Firearms starting forest fires

Those who do not believe a single spark can ignite a fire, and will not adjust their shooting behavior accordingly, should purchase a very large umbrella insurance policy. If you do happen to start a fire, and the origin is traced to you, expect to pay for it. Hopefully, no one will be killed on the fire you start and add that to your burden of financial responsibility and guilt for the remainder of your life.

The land managers and fire investigators have gotten very good at finding not just the origin of a fire, but who started it. DNA, witnesses, and videos from the store at the crossroads have all led to trials and judgements.

Hint : The fire moves away from the origin point, the evidence remains.
 
Utah's 2012 fires started by "shooting" took a massive nose-dive last week. The state revised its statistics, leaving only one fire as a "shooting fire". (The fire started by idiots using explosive targets, and flammable targets in dry grass. ...the idiots have still not been apprehended.)

The rest have been attributed to other factors, or classified as "unknown" / "human caused".

There is one asterisk (*) in the statistics, though. One fire is still suspected of being started by steel jacketed bullets, but because it was on incorporated property (and under the city's domain), it is listed only as "human caused". (It's the city's problem; not the state's.)

In response to more pressure for shooting bans, and the revised statistics, Governor Gary Herbert stated....
We can meet together and pass law after law after law. But you can't pass a law that outlaws stupid.
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;)
 
OPC said:
In AZ, an arrest was made for a wildfire:
Mesa man accused of igniting Sunflower Fire

Suspect was believed to have discharged an "incindiary shotgun shell". By definition, doesn't 'incindiary' mean that a fire or spark will result? Seems very poor judgment, if true. 17,500acres burned.
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According to our local news last night, the guys tried to put it out and when they couldn't they called 911 and the operator told them to leave. A Forest Service worker witnessed the guys leaving which led them to finding the guy responsible. I wonder what kind of trouble he's looking at given that they called 911 and such. It's a shame that this guy made such a stupid mistake, because it seems that he's not a bad guy and he has fully cooperated with the investigators.

I grew up doing stupid things in the desert here in Arizona, too. Luckily I was just smart enough to not start a forest fire. I know the guy has to be racked with guilt over this. When you Start a forest fire here in AZ your public approval rating gets up there with serial killers and politicians and such.

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I can't believe that idiot shot a dragon's breath round in a desert full of dried foliage. That makes me so mad I just see red. I'm an AZ resident and I don't want my land scorched unnaturally. Idiot.
 
" I wonder what kind of trouble he's looking at given that they called 911 and such."

He can call 911 all day long, he still used an incendiary round on a National Forest and started a wildfire. He's going to be cited under federal law and regulations, and be subject to cost recovery for the suppression of the fire.
 
I see fires started every single year on the range. Spread to the woods. 'course it's with tracer in medium machineguns on a military range, but...
 
Frankenmauser, thanks for the update I missed it. It looks like the one fire they are not backing off the claim that shooting started it is the millville fire up here near me. Two guys have been questioned more than once and may still be charged. I'll try to keep up with the news and share it with everybody. I notice as well that they did go ahead and ban the use of steel core and steel jacketed ammo on some public lands. Another huge fire started this afternoon, they think it was construction equipment.
 
kilimanjaro said:
" I wonder what kind of trouble he's looking at given that they called 911 and such."

He can call 911 all day long, he still used an incendiary round on a National Forest and started a wildfire. He's going to be cited under federal law and regulations, and be subject to cost recovery for the suppression of the fire.
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They mentioned a possibility of six-months in prison but I assume it would be up to a judge? I doubt they can hang the entire actual cost of the fire on the guy. Most of us wouldn't be able to cover that in ten lifetimes.

A question about those "dragon's breath" shells: Are those sold at gun shops/shows? I have never heard of them. Is it illegal to discharge those on USFS land at any time? I know I may get flamed for this (no pun int.) but here goes: Is it just me or are exploding targets, tracer rounds, incendiary rounds, ect. Getting a bit out of hand? I, personally, am not one who would spend money on such things, and I surely don't want to say that responsible people who are interested in these things shouldn't be able to use them in a legal and safe manner, but the idiots are out there making a mess with them. Just like the guys hauling TV screens out in the desert to shoot at and leave laying around. They're going to ruin it for all of us who want to shoot on public land. I don't know of any ranges where I can easily have the chance to practice 300-500 yard shots. I hope it never comes down to losing our right to shoot responsibly for free on our public lands. That would be a real crappy situation if you ask me.

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Five, good evening.

Yes, it's illegal to use tracer, incendiary, or other explosive ammo or devices on any National Forest, at any time. No exceptions.

No, it isn't just you, their use is getting out of hand. The shooting public has changed in the last couple of decades.

Lastly, don't doubt for a minute the Gov't won't go after the full cost of fire suppression when the miscreant is caught. They will get a judgement for the amount, and then generally settle with your insurance. No insurance, expect to pay a stiff percentage of your income for years and kiss any and all tax refunds goodbye.

When a logger or road builder starts a fire with his equipment, we make them pay for it, why not the public?

I've seen too many drainages or even entire watersheds burned over, communities burned out, to care one whit about the careless loser who started it.
 
I'm near Albuquerque, and the BLM here is just great. They have designated several areas for shooting, and they maintain the roads in there very well.

Seems like some folks are being smart. Just today I went out onto BLM land to test a new load recipe, and in the past I generally see maybe a half-dozen people shooting, but today there was no one at all anywhere around. I spent about an hour at the sand pit, and never saw anyone else, nor heard anyone else shooting. It's very hot here, and except for a brief rain shower this evening (Thank ypu God) the humidity has been around 8% for teh past couple of weeks. To say it's dry would be an understatement.

I was extremely careful where I was shooting as my property is very near the Las Conchos fire of last year that burned about 150,000 acres of forest, and nearly burned the Los Alamos National Labs.

I think we all need to be extremely careful when shooting. The debate can rage on as to whether or not copper jacketed bullets can start a fire or not, but let's all be very careful.
 
post 26 I mention a primitive cigarette lighter that uses the heat of compression to produce a fire,similar to a diesel engine.I searched around a bit,and actually there is an outfit that sells these lighters
http://www.firepiston.com/

I am not plugging them,it just adds credibility to the idea shooting into dry wood could concievably start a smolder with air compressed ahead of the bullet

If we know about it,we can pay attention.
 
The two fires they are now saying they've confirmed were caused by target shooting are the Millville fire (Logan UT, about 110 acres) and the Dump Fire( Saratoga Springs, about 6000 acres). It appears they have people that have admitted to causing these fires. I'd sure like to get the details but absolutely no one is talking about or admitting to any details which is starting to seem a little fishy. My B.S. detector is starting sound a little bit. If they have confirmed the circumstances why aren't they cautioning us about specific things they know caused these fires?
 
Open shooting ranges

Seem to attract people that like to shoot junk. Take a computor monitor to the public lands, shoot the he!! out of it, and then leave. Or a TV or a stove. Or a bunch of glass.

The need for public shooting ranges in the Front Range area of Northeastern Colorado is recognized. Trails for hiking and mountain biking, areas designated for multiple use such as horses and bikes and hiking are abundant. Shooting on pulic lands draws lots of negative comments from pundits and neighbors that are worried about stray bullets doing the unimaginable. But for some reason, public funding of controlled ranges is just not happening. There was a fairly nice range at the Larimer County Landfill till about 12 years ago. It was inexpesnive and monitored by range masters. The land west of the landfill was developed for big houses and the residents raised cain till the range was closed. Did the county go out and replace that? Nope. Downright discouraging.
 
It very well could have been shooters. Even otherwise responsible shooters can accidentally start fires with their catalytic converters on tall grass.

And I know I've had steel jacketed pistol ammo that sparked just like in Hollywood if it hit rocks.

And then there are also smokers, tracer bullets, explosive/inflammable targets, and general irresponsibility. I know I've seen a lot of shot up propane tanks out there.

We've already mentioned that idiot who started the wildfire with Dragon's Breath.

Honestly, I bet shooters accidentally start wildfires all the time.
 
The Az Sunflower fire was caused by a man at his bachelor party shooting. He did admit to starting it by shooting, but I believe that the cause probably should have been listed as alcohol. There are few of the fires that were proven to be caused by shooting for certain. They blamed over 30 of them at first on shooting with no real proof. The fires on the Az Mexico border last year were set by illegals and there was video proof but they backed off from that statement quickly because it was not popular. It's okay to beat up recreational shooters though.
I do believe that shooting does cause sparks because I've seen it at night shoots many times. Same with archery equipment. Actually you can follow the progress of the arrow downrange by watching the sparks in the dark. So yes be careful, better yet join a shooting club.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...ed-of-starting-sunflower-fire-south-of-payson
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...restrictions/2012/07/03/gJQAeLCPLW_story.html
 
My local Bass Pro indoor pistol range had a fire just a few weeks ago -- debris accumulated on the floor, apparent sparks set it on fire. The attendant told me it happens several times a year.
 
It's possible. But unlikely they can be that specific about the cause. It's easy propaganda fodder.
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It becomes very likely when shooters are using incendiary ammo, tracer ammo, and/or exploding targets.
http://newsminer.com/view/full_stor...rbanks?instance=home_news_window_left_bullets

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...d-for-some-wildfires-states-consider-limits/1

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...d-for-some-wildfires-states-consider-limits/1

Yes, it's illegal to use tracer, incendiary, or other explosive ammo or devices on any National Forest, at any time. No exceptions.

No, it isn't just you, their use is getting out of hand. The shooting public has changed in the last couple of decades.
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I would also be willing to bet that the use of various forms of explosives or explosives-like products is increasing significantly with shows like American Guns and Sons of Guns where nearly every gun they have a customer shoot results in targets exploding.
 
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