First Gun Help?
- Thread starter DAFL
- Start date
If you're open now to 9mm and CZ then don't neglect the CZ clones! Luv my TriStar T-120. Great light weight full size gun for carry. If the dust cover isn't your cup o' whiskey they also have an L-120. The C-100 is like the CZ compact but has an alloy frame in 9mm. The TriStars are good for larger hands. Even the compact version has a grip and trigger reach tailor made for larger mitts.
If you still think you might like .40 S&W (I wouldn't dissuade you. It's easy enough to get used to) All of these models should be available in .40 soon. The C-100 is good to go in .40 right now as is the P-100 (if you can find one) These are all steel guns though.
The TriStars are very close to the same as CZs at a very nice savings. The fit and finish are not quite the same although it's pretty close. The function is pretty much there though. I couldn't be happier with mine.
If you still think you might like .40 S&W (I wouldn't dissuade you. It's easy enough to get used to) All of these models should be available in .40 soon. The C-100 is good to go in .40 right now as is the P-100 (if you can find one) These are all steel guns though.
The TriStars are very close to the same as CZs at a very nice savings. The fit and finish are not quite the same although it's pretty close. The function is pretty much there though. I couldn't be happier with mine.
Pond James Pond
New member
I'd heavily endorse the CZs as others have done. Some really nice guns there. I had a G19. Personally didn't get on with the grip angle thing, but the gun ran beautifully and was accurate.
The Sig 2022 also seems to have one of those "best kept secret" followings!
Not massively insightful, but my thoughts.
The Sig 2022 also seems to have one of those "best kept secret" followings!
Not massively insightful, but my thoughts.
Cyanide971
New member
Nothing that I can really add that hasn't been already said, but from personal experience and, if I knew then what I know now and was brand new in the market, these would be my three choices for a 9mm/.40, semi auto pistol per firing/ignition method, and leaning more towards compact size:
Striker-fire:
• Glock 19/23
• Sig P320C
• FNH FNS-9/FNS-40
*Honorable mention to Steyr C9-A1/C40-A1, Walther P99 AS and PPQ, S&W M&P 9C.
Hammer-fired:
• CZ P-07
• Sig P250C (even though it's DAO)
• HK P2000 V2 LEM
*Honorable mention goes to CZ P-01/P-06/PCR, Sig P229 DAK, HK P2000 V3, Beretta PX4 Storm Compact.
Striker-fire:
• Glock 19/23
• Sig P320C
• FNH FNS-9/FNS-40
*Honorable mention to Steyr C9-A1/C40-A1, Walther P99 AS and PPQ, S&W M&P 9C.
Hammer-fired:
• CZ P-07
• Sig P250C (even though it's DAO)
• HK P2000 V2 LEM
*Honorable mention goes to CZ P-01/P-06/PCR, Sig P229 DAK, HK P2000 V3, Beretta PX4 Storm Compact.
There are lots of good 9mm and .40 full-sized pistols out there.
How much experience do you have? If it is not a ton, make sure you can afford to practice a bunch. 9mm helps for cost, unless you reload (in which case, the difference is less).
Ballistics wise, the .40 has some advantages, but they are not terribly much. You are still talking about a roughly 0.6 inch hole, if the hollowpoint expands correctly. Handguns are notoriously bad at killing or incapacitating with one shot, so train to deliver several good hits at a quick pace. 9mm has a slight advantage here, but not a whole lot.
Personally, I would recommend a 9mm, so long as you carry good hollowpoints. Looking at test statistics, Federal HST is the one I would pick, but there are several others the perform well and consistently. The 9mm tends to recoil less (quicker, accurate follow up shots become easier), and it is cheaper (more practice for the money).
That said, I'm not you, and I don't know all your criteria and the weights they receive. You have to make the right choice for you.
How much experience do you have? If it is not a ton, make sure you can afford to practice a bunch. 9mm helps for cost, unless you reload (in which case, the difference is less).
Ballistics wise, the .40 has some advantages, but they are not terribly much. You are still talking about a roughly 0.6 inch hole, if the hollowpoint expands correctly. Handguns are notoriously bad at killing or incapacitating with one shot, so train to deliver several good hits at a quick pace. 9mm has a slight advantage here, but not a whole lot.
Personally, I would recommend a 9mm, so long as you carry good hollowpoints. Looking at test statistics, Federal HST is the one I would pick, but there are several others the perform well and consistently. The 9mm tends to recoil less (quicker, accurate follow up shots become easier), and it is cheaper (more practice for the money).
That said, I'm not you, and I don't know all your criteria and the weights they receive. You have to make the right choice for you.
marine6680
New member
Since CZ was brought up...
The CZ P-07 is about g19 sized. If you want a DA/SA for concealed carry and possible duty use, it is the one I would pick. It's lighter than the all steel and alloy framed CZs.
It would make a good all purpose pistol... Big enough for duty carry, and compact enough to not need much extra thought in concealment use.
Get the new gen 2 version. It has an angular looking hammer rather than a rounded looking hammer. It's just general improvements/refinement over the original, but the original is still good to go.
CZ makes good pistols.
The P-07 can be found for $400-450... While the metal framed CZs will be $500-600.
The P-07 Wil be a little cheaper than your other options you listed, except for the Ruger. While the ruger is a good pistol, it is not my first choice. Though if budget is a concern I always tell people to give them a look. The ruger is good but a bit rough around the edges... I would say spending a little more on a quality pistol is never a bad thing, you do get some improvements in fit and finish. There is a limit to this, as around the $500-600 range you get a very nice pistol, with decreasing returns as you spend more. (in the duty pistol category anyway)
So I think a g19 gen 4 or P-07 are good all around sized. (I like the CZ grip better)
The Sig 320 compact is a good option of similar size to the g19 as well, and it has a very good striker trigger.
The 320 carry model, puts the larger full sized grip on the compact sized slide, it was a requested configuration by some police agencies. You may like it better with large hands. (I am talking about the new version "carry", Sig renamed the old carry model the "compact", and introduced the new carry model... A little confusing if you don't know what to look for)
If you want full sized, I highly recommend the M&P with a trigger job or Apex kit... A VP9, a PPQ, or the Sig 320 full size or new version carry is close to full size.
For DA/SA the CZ P-09 is good, it has a lot of capacity, 19 in the magazine...
If you are willing to spend more the Sig P series are excellent options, in a variety of sizes. (around $800-1300 depending on model and options) I really like mine a lot.
The CZ P-07 is about g19 sized. If you want a DA/SA for concealed carry and possible duty use, it is the one I would pick. It's lighter than the all steel and alloy framed CZs.
It would make a good all purpose pistol... Big enough for duty carry, and compact enough to not need much extra thought in concealment use.
Get the new gen 2 version. It has an angular looking hammer rather than a rounded looking hammer. It's just general improvements/refinement over the original, but the original is still good to go.
CZ makes good pistols.
The P-07 can be found for $400-450... While the metal framed CZs will be $500-600.
The P-07 Wil be a little cheaper than your other options you listed, except for the Ruger. While the ruger is a good pistol, it is not my first choice. Though if budget is a concern I always tell people to give them a look. The ruger is good but a bit rough around the edges... I would say spending a little more on a quality pistol is never a bad thing, you do get some improvements in fit and finish. There is a limit to this, as around the $500-600 range you get a very nice pistol, with decreasing returns as you spend more. (in the duty pistol category anyway)
So I think a g19 gen 4 or P-07 are good all around sized. (I like the CZ grip better)
The Sig 320 compact is a good option of similar size to the g19 as well, and it has a very good striker trigger.
The 320 carry model, puts the larger full sized grip on the compact sized slide, it was a requested configuration by some police agencies. You may like it better with large hands. (I am talking about the new version "carry", Sig renamed the old carry model the "compact", and introduced the new carry model... A little confusing if you don't know what to look for)
If you want full sized, I highly recommend the M&P with a trigger job or Apex kit... A VP9, a PPQ, or the Sig 320 full size or new version carry is close to full size.
For DA/SA the CZ P-09 is good, it has a lot of capacity, 19 in the magazine...
If you are willing to spend more the Sig P series are excellent options, in a variety of sizes. (around $800-1300 depending on model and options) I really like mine a lot.
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Sounds oddly familiar to this current situation.
Lol, "son"? Aww thanks.
Do you really expect to be taken seriously with an attitude such as that, or are you just trolling? Insulting others and immediately assuming your superiority in no way encourages anyone to give you your due, even if you have valuable information to share.
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marine6680
New member
Tunnel... Who are you quoting? I don't see it in the thread.
Either way... Physics...
Most people don't understand it, not well enough anyway with regards to bullet performance.
They don't understand how little energy plays in for (most) handgun rounds.
The added size and weight of the 40 is offset by the added drag it faces when traveling through test medium... That coupled with the understanding of wounding done by professionals has lead to an optimum performance characteristics profile... And 9mm, 40, and 45 all meet that profile with little variation.
Either way... Physics...
Most people don't understand it, not well enough anyway with regards to bullet performance.
They don't understand how little energy plays in for (most) handgun rounds.
The added size and weight of the 40 is offset by the added drag it faces when traveling through test medium... That coupled with the understanding of wounding done by professionals has lead to an optimum performance characteristics profile... And 9mm, 40, and 45 all meet that profile with little variation.
.marine6680
New member
Well that would be why then.
Go to www.impactguns.com handguns and choose your caliber then start with Prices Low to High, that will show you what is on the market in your price range. Youtube is good to check out the gun of your choice.
Remember .40 is a Goverment Round and may at times be hard to get as Unckle Sam has first bid.
Remember .40 is a Goverment Round and may at times be hard to get as Unckle Sam has first bid.
In addition to impactguns.com, I like to use slickguns.com. Great for finding the best deal available.
Since nobody touched on this, I wanted to correct or at least address it. Using ammoseek.com, the cheapest brass 9mm I found is 18 cents, cheapest brass .40 is 22 cents. That may not sound like much, but that's $40 less per 1000 rounds. To me that's not negligible. That being said, if/when I jump up in caliber on my next gun, I plan to skip over .40 S&W and go straight to .45 ACP. If I'm going to jump up, I'd rather not settle for the middle ground.
Since nobody touched on this, I wanted to correct or at least address it. Using ammoseek.com, the cheapest brass 9mm I found is 18 cents, cheapest brass .40 is 22 cents. That may not sound like much, but that's $40 less per 1000 rounds. To me that's not negligible. That being said, if/when I jump up in caliber on my next gun, I plan to skip over .40 S&W and go straight to .45 ACP. If I'm going to jump up, I'd rather not settle for the middle ground.
Theohazard
New member
Like the previous poster pointed out; the price of 9mm ammo is definitely cheaper than the price of .40 S&W or .45 ACP. So, considering there's no measurable difference in the real-world effectiveness between those calibers, I think it makes sense to pick a defensive caliber you can practice with the most. For most people that's 9mm, and that's one of the reasons why it's more popular than the other defensive calibers.
The OP simply needs to shoot more rental guns to get an idea of what is out there and check everyplace that sell guns in his area. Only by shooting hammer style semis and stryker during the same session will you be able to decide. Once you get more experience shooting it will not make a difference until you pick up a Glock and fight the angle. This is his first hangun and he needs to take more time unless there is a rush for live fire for a CCW.
jetinteriorguy
New member
CZ P-09, 19+1 capacity, very good stock trigger, adjustable handgrip, not too heavy, very accurate, great ergonomics, upgrades available, and ultra reliable. Also very affordable.
PatientWolf
New member
OP, based on your original post PLUS updates (good to see you are following and participating in the tread), I would, as others have pointed out, be looking for a hammer fired 9mm in your position.
Of the ones you've mentioned, the CZ and the Sig 2022 are both excellent weapons. If you are leaning toward the CZ but the cost is a little too steep, I'd look at the Tri-Star/Canik clones (also as others have pointed out. If you prefer the CZ and can swing the cost, then stick with the original.
Other option you may want to consider would be a used H&K USPc in 9mm. I've seen them go on the used shelf for reasonable amounts.
Of the ones you've mentioned, the CZ and the Sig 2022 are both excellent weapons. If you are leaning toward the CZ but the cost is a little too steep, I'd look at the Tri-Star/Canik clones (also as others have pointed out. If you prefer the CZ and can swing the cost, then stick with the original.
Other option you may want to consider would be a used H&K USPc in 9mm. I've seen them go on the used shelf for reasonable amounts.
OP, Why not enroll in the NRA Basic Handgun Safety class at your LGR. When you ask the Number 1 question that always gets asked, the instructor will typically respond with "rent or borrow different guns for 6 months and find out for yourself which one you shoot the best, which will be the one you like the best". Best advice I ever got came as a result of taking that course!