Firearms starting forest fires

"being a golf course superintendent the story was held as highly unlikely and improbable. Being a golfer who also is an active shooter does not always equate across hobby lines, but you are a million times more likely to start a fire shooting incendiary rounds into dry brush, than striking a rock while attempting to move a golf ball forward. If everything on the Internet was true, than I should better start preparing for WWIII and EOTWAWKI"

About 30 years ago I started a small fire in my backyard while cutting dry weeds with a swing sickle.

As a former golfer who whacked more than my fair share of shots into and out of the rough, I raised sparks MANY times while trying to get back onto the fairway or green.

Maybe you haven't experienced it, but I sure as hell have.
 
About two months ago we had no rain for some time and the woods were very dry. Two people atmy club range started several fires shooting tracers. New members means new problems. The local fire marshall said he would report the fires were started by gunfire. A first in 92 years of club history.
 
Mike,on the fire piston,if you have an interest in them,do a search,you may find a better source.Agreed,those are...not something I would consider.

I did not post that to advertise a source,it just seemed a good page to show that such devices are used,and to lend the idea shooting up an old dry snag may not be wise.

I think a lot of them are bamboo and used by folks of very modest means.
 
BC,

Please don't think I was sniping at you for posting the information.

I made a fire piston years ago in Scouts and actually started a fire with it.

They're a huge pain in the butt to use, but if you get them right, they work.

And, not really a topic for discussion in this thread.
 
It's not hard to imagine starting a fire shooting lead bullets. Keep in mind our ancestors used to start fires by striking two rocks together. Break the right rock with a bullet or smash two of them together and you get sparks.

You can shoot lead or jacketed bullets into a stump all day long and it won't catch on fire. But miss once, and let a bullet skip across the country and who knows what may happen?
 
My take FWIW. Normal bullets, I.E. copper jacketed lead bullets cannot cause a spark. Period. I have personally put the same on a grinding wheel and being both non-ferrous metals cannot produce a spark no matter how hard you try. It will get so hot you cannot hold it but still no sparks. It seems highly unlikely that one could cause a spark hitting a rock down range.

After some research on the net a research program at the U. of Cal. in conjunction with the forest fire lab in Riverside, Ca. found it takes approximately 550 degrees F. to ignite dry grass. Now a bullet fired ignites at about 900 degrees C. and leaves the barrel at about 200 degrees F. and 100 yards downrange its at room temp. and certainly not enough to ignite even dry grass.

I have to admit there are unknown things in every circumstance but it seems highly unlikely given the latter use of "conventional bullets" that many fires, if any could happen. Steel core and tracer bullets certainly will of course.

And lastly, very few if any fires are caused with literally millions of hunters in the woods and fields every year using "conventional" bullets. DWR's need the money from hunters licenses and quite possibly personal politics plays a great deal in opinions on all fronts. And lastly, because of news media politics, will we ever hear "the whole story"?
 
I was out at Burro Canyon today. And there was great checking that no one was shooting any steel ammo.
And talk of previous brush fires started out there by steel ammo.
Yesterday I was at Oak Tree, watching some kids at the multi directional skeet range. They were doing quite well.
When someone said oh, there's a fire. And beyond the pistol range flames were shooting up a ridge, 20 to 40 feet in the air.
I believe it started beyond the range entirely, but even then myself and 1/2 the hundreds of people packed up and left.
One road in and one road out. A dead end canyon, and we decided we wanted out.
And only yesterday A Place to Shoot reopened. Due to a huge fire in their neck of the woods they had been closed for a week.
dc
 
About a year ago, my friend bought a Buckmaster .22; he also bought several different types of 22 to see what brand the pistol liked best. Eventually, he settled on one. Fast forward another month and he and I were at his indoor range burning off the rest at paper targets. My friend would give me the 10 word synopsis of each type of ammo that was rejected.
"This one I call the sparkler" he said as we dug into box X. Sure enough, every pull of the trigger resulted in mini-speckling burns to the back of my shooting hand as the Buckmaster cycled.
Page 2:
While I'm plinking away (at his indoor range) with the "sparkler" ammo, a fire started in front of my shooting lane. Apparently, the buildup of unburnt powder in front of the lane was ignited by one of my errant sparks. We put out the fire pretty quickly. HVAC did its job and we were plinking again with different ammo again within 20 mins.

I would say that it's entirely possible that if I were firing "the sparkler" from the prone position amidst dried grass, I could start a fire with simple .22lr ammunition.
 
"Until I see some sort of proof, other than just a claim by a government official, I'll stand by my statement, that they are making stuff up to suit their agenda.
Now it is entirely possible that some shooters set the fire, on purpose or by accident, but I think it is highly unlikely that their shooting guns was a factor."

I'm inclined to disagree. One, and it's a bit off the question, don't shoot a muzzleloader over dry grass. Just ask me how I know. You WILL start a fire.

Now as to whether a copper jacketed lead core bullet will start a fire, I'm going to say yes. I have seen bullets (150gr. Sierra .308 Win. at about 2800 FPS at the muzzle) impact a rock bluff where the portion of the bluff was in deep shade give off a very bright flash at impact. Point of impact was maybe 50 yards from the muzzle of the rifle.
There was a video on the web a while back showing high speed photography of various bullet impacts. My thoughts are when that bullet hits a very solid object, and that energy from the velocity creates heat. Lots of heat and the faster the bullet the higher the heat. It is entirely possible that those hot bullet fragments just might be able to start a fire. Consider the bullets that hit that bluff. Was that very bright flash just a spark or bullet metal being converted to white hot fragments? I believe that a bullet impacting at a high enough velocity could very well spew hot enough fragments to start a fire.
Paul B.
 
Sure, if bullets travel fast enough and hit something hard enough, they superheat and liquify.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg

Certainly, in the daytime or under the extremely bright lights of super high speed videography, they may not produce a visible spark, but it is something that can be seen at night with some impacts.

On top of that, it becomes much more likely that sparks will be produced when shooters shoot at steel targets, hit steel target frames, or hit other steel target materials.
 
Aside from the argument that this or that bullet causes a spark downrange when it hits this or that - Every gun in the world emits a fireball from at least one area (the muzzle) when fired. Revolvers also emit at the cylinder to forcing cone junction. Fire your gun at night to demonstrate.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Sure, but then there is a difference between the fires started immediately in front of the shooters on outdoor ranges and fires started somewhere around or behind the backstops. Not only are their fireballs, but more likely to start fire culprit of slower burning powder residue that is able to remain hot and/smoldering by the time it reaches the ground. This material tends to travel only a short distance, however.
 
Doesn't really matter where the fire is started, does it? Close to the shooter or downrange, a fire is a fire. They don't allow us to shoot fireball shooting instruments in the forests during the extreme dry season. That seems perfectly sensible to me.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Somehow I feel like the odds of a forest fire being started by a lit cigarette butt tossed carelessly out of the window of a car is a much more likely source of ignition for many of these fires.

I have witnessed roadside fires next to Utah highways during the summer.

One tossed out somewhere less accessible, that could not be handled as quickly would be enough to start a forest fire.

I think if we were to establish two square areas of flammable underbrush with firebreaks around each side of them. And we had a smoker or two tossing lit butts into one square and have someone shooting regular ammunition (non-tracer) into another square. I know which one I think would light up first.
 
Somehow I feel like the odds of a forest fire being started by a lit cigarette butt tossed carelessly out of the window of a car is a much more likely source of ignition for many of these fires.
Click to expand...

It is. And it's against the law.

More people are killed by drunk drivers than by guns. That doesn't mean we should make it legal to kill people with guns.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Just for info, I have seen a fmj 9mm bounce off a large piece of steel holding a paper target and start sparks which ignited the paper target.
 
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