I've shot the Sig 2022 and I owned an SR9c and it they're both great platforms for 9mm. Right now I have an M&P in 45 and it's quickly growing to be a favorite of mine. My only experience with Glocks is the 20 in 10mm but it's been in every way acceptable, I find I Like the M&P better but I'd be hard pressed to complain about a Glock.
First Gun Help?
- Thread starter DAFL
- Start date
You need to go to a shop and try a bunch of handguns on for size, then decide how much money you want to spend(including the belt and holster.) first.
Find Glocks are kind of slippery myself. Not a big deal since you can buy a rubber sleeve to fix that.
Oh and 45 minutes is nothing.
Find Glocks are kind of slippery myself. Not a big deal since you can buy a rubber sleeve to fix that.
Oh and 45 minutes is nothing.
You've got a learning curve. You're comfortable with that...good. So I like that you're gravitating to 9mm. Mostly because it's more affordable to shoot a lot.
Sounds like you're excluding Glock for the reason you mentioned...that's fine.
ALL OF THE REMAINING MAKES ON YOUR LIST ARE EXCELLENT AND RELIABLE OUT OF THE BOX, so rest your mind on that issue.
So, what's left? You mentioned (too many) safeties. If that means you don't like manual thumb safeties, then I'm pretty sure that excludes the SR.
Now, from what's left, I think you need to really decide between striker fired vs. DA/SA with a decocker. Only you can decide that and it doesn't sound like you have any hands-on with the DA/SA so that makes it hard. I think you really need to make an effort to borrow or rent one of those in order to really make an informed decision. The FNX and the SP2022 that you've mentioned are fine guns if you decide you like the DA/SA.
But if you decide in favor of a striker fired gun, then the only one that remains on your personal list is the M&P. I own and would trust my life to an M&P. Done, right?
Well maybe not, but I will finish with this about other striker fired guns...
I also own and would trust my life to a VP9 and an FNS9. And, while I don't own them, I would also trust my life to a P320 or a PPQ.
Good luck and enjoy this process. It's fun.
Sounds like you're excluding Glock for the reason you mentioned...that's fine.
ALL OF THE REMAINING MAKES ON YOUR LIST ARE EXCELLENT AND RELIABLE OUT OF THE BOX, so rest your mind on that issue.
So, what's left? You mentioned (too many) safeties. If that means you don't like manual thumb safeties, then I'm pretty sure that excludes the SR.
Now, from what's left, I think you need to really decide between striker fired vs. DA/SA with a decocker. Only you can decide that and it doesn't sound like you have any hands-on with the DA/SA so that makes it hard. I think you really need to make an effort to borrow or rent one of those in order to really make an informed decision. The FNX and the SP2022 that you've mentioned are fine guns if you decide you like the DA/SA.
But if you decide in favor of a striker fired gun, then the only one that remains on your personal list is the M&P. I own and would trust my life to an M&P. Done, right?
Well maybe not, but I will finish with this about other striker fired guns...
I also own and would trust my life to a VP9 and an FNS9. And, while I don't own them, I would also trust my life to a P320 or a PPQ.
Good luck and enjoy this process. It's fun.
jmhyer what a great response! I wish they had a hammer fire I could try but I didn't get the opportunity to. I guess I'll have to go back to the shop and see if I can't dry fire some of them. So it's basically coming down to the M&P vs cz75 (which might be out of my price range, unless i can find a good deal) 2022, or FNX. Can't really make a decision without holding them, but out of those previous three, any one of them stick out for good or bad reasons? the CZ75 has been tried and true, but maybe newer is better? What's y'alls opinions?
I like jmhyer's analysis and think you should go with the M&P 9. Striker is less of a learning curve. When I was deciding between striker and DA/SA I shot a Glock 19 and SP2022 back to back. The consistent trigger pull of the G19 won me over. It felt fine and shot well. Done. I was not comfortable at all with the SP. DA was crazy heavy and the SA was so light it scared me quite frankly. Could I have gotten over "the learning curve"? Probably, but I figured it was better to go with what felt more "natural" to me.
Hello again, dafl -
If you can't find a CZ75, you might want to check out the CZ P07 or P09. My opinion, of course, but the P07's ergonomics felt somewhat similar to the 75 ( had the opportunity to try both at the Lake Mary Gander Mountain during one of their firearm expos ). Shot them both very nicely. The difference is that the P07, being a polymer gun, weighs less. I wound up getting the P07 - and I shoot that better than any other 9 that I've tried. There are others on TFL who will also wholeheartedly endorse the P07. Good luck on your search!
If you can't find a CZ75, you might want to check out the CZ P07 or P09. My opinion, of course, but the P07's ergonomics felt somewhat similar to the 75 ( had the opportunity to try both at the Lake Mary Gander Mountain during one of their firearm expos ). Shot them both very nicely. The difference is that the P07, being a polymer gun, weighs less. I wound up getting the P07 - and I shoot that better than any other 9 that I've tried. There are others on TFL who will also wholeheartedly endorse the P07. Good luck on your search!
Cosmodragoon
New member
You're not alone. I know a lot of people who love their Glocks but some of us just hate the way they point or feel in hand. I think it's the grip angle. I tried and tried but just could never warm up to it.
I never tried the FNX in 9mm but see my earlier praise of the FNX-45. The M&P is decent but never got me excited. Now that you've brought up the CZ 75, that's another gem. There are several different models with all kinds of features but in general: amazing. It's definitely worth exploring what CZ has to offer.
BTW, here's a valuable note on gun purchases: A couple hundred bucks difference is nothing to worry about! Yeah, it seems like a lot up front but don't think about it that way. A quality firearm is likely to outlast you with proper care. Think of all the times you'll take it out to the range in your lifetime. Think of all the times you'll trust it with your life. It'll eventually be pennies a day. Plus, it pales in comparison to what you'll spend on ammo over that same time. So figure out what you really want and get it. If it means saving up and maybe going without a few other amenities in life for a few weeks or even months, so be it.
Cheapshooter
New member
Don't be in a big hurry. Get more experience before you actually buy. First off, 40 S&W over 9MM, and 14 rounds over six, seven, or eight are more important to internet discussions, and gun magazine articles than actual civilian SD.
Comfortable, and concealable in a gun you shoot well is much more important.
There are plenty of good quality 9MM defense ammo offerings that are quite capable for defensive shooting.
Accuracy by volume is not an acceptable practice in civilian CCW.
I am not a 40 S&W hater by any means. I carry a Springfield Arms XD40 Sub Compact in clod weather when an attacker may be wearing heavy cloths. Other times it could be a Kahr Arms CM9 (6+1 9MM), Ruger LCR 5 shot 38 Special revolver, or a Charter Arms Bulldog 44 Special 5 Shot revolver, and always a Ruger LCP 380acp (6+1) in my pocket
Comfortable, and concealable in a gun you shoot well is much more important.
There are plenty of good quality 9MM defense ammo offerings that are quite capable for defensive shooting.
Accuracy by volume is not an acceptable practice in civilian CCW.
I am not a 40 S&W hater by any means. I carry a Springfield Arms XD40 Sub Compact in clod weather when an attacker may be wearing heavy cloths. Other times it could be a Kahr Arms CM9 (6+1 9MM), Ruger LCR 5 shot 38 Special revolver, or a Charter Arms Bulldog 44 Special 5 Shot revolver, and always a Ruger LCP 380acp (6+1) in my pocket
As mentioned about the CZ, there are lots of different models to consider, virtually all are derived from the basic design of the CZ75. The P-07 and P-09 would probably be better carry options due to their decreased weight if that is a concern. You also have the P-01 which is even smaller but similar design. There is also the compact series of CZ75's which are still all metal but are more compact. So, when we say CZ75, really look at CZ pistols in general rather than just the CZ-75B (the grandaddy of them all). In fact, here's all the handguns they offer:
http://cz-usa.com/product-category/handguns/
http://cz-usa.com/product-category/handguns/
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Cosmodragoon
New member
While this is easily a topic in itself, how do you feel the alloy-framed CZs stack up against the polymer for a lightweight option?
DeadEyeJack
Inactive
Personally, I would go for the Glock.
With that said, I'm not one of those people who simply advocate Glocks because they are supposedly perfect. In fact, I've found that Glock pistols are just about anything but. The grips aren't exactly comfortable and both my Berettas and just about all of my revolvers shoot tighter groups than my G22. What Glock does make however, is what I feel to be one of the toughest and safest striker fired autoloading pistols on the market today.
When I first purchased my 22 I was very reluctant to trust it due to its complete lack of any manual safeties. It actually made me nervous enough that I refused to carry it if I was going to be anywhere near my young nieces and nephews. This went on for about a month until one day I was getting ready to clean the pistol and I set it on a shelf, roughly 6 feet high, while I grabbed my cleaning supplies. What I had forgotten was that a few days prior the shelf had collapsed and I had yet to secure it back to the wall. No sooner had I let go of the pistol did the shelf shift and the gun fell to the floor, landing muzzle up, and with enough force to chip a piece of material off the rear sight. As I said before, I didn't have much faith in the weapon at the time and, knowing it was loaded, thought I was done for the second I saw it heading for the ground. Needless to say, the weapon did not accidentally discharge, the internal safeties worked as intended, and I'm sitting here today with a lot more trust and respect for Glock engineering.
As a bit of a side note, I said earlier the grips on the Glock are nowhere near comfortable and I still stand by that however, they do work and are something you can easily get used to. Doesn't even make it onto my list of concerns when considering the level of safety inherent in a Glock pistol as well as it's near inability to malfunction in any way whatsoever.
I'd also like to mention that one of these pistol had been dropped 10,000 feet(I believe) from an airplane, retrieved, and fired so it's not like you ever really have to worry about damaging the thing either.
With that said, I'm not one of those people who simply advocate Glocks because they are supposedly perfect. In fact, I've found that Glock pistols are just about anything but. The grips aren't exactly comfortable and both my Berettas and just about all of my revolvers shoot tighter groups than my G22. What Glock does make however, is what I feel to be one of the toughest and safest striker fired autoloading pistols on the market today.
When I first purchased my 22 I was very reluctant to trust it due to its complete lack of any manual safeties. It actually made me nervous enough that I refused to carry it if I was going to be anywhere near my young nieces and nephews. This went on for about a month until one day I was getting ready to clean the pistol and I set it on a shelf, roughly 6 feet high, while I grabbed my cleaning supplies. What I had forgotten was that a few days prior the shelf had collapsed and I had yet to secure it back to the wall. No sooner had I let go of the pistol did the shelf shift and the gun fell to the floor, landing muzzle up, and with enough force to chip a piece of material off the rear sight. As I said before, I didn't have much faith in the weapon at the time and, knowing it was loaded, thought I was done for the second I saw it heading for the ground. Needless to say, the weapon did not accidentally discharge, the internal safeties worked as intended, and I'm sitting here today with a lot more trust and respect for Glock engineering.
As a bit of a side note, I said earlier the grips on the Glock are nowhere near comfortable and I still stand by that however, they do work and are something you can easily get used to. Doesn't even make it onto my list of concerns when considering the level of safety inherent in a Glock pistol as well as it's near inability to malfunction in any way whatsoever.
I'd also like to mention that one of these pistol had been dropped 10,000 feet(I believe) from an airplane, retrieved, and fired so it's not like you ever really have to worry about damaging the thing either.
DAFL, nothing conceals better than a subcompact. Best deal on the planet right now in a subcompact, in my humble opinion, is the M&P Shield. Superbly engineered and ruggedly built, yet priced below other subcompacts of certainly no better design or build quality. You can surf the Internet and find numerous threads where folks are singing its praises. You can get it in either 9mm or 40 S&W. I recommend the .40 version because the felt recoil is not significantly greater but the terminal ballistics potential clearly is. You give up a whopping one round in the mag. Nothing wrong with getting it in 9 either. But do check it out before making a final decision.
bullet0114
Inactive
Scrap the 40 cal ideal to snappy for first time shooters. I carry a 1911 desert eagle 4 inch 45cal I've shot Kimbers colts para ordinance all 1911 4 and 5 inch and this 1911 desert eagle has been the best one yet. I once read never shoot a large caliber man with a small caliber gun. 9mm guns are good for a pocket gun.Please don't kill me about posting a thread that has probably killed the horse, beat it with a bat, went to its funeral, dug it up and left it on it's families font porch.
Hey everyone, I'm getting my CCW here in FL (no open carry)next weekend. When I go to the shop I want to have a couple guns in my head that I know are good guns so the owner doesn't try to pull a fast one and try to sell me a $250 gun for $400. I've also researched striker vs DA/SA and I don't think I'd mind the learning curve.
I'll answer your questions, "why don't you just go and shoot some?" The closest gun range that rents guns is 45 minutes away and I have a busy schedule so that's going to be after I get my CCW and actually when I go to buy the gun (I hope then it'll just click and the one that feels the best will stick out to me). I started out with a bunch of polymer guns (PPQ, 2022, FNX, XD, etc.) after some nit picking over clip size, weight, (too many)safeties, and other features, I've eliminated some.
What I'm left with, and what I need help with is figuring out the main differences between my remanding choices. I'm looking for a good build quality, good quality control, something that's solid and a great shooter out of the box, something with longevity, and most importantly, most reliable in a stressful situation, something that I can trust will go bang as I'm getting my armed security guard license.
Now, without shooting anything yet, I've pre-concluded that the .40 S&W would be a decent round to start with, it seems you get a good compromise (not too much of a sacrifice on ammo with a little more power, also seems like its more available down here) If you feel the need to tell me that I NEED to start on 9mm then feel free, please redirect yourself to the former sentence of me stating I don't mind a learning curve.
These are all full size, but I'm a big framed (still fat) guy so I don't THINK it will affect me much (6' 285 lbs.)
The finalists are:
M&P 40
I feel like this would be a great choice because of the aftermarket support and not to mention this guns is made by the same people that designed the .40 caliber and this gun was made around the round, not vice versa.
G22
The only reason I'm considering this gun is because almost EVERYONE is suggesting that its a gun to consider, idk if there is anything that really sticks out to me about this gun. Definitely doesn't look the most comfortable.
FNX
Here is the DA/SA! I feel like I would like the DA/SA system more so than the Striker, just because it would be more open, mentally settling because I could see what's going on. Not to mention is comes with three clips.
SR40
Nothing really sticks out to me about this gun, I just had no reason to take it off the list..
So what do you experts think?
I know that 9mm ammo has gotten better so it wouldn't be a bad choice but the 40sw doesn't recoil much more than the 9mm. This is just from my own experience. I had a 9mm Sigma (sold it) and have my Sig P250c 40sw.
I shoot Win PDX1 124+P for 9mm and Hornady FTX 165 for 40sw. They are a pretty good match up but the FTX is only 5 FPS slower than the PDX1+P and the FTX hits harder by 110 fpe. The recoil was slighly more than the PDX1 yet the FTX is bigger and heavier.
Both the 9mm and the 40sw are high pressure rounds.
Since you have large hands I figured you have strong wrists and handle the 40sw pretty well. You've considered a revolver have you considered the P250? As a modular pistol you can tailor the pistol that suits you to a tee. Also it has less moving parts so that makes it pretty darn reliable.
My P250c hadn't failed me after thousands of rounds of various ammo.
I shoot Win PDX1 124+P for 9mm and Hornady FTX 165 for 40sw. They are a pretty good match up but the FTX is only 5 FPS slower than the PDX1+P and the FTX hits harder by 110 fpe. The recoil was slighly more than the PDX1 yet the FTX is bigger and heavier.
Both the 9mm and the 40sw are high pressure rounds.
Since you have large hands I figured you have strong wrists and handle the 40sw pretty well. You've considered a revolver have you considered the P250? As a modular pistol you can tailor the pistol that suits you to a tee. Also it has less moving parts so that makes it pretty darn reliable.
My P250c hadn't failed me after thousands of rounds of various ammo.
I personally do not have enough experience to comment with any certainty. In general, in guns that I've handled it seems that polymer is the best for reducing weight (no surprise), but alloy is a good middle ground between cutting weight and not increasing recoil too much.
That being said, the B6P that I have is not bad on recoil AT ALL. I can only imagine how minimal the recoil is on the B6 (steel framed version). I have thought about selling the B6P now that I have a dedicated carry gun and using what I get to buy a steel framed handgun, still haven't decided yet.
Glocks aren't indestructible, but they are definitely among the more durable handguns out there. When it comes down to it, Glock is really a jack of all trades and a master of none, IMO. They are all around good guns, just not really excelling at one particular thing.
DeadEyeJack
Inactive
"Glock is really a jack of all trades and a master of none, IMO. They are all around good guns, just not really excelling at one particular thing." - BigBL87
This is probably the closest thing to a perfect summation of the Glock pistol line I have ever heard.
And just wanting to clarify one thing. I was in no way attempting to insinuate that Glocks are some mystically indestructible handgun. I mean, almost half my rear sight chipped off after a 6 foot drop to a hardwood floor. They're simply very difficult to render inoperable.
DEJ
This is probably the closest thing to a perfect summation of the Glock pistol line I have ever heard.
And just wanting to clarify one thing. I was in no way attempting to insinuate that Glocks are some mystically indestructible handgun. I mean, almost half my rear sight chipped off after a 6 foot drop to a hardwood floor. They're simply very difficult to render inoperable.
DEJ
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DAFL: well if you have thought about a revolver.....I don't think they are a bad "first hand gun" Swing out the cylinder and load. That's pretty safe. You can practice at a range with a bench and place the spent shells aside for reloading-otherwise you'll have to go running around trying to find the cases tossed about from a semi-auto. On the reloading, with a revolver you can shoot light target loads and then use heavy loads for carry. The semi-auto needs a stable load because the load's force is needed to re-cycle the slide.
If you are going to keep the gun in a night stand you can keep the cylinder slightly ajar to make it plain the cylinder is loaded and snap it shut as you grab the gun. That may be better than wondering if a Semi auto has a live round in the chamber.
With a semi-auto the force of the recoil reloads the gun and you need to keep a stiff wrist so the gun can do its job. "Limp wristing" or just letting the gun flop back will lessen the force of the slide moving back and on rare occasion cause a stove top jam. Most folks figure they know how to shot a semi-auto but if you are in a gun fight and get hit, or panic, you might accidentally limp wrist- it happened to a friend of mine but fortunately for him his first shot did the trick.
We all want to report being attacked and firing in self defense. The only trouble is legal hassles for the rest of your life. A revolver doesn't leave any spent cases lying around. Not the way you should do it but a thought.
With a revolver you can get grips in all sorts of sizes and you may be able to hold and shoot the revolver better than a semi-auto.
So.....what's my favorite? Actually a 1911 and 45 ACP. It just fits my hand well and the trigger is great. But a revolver is a close second, probably a 357 magnum.
If you are going to keep the gun in a night stand you can keep the cylinder slightly ajar to make it plain the cylinder is loaded and snap it shut as you grab the gun. That may be better than wondering if a Semi auto has a live round in the chamber.
With a semi-auto the force of the recoil reloads the gun and you need to keep a stiff wrist so the gun can do its job. "Limp wristing" or just letting the gun flop back will lessen the force of the slide moving back and on rare occasion cause a stove top jam. Most folks figure they know how to shot a semi-auto but if you are in a gun fight and get hit, or panic, you might accidentally limp wrist- it happened to a friend of mine but fortunately for him his first shot did the trick.
We all want to report being attacked and firing in self defense. The only trouble is legal hassles for the rest of your life. A revolver doesn't leave any spent cases lying around. Not the way you should do it but a thought.
With a revolver you can get grips in all sorts of sizes and you may be able to hold and shoot the revolver better than a semi-auto.
So.....what's my favorite? Actually a 1911 and 45 ACP. It just fits my hand well and the trigger is great. But a revolver is a close second, probably a 357 magnum.