and NO round in the chamber!!!! Also, there is no magazine safety on a Glock (I hate magazine safeties!). Be aware of this!
[This message has been edited by Ezeckial (edited May 08, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Ezeckial (edited May 08, 2000).]
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Choosing an HK is never a bad choice.
The P7 is one of the world's BEST. A very good choice.
The P7 is one of the world's BEST. A very good choice.
Hard choice. Buy them both.
I have two HKP7s and several Glocks. Love them.
My P7s are my most accurate 9mms. And due to its width, it is a tad easier to conceal than the G19.
But I shoot my G19 more than my P7. So what does that say? I like the feel and ergonomics of the Glock.
Both can digets rad turds powered by mouse farts.
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The Seattle SharpShooter
I have two HKP7s and several Glocks. Love them.
My P7s are my most accurate 9mms. And due to its width, it is a tad easier to conceal than the G19.
But I shoot my G19 more than my P7. So what does that say? I like the feel and ergonomics of the Glock.
Both can digets rad turds powered by mouse farts.
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The Seattle SharpShooter
I've shot both, and both are good guns. My problem with the P7 (and it can't be that big of a problem since I want one) is the sqeeze cocker. The ones I've shot are tough to squeeze and hold down. It's rather fatiguing on the hand.
Keep in mind that since the Glock is a lot more common, it will be easier to find hi cap mags, holsters, sights, etc., for the glock.
Keep in mind that since the Glock is a lot more common, it will be easier to find hi cap mags, holsters, sights, etc., for the glock.
My personal preference would be the Glock. I have owned both. I have a 19 now and sold the P7 long ago. I liked the P7 well enough for it's accuracy and smooth trigger, but the damn thing got so hot after just 50 rounds. The skirt in front of the trigger guard could fry an egg ( a very small egg ) or raise a nice little blister on whatever body part it came in contact with. I can put several hundred rounds through the Glock and it will just get nice and cozy.
As previously mentioned, the Glock uses polygonal rifling and should only be shot with jacketed bullets, but I believe this is also true of the P7. Those whacky Europeans do love that polygonal stuff. If you do plan on shooting lead, an aftermarket barrel is highly recommended. It will be relatively easy to find one for the Glock and damn near impossible to get one for the P7.
As far as triggers on the Glocks, shop around a little, they do seem to vary quite a bit. My 19 came with a very crispy trigger which I would be loathe to mess with. My 29 was a bit spongy, but I improved it with a new spring which I did myself.
The difference in recoil between the 19 and the 23C would depend much on the loads used. The 19 is a pussycat with most loads however.
After all this, there is only one question, which feels better in YOUR hand?
[This message has been edited by AndABeer (edited May 08, 2000).]
As previously mentioned, the Glock uses polygonal rifling and should only be shot with jacketed bullets, but I believe this is also true of the P7. Those whacky Europeans do love that polygonal stuff. If you do plan on shooting lead, an aftermarket barrel is highly recommended. It will be relatively easy to find one for the Glock and damn near impossible to get one for the P7.
As far as triggers on the Glocks, shop around a little, they do seem to vary quite a bit. My 19 came with a very crispy trigger which I would be loathe to mess with. My 29 was a bit spongy, but I improved it with a new spring which I did myself.
The difference in recoil between the 19 and the 23C would depend much on the loads used. The 19 is a pussycat with most loads however.
After all this, there is only one question, which feels better in YOUR hand?
[This message has been edited by AndABeer (edited May 08, 2000).]
Depressing the squeeze-cocker on the P7M8 takes 12-13lb of pressure, but, once cocked, only 1.5lb of pressure is required to keep the grip depressed, so you really can relax your hand considerably.
The H&K P7M8 was MY first handgun, bought over 15 years ago.
If you can afford the tariff, there's no other 9mm gun in the world as accurate & precise, as easy to shoot well, as quick into action, as quick to reload, as easy to carry for CCW (very flat & compact), and as safe, as the P7. Cleaning isn't hard either, by the way. You just have a little more to do than with the Glocks, specifically the gas piston & gas piston chamber require a little extra attention.
I love Glocks, too (I have six of 'em), but my Glock 19s are no match for my P7s when it comes to accuracy & precision. Now, the Glock 30 is another story...
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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
The H&K P7M8 was MY first handgun, bought over 15 years ago.
If you can afford the tariff, there's no other 9mm gun in the world as accurate & precise, as easy to shoot well, as quick into action, as quick to reload, as easy to carry for CCW (very flat & compact), and as safe, as the P7. Cleaning isn't hard either, by the way. You just have a little more to do than with the Glocks, specifically the gas piston & gas piston chamber require a little extra attention.
I love Glocks, too (I have six of 'em), but my Glock 19s are no match for my P7s when it comes to accuracy & precision. Now, the Glock 30 is another story...
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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
I have to agree with Sawbones on this one. My first carry pistol was a P7M8, and I've never regretted that choice for a moment. Many Glocks and other makes have passed through my hands, but in 13 years I've never parted with a P7. Granted, P7s may not be for everyone, but I've yet to come across anything with the speed, accuracy, handling and concealment qualities that the P7 offers. Takedown and cleaning are a breeze, and rapid fire controllability, trigger pull and sight picture are superior to the Glock. Another one of the benefits of a P7 as a first gun is that you will learn proper grip technique, if nothing else. Once you get used to the squeeze-cocker (a great safety feature, especially for a new shooter), you probably won't find yourself "limp-wristing" any other type of pistol. Plus, the accuracy and reliability can do nothing but help instill confidence in the shooter. We have to trust our tools, right? And as for price, you can get German police trade-in P7s for not a whole lot more than a new Glock. (I did!) But even at double the price of a Glock...yeah, they're worth it.
I have to agree with Sawbones on this one. My first carry pistol was a P7M8, and I've never regretted that choice for a moment. Many Glocks and other makes have passed through my hands, but in 13 years I've never parted with a P7. Granted, P7s may not be for everyone, but I've yet to come across anything with the speed, accuracy, handling and concealment qualities that the P7 offers. Takedown and cleaning are a breeze, and rapid fire controllability, trigger pull and sight picture are superior to the Glock. Another one of the benefits of a P7 as a first gun is that you will learn proper grip technique, if nothing else. Once you get used to the squeeze-cocker (a great safety feature, especially for a new shooter), you probably won't find yourself "limp-wristing" any other type of pistol. Plus, the accuracy and reliability can do nothing but help instill confidence in the shooter. We have to trust our tools, right? And as for price, you can get German police trade-in P7s for not a whole lot more than a new Glock. (I did!) But even at double the price of a Glock...yeah, they're worth it.
Go for the P7. It is very accurate, concealable, quick to fire accurately and the most reliable handgun I've ever owned. I've owned the Glock 19 and several other Glocks. They are fine guns and certainly easier to clean than a P7. Suffice it to say, I no longer own a Glock but I do have four M8's. None of them are for sale!
Best,
Jeff
Best,
Jeff
Hi Sawbones!
Now on to the thrashing!
What is this crap about . . . the squeeze cocker is too hard for me to sqeeze. Quit yo sissy whinnin. That is the first time I've heard that excuse!
Let's get down to the brass tacks. you have to be able to afford the P7. That's a hurdle. But if you save an extra month or two, you can get it.
Second, the real question is how many of us have both Glocks and P7s? And how extensively do we shoot them.
I know some old timers who have literally 200 guns in their safe and they haven't shot all of the yet 5 years later. Some of their guns are still in the wrapper.
Your question of choice should be directed at owners with both guns.
Find out who in the group has shot both guns for several thousand rounds and listen to them.
With probably 8,000 rounds through both guns, my P7 PSP shots 2" groups at 25 yards compared to my G26 which does about 3" groups as that distance.
Mechanically, no glitches from either.
But as stated, glock has the better finish unless you hard chrome your P7.
Glocks have more accessories so that issue goes Glock.
But as I've said before, get both!
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The Seattle SharpShooter
Now on to the thrashing!
What is this crap about . . . the squeeze cocker is too hard for me to sqeeze. Quit yo sissy whinnin. That is the first time I've heard that excuse!
Let's get down to the brass tacks. you have to be able to afford the P7. That's a hurdle. But if you save an extra month or two, you can get it.
Second, the real question is how many of us have both Glocks and P7s? And how extensively do we shoot them.
I know some old timers who have literally 200 guns in their safe and they haven't shot all of the yet 5 years later. Some of their guns are still in the wrapper.
Your question of choice should be directed at owners with both guns.
Find out who in the group has shot both guns for several thousand rounds and listen to them.
With probably 8,000 rounds through both guns, my P7 PSP shots 2" groups at 25 yards compared to my G26 which does about 3" groups as that distance.
Mechanically, no glitches from either.
But as stated, glock has the better finish unless you hard chrome your P7.
Glocks have more accessories so that issue goes Glock.
But as I've said before, get both!
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The Seattle SharpShooter
It aint so!
I must admit, I find it annoying that many replies on these forums come from people with admittedly-little or no experience of the subject under discussion. (eg, a poster asks "Can someone with such-and-such a gun please explain so & so?", with over half the replies reading "Well, I don't have one, but I heard this-and-that...")
The P7's recoil is TRIVIAL, and certainly no more than the Glock 19's. NO 9mm gun has ANY recoil worth mentioning!
Any .40*&* gun has considerably greater recoil than any 9mm.
(Yes, I own two H&K P7M8s, two Glock 19s, two Glock 30s, and a Glock 27, and I sold a Glock 23 recently, so I am able to speak from experience about comparisons among these guns & cartridges.)
Best.
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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
I must admit, I find it annoying that many replies on these forums come from people with admittedly-little or no experience of the subject under discussion. (eg, a poster asks "Can someone with such-and-such a gun please explain so & so?", with over half the replies reading "Well, I don't have one, but I heard this-and-that...")
The P7's recoil is TRIVIAL, and certainly no more than the Glock 19's. NO 9mm gun has ANY recoil worth mentioning!
Any .40*&* gun has considerably greater recoil than any 9mm.
(Yes, I own two H&K P7M8s, two Glock 19s, two Glock 30s, and a Glock 27, and I sold a Glock 23 recently, so I am able to speak from experience about comparisons among these guns & cartridges.)
Best.
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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
thequickad
New member
The HKP7 is an excellent pistol, but it is NOT fun to shoot. It's heavy, the slide is very hard to rack (due to it's gas retarded design the spring is stiff). It's expensive, P7M8 around $1K, P7M13 around $1.2K. The Glock 19 is light, easy to control and holds 15-rd and the Glock quick loader is very user friendly. This is why my P7 sits in the gun safe and the G19 gets a lot of workout. Go with the G19 
