Firearms Owners Unification Project (WAS USA TODAY)

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Arizona,

You may find the history of this thread a good thing to read. This thread is just a continuation of it.

Look for the thread "USA Today full page ad".

The first post by Spartacus gives the the original wording of this declaration, and the ensuing support and debate.




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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
 
Gentleman, you give me pause. I will think more on this issue. I still think we are playing into the opposition’s hands but I see the value of your arguments. I realize that I am but a pup in my late twenties and that you have much more experience and wisdom than I. In my heart I agree with your statements I just wish we could make our point in a way that will bring more people into the RKBA tent. I know there will have to be a line drawn in the sand. I just didn’t think the time was now. I don’t think things are bad enough yet. I wish all of you well. I hope you succeed with the project, that I am proven wrong, and I will let you know how I will fall.
Arizona
 
Arizona,

That's MORE than fair! Any movement requires many voices, some calm and rational, some firm, and perhaps even some strident ones. Each of us must find our own niche.

BTW, this IS a movement. It is a peaceful rising up of citizens who realize they are NOT subjects, and have had too much ineffective, insulting, paternalistic government interference in their private lives and personal matters. Some of us are just a bit more fed up than others. In some cases, it's because we have seen how far government has transgressed, errrr, PROgressed in the last fifty or sixty years.

Hang in there, Arizona. We ARE on the same side.

Dennis

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited March 12, 1999).]
 
Arizona:

In your last post you said:

<<I know there will have to be a line drawn in the sand. I just didn't think the time was now. I don't think things are bad enough yet.>>

Please don't get me wrong with this, but it is way past due. I assume like the rest of us here you believe that the Second Amendment protects the right of the individual to keep and bear arms? What if I was to say that our court system says otherwise. That our court system has ruled that if our government wants to disarm the people that there is no constitutional barrier to do so. Would you believe that statement?

Here is part of the opinion from the 1996 9th circuit court of appeals case of Hickman vs. Block. Hickman was a law abiding citizen in Los Angeles county who tried to get a canceled carry permit for many years. After he had death threats from a disgruntled employee and his application was still turned down, he sued based upon the county of Los Angeles infringing upon his Second Amendment rights. The opinion is written by judge Cynthia Holcomb Hall.

"The question presented at the threshold of Hickman's appeal is whether the Second Amendment confers upon individual citizens standing to enforce the right to keep and bear arms. We follow our sister circuits in holding that the Second Amendment is a right held by the states, and does not protect the possession of a weapon by a private citizen."

I also would like to point out that the Supreme Court refused to hear the case, thus letting this ruling stand. In effect the judiciary has wiped the Second Amendment out of our Constitution. This to me was the line drawn in the sand. It is what really woke me up. For this is one of the worse abuses and usurpation of power that I have seen by our Government. This infuriated me to know end. This is such a dishonest out and out lie being perpetrated on the American people that it is hard for me to believe. Yet through the spin and propaganda machine, we are being told that this is the truth and that we are the one's lying about the meaning of the 2nd.

Their plan to total disarmament has become clear to me in the past few years. First they had to change the perception of arms. Using lies and propaganda they are changing the perception of the people that firearms are evil and that no one should have one. Second, they had to get past the Second Amendment. They knew that they could not disarm the people as long as the 2nd was there. Thus through the courts they have effectively removed this barrier. Third they have to get the people used to the idea of gun controls. This they are accomplishing by the banning of ‘Assault Weapons', ‘Saturday Night Specials', ‘Junk Guns', etc. over a long period of time. But this time line is now accelerating. I estimate that within 10 years we will now see a total ban on the private ownership of all arms.

So if we don't draw the line now and UNITE to fight back in the halls of congress in another few years we may not have the means to fight back. I'm not advocating armed rebellion, what I am advocating is replacing those representatives and judges who are perverting the constitution.
I'm now advocating civil disobedience and jury lawlessness. The one remaining legal weapon that we have left to fight this is jury lawlessness. This is the right when serving on a jury to vote not guilty based not on the facts in the case, but based upon the law in the case. The trial judge will tell you otherwise, that you must vote only on the facts and he will tell you the law. It is not only the right but the duty of every citizen to study the constitution and when serving on a jury to vote not guilty when the only charges are those deemed to be unconstitutional. Gun control laws are laws such as these. They can not enforce the laws if they can not get any convictions. If only 20% of the 70+ million gun owners would pledge to vote not guilty when serving on a jury, the odds are that there would be at least one of them on every jury. It only takes one vote of not guilty to free the defendant.

Hope this helps.

Richard
 
Arizona,

In my mind, the purpose of the ad is not to win the hearts and minds of people who are neutral or hostile to the 2nd Amendment. Rather its goal is to foster unity among the firearms owner of America as well as encouraging the politically inactive firearms owner to become active. There are 70 to 80 million law abiding firearms owners in America. All adults. Probably all of them are not even registered to vote. We have a tool which can shake America peacefully without violating a single law. We need to shape it.

After this is begun, then we can consider initiatives to win the hearts and minds of the neutral. After that, we can begin the attempt to persuade the hostile. But the preeminent thing is to awaken the potential strength we already have. That is what this initiative addresses. This is not a one shot deal. It does not exist in a vacuum.
 
Gentleman (and women too)...

I have been out of town for a few days and have had to neglect TFL. I am sorry.

I am glad that the information being passed around in the messages between interested parties is directly in line with my thoughts. Indeed, Arizona, you make many valid points. But, as spartacus pointed out, we have ccome a long way from the initial tone, reading the other thread may give you a different persepective.

Meanwhile this week, A radio station in MO told me (and te LEAA) that they would not let us record a rebuttle to their anti-CCW editorial, nor would they even intereview any representing the pro-gun viewpoint. This is the type of thing that we are speaking out against... the complete refusal of the other side to allow us to have a voice. One day soon, our statement will speak on behalf of millions of gun owners.


BTW- I am closing this thread. First, it is getting very long and no-one is likely to read it from start to finish. I want to keep this project freash and not let it stagnate. WE will have some interesting news early next week on the preparation of the financial side. Meanwhile, if anyone wants to start another thread, feel free.

Anyone can Email me for more info.

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-Essayons
 
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