First AR....need help

Yes, and the only tools needed would be a hammer and a few pin punches. Something you may already have. They sell tools for holding the receiver in a vice and pin punch starters and all but you can get by easily without any of it. You will need something to tighten the castle nut for the stock but you can come up with something for that. Or you can buy the armorers wrench for $19.00. Also, just FYI, if you buy it all in one order you will be charged and excise tax. You have to have the lower receiver shipped to an FFL dealer anyway so order it separately and save that 11%. You could even go with this Kit:http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/16-hammer-forged-m4a1-rifle-kit.html and have a hammer forged barrel and still be as cheap or cheaper than the S&W.
 
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Could someone please tell me how this internet myth got started that a S&W M&P15 is a better rifle than a Bushmaster?
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It all started the carbine classes, the ones that get the guns too hot to touch, almost. And then do it again the next day, and the next. The Bushmasters showed up to compete with more expensive guns. The Bushmasters failed at a noticeably higher rate. The S&W M&P15s were more acceptable, in terms of failure rates. Not sure why this is considered a myth, as there are instructors willing to state in writing these sorts of results, for instance Pat Rogers.

I think it a mistake to buy and AR without doing searches on Lightfighter, M4carbine, and AR15 forums. And you have to filter out the opinions of those who haven't seen enough shooting to really know what works, which is why I lean to the Lightfighter forum.

The multiple AR-15 books by Patrick Sweeney are worth reading also. And he does a maker-by-maker comparison in them. (Is there something about a first name of Patrick that leads to ARs?)

Bart Noir
 
Could you show some links these test. Everything I seem to find speaks of "The Chart" and Bushmaster meets a whole lot more of the criteria on the chart than S&W does or Olympic, DPMS etc.
 
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For $599, that is a good price. Was that a retail price or used? I thought they were selling in the $1K range. Although, now that I think about it, that may be the piston guns...
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That $599 price was brand new in box with 1 30 round Magpull PMag. I have since picked up a couple more PMags. I just think the S&W M&P 15 Sport is unbeatable for the price I paid, and would have still been a decent deal, even at $100 higher price, which appears to be the direction it is headed. I hope to use it on some coyotes after I recover from surgery.
 
I would rather see a person get a$600.00 on a good entry level AR-15 from Double Star,Bushmaster,Olympic Arms, DPMS, or Smith & Wesson rather than not having them buy one at all. For a lot of people that maybe the maximum ammount that they can spend on weapon system. After that they can invest in ammo and training to become the most effective with the platform they have chosen.
 
Could you show some links these test.
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Slappy, are you asking me? Is so, the answer is 'no' since I was not talking about formal testing. I was talking about use at the tactical training schools, like Gunsite and EAG to just mention a couple.

That is where some of the cheaper guns are found to be wanting. Not everything can be revealed by a chart.

Bart Noir
 
Slappy, are you asking me? Is so, the answer is 'no' since I was not talking about formal testing. I was talking about use at the tactical training schools, like Gunsite and EAG to just mention a couple.
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So what your telling me then is it is just your opinion that S&W is a better built rifle than Bushmaster and you can't provide anything to back it up but here-say.
Well I can provide all the proof you need that Bushmaster uses 4150 Chrome Moly steel and uses chrome lined bores where S&W uses 4140 chrome moly and doesn't chrome line their barrels. S&W also uses an A2 style front post with an A3 upper receiver instead of using an F marked Front sight base. Like I said, until someone can show me proof that the Bushmaster is an inferior rifle to the S&W, it is just internet myth. It is strange to me that Bushmaster is the number one seller of AR 15 style rifles on the civilian market (even outselling Colt) even though they are higher priced than Olympic, S&W and many of the others out there that are supposedly superior rifles.
 
Well I can provide all the proof you need that Bushmaster uses 4150 Chrome Moly steel and uses chrome lined bores where S&W uses 4140 chrome moly and doesn't chrome line their barrels.
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My M&P-15 has a chrome-lined barrel...


S&W also uses an A2 style front post with an A3 upper receiver instead of using an F marked Front sight base.
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My M&P-15 has an "F"-marked FSB...

:confused::confused::confused:

~Dan
 
There is the M&P-15.... then there is the M&p 15 sportline... two different rifles... two different set of specs.
 
All the specs I have read for the M&P 15 sport list chrome lined parts as bolt carrier and gas key. They don't say anything about the bore. As HKFan9 noted, there are two different lines that S&W makes.
I just went through the entire line of S&Ws, and the VTAC, Sport and T are 4140 Chrome Moly without chrome lined bores. The PC is stainless barrel. The X, MOE, TS, PS, PSX, OR, ORC, FT, A, X and standard M&P 15 rifle is chrome lined. Some are 4140 steel and some are 4150. All Bushmaster's are 4150 and chrome lined.
 
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Well I can provide all the proof you need that Bushmaster uses 4150 Chrome Moly steel and uses chrome lined bores where S&W uses 4140 chrome moly and doesn't chrome line their barrels. S&W also uses an A2 style front post with an A3 upper receiver instead of using an F marked Front sight base.
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Smith and Wesson M&P15's (different rifle than the sport) uses a 4140 Chrome lined 1/9 twist barrel. And the front sight base is F marked. (the bushmaster is also 1/9 twist)

If you can live with 4140 steel in you barrel (which wouldn't make any difference in a semi-auto rifle) then the Smith and Wesson should serve you fine. Both the Bushmaster and the S&W have 1/9 twist barrels.

This is not internet myth it is fact.

Internet myth is saying because Bushmaster sells more rifles that must mean they are superior rifles.
 
This is not internet myth it is fact.
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Well since I an pretty sure we were discussing the S&W M&P 15 Sport, since the Standard M&P 15 is not the one going for $650, I think your statement is irrelevant.
Internet myth is saying because Bushmaster sells more rifles that must mean they are superior rifles.
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I never said it did make them superior rifles, I said:
It is strange to me that Bushmaster is the number one seller of AR 15 style rifles on the civilian market (even outselling Colt) even though they are higher priced than Olympic, S&W and many of the others out there that are supposedly superior rifles.
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That is in no way the same thing. I am saying that there are plenty of people out their, apparently a majority, that believe the Bushmaster is a better value for the money.

I also know that Smith and Wesson has only been in the AR market since 2006 where Bushmaster has been making them since 1972.
 
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What you said was:

Could someone please tell me how this internet myth got started that a S&W M&P15 is a better rifle than a Bushmaster?
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So in regards to this statment what I posted is indeed relevant.
 
Have it any way you like it. I don't believe the M&P 15 is a better rifle than a Bushmaster and I certainly don't believe an M&P 15 Sport is even in the same class.
 
Have it any way you like it.[/QUOTE

Sure will....

I'm not going to bother with the Bushmaster aka DPMS aka Remington AR's untill Cerberus starts to display a better busness model. All three of these company's makes AR's from the same parts bin.
If your happy with your bushy then more power to ya. Go shoot the snot out of it.

I wasn't trying to start in internet argument I was just stating the facts about the M&P line.
And besides its not really a fair comparison because the Bushmasters are tending to go for about $900-$1200 and the Sport model goes for the $600 range.
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I'm not going to bother with the Bushmaster aka DPMS aka Remington AR's untill Cerberus starts to display a better busness model. All three of these company's makes AR's from the same parts bin.
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So do you have some legitimate proof that these are all made from the same parts bin? Or is it just an assumption that because these companies are all owned by the same holding company they must use the same parts? They are all still separate companies with separate CEO's and separate machinery. Just because they were bought up by the Freedom Group doesn't mean all of the sudden they started sharing parts, that's ridiculous. You do realize that Smith and Wesson doesn't even own Smith and Wesson any more right? They were bought out by Saf-T-Hammer, who then changed their name to Smith and Wesson Holding Company.
BTW, do you by chance own a S&W M&P15?
 
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