Fired my pistol in SD tonight...

[5whiskey]

To the OP. Please respond with size & weight information but NOT the breed.

The dogs weighed in between 50 and 60 pounds per with the height of a medium sized labrador. I should've included that information, sorry.

Well, considering there was kids involved, it's understandable that you wanted extra precaution, but I have to say that warning shots just waste ammo. What if the dogs didn't back off and continued to engage you and your warning shots caused your gun to jam? Also too, it's the Fourth, is it possible that the dogs were just freaked out a bit from the fireworks and just running around?

While it could happen, it worked in this case. Yelled, dogs hesitated. Fired, dogs fled. Plus I didn't have to explain to a neighbor why I killed his dog, and there will be no court case, etc. The outcome worked, so I'll take my chances with the 1 in a million "gun decides to jam for the 3rd time in it's life after over 1200 rounds during the warning shots".

Did these dogs ever actually leave their owner's property?

They absolutely did leave the owners property. The closest one was in the street when I fired.

I think the fact that there were kids in the OP's party probably has a good bit to do with his reaction. I don't think I'd pull a gun on a dog if I knew it was owned and not diseased or something (a wild dog running at me is going down for sure), but I can't say I wouldn't pull if there were kids at risk, even if the dogs WERE spoken for. Protecting kids comes before everything else.

This is absolute truth, although I'm not going to get mauled myself over not wanting to hurt neighbors fluffy either. Had it not been for the children, and the fact that they were split up and I couldn't protect both of them at once, then I wouldn't have been so quick to draw/fire.

My only concern is the 3 shots. Might deplete too much of my ammo in a pocket gun, but it worked for you.

I agree. 3 warning shots was probably 2 too many. Every time I have trained for carry/SD it has been to put 3 shots center mass and re-eval. Kind of a "pulling it once mean it's worth pulling 3 times". No I didn't have to fire 3 shots, and I think that warrants a little wrist slapping. I still had plenty of feed left, though. Pistol held 14 rounds. I fired three rounds because that was how I've trained to do it. 1 wou'dve worked and saved ammo but my response was semi automatic.

 

[5whiskey]

Creature, you're doing a whole lot of assuming.

The OP has yet to say what the property owner said, if anything, about the incident. Are these dogs socially adjusted to their pack and simply "marking" their territory? Or are the dogs known by the owner to be vicious and unpredictable? Doubtful since the owner feels comfortable enough to allow these dogs to be unleashed on an unfenced yard.

The neighbor was out of town. The neighbor is also new. I've never seen his dogs before. I think it may would be safe to assume that the dogs were not running lose on purpose, they probably found a way to break out of their containment. I never said they "stopped in their tracks" when I yelled either. I said they hesitated... that being and meaning one began to slow advance and the other started headed for another person that was with me... which was about 25' behind me. I am not going to let a kid get scratched, much less mauled, by someones fluffy for fear of responding.

 

[Creature]

They absolutely did leave the owners property. The closest one was in the street when I fired.

Okay, then I must have missed something. How close did that one dog get to the closest person in your group? Why fire the three shots if it appeared that your yelling stopped their advance?

 

[Wildalaska]

You didnt call 911 and report this? Why not?

Your failure to do so raises my left eyebrow

WildthatsabdasignAlaska TM

 

[Ricky B]

2 dogs makes this situation much worse. They were only 1 short of a pack.

I agree entirely that two dogs makes this situation much worse. Having more than one dog brings out the pack mentality of dogs, and dogs, by instinct, will do things in packs that single dogs would not do.

Regardless of the actual definition of "pack" (if there is one), as far as I am concerned, two dogs make a pack since pack behavior can be brought out with just one other dog. Locally, there have been some very well-publicized human deaths resulting from two-dog attacks.

The ditch was a legitimately safe backstop so I guess I don't have a problem firing 3 shots.

It was probably as safe as the OP was going to find, but three shots means three times the chance for a freak accident. What if there had been a stone or a piece of steel covered with a fine layer of dirt in the ditch that was hit by a round? A ricochet does not leave the surface at the same angle as it hits it. Thus, it might hit a stone at 45° and leave at 10°. Hard to calculate angles, collateral damage, etc., while facing down dogs. Just another thought for the after-action review.

 

[Hardtarget]

My neighbor's pit bull charged me this week (Tues) as I walked past the house. When a dog comes hard charging off the porch, hair standing up, stiff legged, teeth bared...I figure I'm going to be bitten.

I'd been cutting grass so i did not have mt pistol on me...only a pocket knife. A loud stop command worked. Then a command to "get back" as I advanced did the trick but he was still growling and barking...from in the yard (he did advance to mid street).

Dogs are hard to deal with. This family is new to the neighborhood. I spoke with the owner half hour later to suggest putting the dog in the fenced back yard. We'll see.

Glad you didn't get chewed up! Dog bites are ugly and HURT!

Mark

 

[Throne Raider]

Legitimate critques on here are great. Monday morning QBing is a bit questionable. 5Whiskey had split second to act, which if you've been a shooting situation then you know that is about all you get.

Love dogs, have a GS and two Rots (one still in training). If they decide they want you, you belong to them. It is instructive to watch a rot whip a small animal side to side, breaking it's back and neck.

If you've never experienced a dog bite, you don't know what you're missing. Years ago, Sergeant said, "Throne (well he actually used my real name) we have a burglar in that house. Sheriff is bringing his dog. You kick the door to let the dog and handler in."

I said, "Sure" (stupidly proud that I had a reputation as excellent door kicker which I learned in the Oakland academy)

Deputy and dog showed up, I kicked door and stood the heck out of the way, facing the outside wall, not moving. Saw dog out of corner of eye enter house then immediately back out and lung at me. Pain like you never felt, my gun arm went numb (or I swear I'd have shot him before the handler got him off) Was a full two weeks before I got the feeling back in my arm enough to draw my pistol and get off front desk light duty!

Moral of story: If I see dogs running at me and think they are going to do me again, or a child, no warning shots. I won't fault 5whiskey for what he did. Just be glad it was 4th of July and all the sounds blended in! (Best time to commit a 187 lol)

 

[Creature]

Just be glad it was 4th of July and all the sounds blended in! (Best time to commit a 187 lol)

By that you are inferring the 4th of July is the best time for committing murder...because of the background firecrackers?

 

[hogdogs]

As the owner of some pretty "high prey drive" bulldogs, I have seen some brutal "yard fights" over many trivial issues. One thing I learned is the pack mentality is ruthless. The head honcho dog and a "lesser" dog can get into a fight and as soon as possible, which ever dog is on the losing end is at risk of death if others jump in the fight.

I do not own human or dog aggressive dogs but the prey drive is too much for me to allow little kids in the "dog yard" without super tight supervision... These dogs home in on a squealing playful toddler as if it were a pig or other target critter and it could get me on TV and right into prison. Responsible dog handling is required with all dogs but too many folks overlook the prey drive, pack attack mentality other other hereditary and genetic instincts. While my dogs are trained, they are from working lines of high drive breeds. You can never train out or water down a genetically created trait.
Brent

 

[B. Lahey]

I love a good scrap with a viscous dog

Hogdogs, I think you missed your calling. You should look into the wild world of Animal Control.

I liked the rodeo events with vicious animals too, it was the best part of the job.

 

[Creature]

Okay...putting all that aside for a moment, why hasnt the OP answered a direct question that has been asked twice already?

OP: if you felt so threatened and you were so in fear of serious bodily injury occurring to yourself or someone in your group that you felt compelled to fire three shots, why didn't you call 911 immediately after the incident?

 

[Wildalaska]

It is instructive to watch a rot whip a small animal side to side, breaking it's back and neck.

really? What kind of small animals you reffering to...the neighbors cat?

Wildandthe911questionAlaska TM

 

[hogdogs]

B..., Naw they would frown on the 9 shot .22wrm revolver I use as the feral cat trap device!
I actually started out my hog trappin then doggin as a freelance state permitted wildlife trapper. Would like to be a "dog cop" but I would bring home too many and save taxpayers a ton of money ridding the world of others...
I have more strict animal judgement lists than the authorities (call me cull happy) and far more stringent expectations of animal owners too....
Brent

 

[5whiskey]

I absolutely called 911 and reported it. Of course I did so after the fireworks were over... I would change that part of the story. What happened of that, you may ask? The sheriff called me on the phone, asked what happened, and said he would leave a note on that neighbors door.

 

[hogdogs]

OP: if you felt so threatened and you were so in fear of serious bodily injury occurring to yourself or someone in your group that you felt compelled to fire three shots, why didn't you call 911 immediately after the incident?

Not speaking for the OP, but for me... when dogs charge me, this isn't the best time to initiate a phone conversation... Once it is over, the emergency is over so it is not legal to dial 911 which is limited to emergency. If it isn't an emergency than I got better things to do besides buggin' the cops to discuss a dog complaint. My list of better things to do includes sittin here pickin' belly button lint. I also prefer to discuss with my neighbor the situation so as not to cost them $250 in fines. I also don't need the strife of a ticked off guy. I rather handle it face to face so he is well aware I ain't just blowin' smoke and am really serious about him controllin' the dogs so I don't have to do it myself!
Brent

 

[Creature]

Interesting. A report of two vicious dogs on the loose ...vicious dogs that just charged and nearly attacked a group that contained children, with shots fired even.....and no immediate / in-person response from the police. Sounds like your sheriff and his deputies are mightily overworked.

 

[B. Lahey]

It was the 4th of July, of course they were overworked.

Bet that wasn't even close to the most dangerous call of the day involving shots fired.

 

[Creature]

Rounding up all the delinquents shooting off illegal fireworks I presume? Give us a break.

 

[B. Lahey]

I guess the monacle-wearing tuxedoed citizens of Virginny never fire guns dangerously on the 4th?

Why don't you give me a break.

I bet there was some serious firearms law-breaking going on in 5whiskeys neighborhood just like evey other neighborhood in the US yesterday.

When Cooter lights off his hunting rifle into the next house over, drunk on radiator fluid, that gets a bigger response from the cops than some dogs that didn't bite anyone.

 

[5whiskey]

Not speaking for the OP, but for me... when dogs charge me, this isn't the best time to initiate a phone conversation... Once it is over, the emergency is over so it is not legal to dial 911 which is limited to emergency. If it isn't an emergency than I got better things to do besides buggin' the cops to discuss a dog complaint. My list of better things to do includes sittin here pickin' belly button lint. I also prefer to discuss with my neighbor the situation so as not to cost them $250 in fines. I also don't need the strife of a ticked off guy. I rather handle it face to face so he is well aware I ain't just blowin' smoke and am really serious about him controllin' the dogs so I don't have to do it myself!

I happen to agree with that Brent, but I did notify LEO (though not through 911) about the incident because I was concerned that the dogs were still running loose. Not becuase I shot my firearm and was about to shoot a dog. You can hate me, flame me, talk smack to me... around here shooting a dog is not an earth shattering event. I've shot several. I've put my own dog down because I thought he was too agressive. I've put 2 of my dogs down because they were injured. I've killed a neighbors dog that got into daddy's chickens when I was 12. The thought of calling the law never even occured to me then, or anyone else for that matter. Daddy took the neighbors dog back to him, along with the 2 chickens he killed, and buried it for him. I guess people were more civil back then... the neighbor helped Daddy bury the dog and they still went fishing together.

Things have changed a bit since I grew up. I understand that. Plus, I didn't like the idea of aggresively dogs running loose in a residential neighborhood. I called the SD using the administrative number. Everything is kosher on that end.





BTW, I don't mind legit questions. Such as the 911, why shoot 3 warning shots. I've addressed those. For everyone on their moral high ground high horse of "OMG he shot his pistol, he's guilty and trigger happy and ready to kill something"... stay out of my thread or I'll lock it myself.