Firearms and children under the same roof.

Thus the show and tell.

They need to know it is OK to touch them under supervision and they need to understand the golden rule of all property, if it ain't yours, don't touch it unless you ask and are given permission.

By making a kid shoot until they don't like it, is a dis-service since it sours them on firearms all together. However allowing them to fire it under supervision only and in a safe way, there is a healthy respect for the hobby and you don't breed an anti.

I think we can go overboard in any direction if we are not careful and this goes for anything.

I have a 22 and an SKS that I have had a very long time. The 22 has been mine since I was 5 years old. These were just wrapped up in a closet in my younger days. I bought a cheap locking safe, well more like a strong box type stack-able storage unit for 8 rifles. This worked until I outgrew it. I kept my shotgun and two rifles in it for a long time.

I think the key was the show and tell and the linch pin was the ability to lock them up.

Mel
 
I think the key is to not make them some forbidden thing to make kids want to play with them. I grew up on a farm, and started off when I was probably 6 with a BB gun, with the only rule to not be to shoot at people, animals, houses, etc. just targets. When I was about 10, I got a little 22 Amadeo Rossi that I still have and occasionally ink with today (25 years later).

I knew where the home defense pistols were, the shotguns, safe combination, etc, but because I was exposed to guns pretty much as far as I can remember (and the fact that 30 years ago parents were actually allowed to and willing to punish their kids), I never had the urge to just go play with them.
 
I don't want to put my daughter off shooting altogether, I just want to put her off dangerous behaviour.
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I agree with your thought here. Education does not need to be painful to be effective. If anything, the painful part is detrimental.

Kids are a lot smarter than many seem to give them credit. If they appear to be not to bright or trustworthy, you need only look to their programming for the source of the problem. ;)

Firearms are no different than fire, boiling water, power tools, playing in traffic, anything that might need "positive" reinforcement to get the point across. You can accomplish a lot more with positive training, than you can with negative, even though the negative may appear to work. Fear without understanding, doesnt usually work to well in the long run.
 
AK103K wrote;
Firearms are no different than fire, boiling water, power tools, playing in traffic, anything that might need "positive" reinforcement to get the point across. You can accomplish a lot more with positive training, than you can with negative, even though the negative may appear to work. Fear without understanding, doesnt usually work to well in the long run.
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I tend to agree with this philosophy, teach them at a young age and, they will carry the lessons for life.
 
There is no magic answer. Some kids will ignore the continuous lesson, and some will naturally be careful. You never know. Anybody thinking that continuous education, forcing them to shoot when they don't want to (the gun version of forcing a kid you caught smoking to smoke a pack of cigarettes to "teach him") is a foolproof way to make sure they don't touch a gun when they shouldn't is dreaming. Just because you were that way doesn't mean your kid is.

The answer is simple. Lock the damn things up! A life lost is a life lost. The odds of you needing a gun in a split second are far more unlikely than a kid finding the gun. And there are quick access safes that get the gun out in seconds. Get a solid door and keep it locked. Plenty of time to get the gun

makes me nervous to let my kid go on a play date. Too many idiots who rely on the "my kid knows not to touch it" mantra. God help the idiot who allows a gun to fall into a child's hands and my kid is hurt. A lawsuit is the least of his worries.
 
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Locking things up is a good idea, for the most part, but youre not being realistic, if you think its a perfect solution.

Having your kids understanding why they need to be careful, and including/involving them in the lesson, instead of just demanding they follow your rules, pays dividends. Ive personally seen it on many occasions, and when they didnt know I was watching. This is basically the firearms equivalent of drown proofing them.

As I said earlier, kids are smarter than we give them credit. "You" are the parent, do your job, and teach them what they need to know to survive. Give them the knowledge and skills as early as possible, and you wont regret it.
 
Never said don't teach. Just said locking them up is the only real way to make sure they don't get a hold of them. My kids will be taught and taught well. But in my house, they ( or their friends) will never get a hold of my guns. Period. And anybody who relies on lectures and lessons is putting lives in danger. Look at this thread. If you polled everyone on it, how many posters would admit their gun is not locked up? More than a few. A friend of mine (cop) has a gun in his glove compartment at all times. His 12 year old knows it's there. He "knows not to touch it" too
 
Anyone who relies on perfection in locking their guns up, is not being realistic, and if they havent gun proofed their kids, is also asking for disaster. Sooner or later, you will screw up, and not lock the safe, or they will figure it out and get it open. If you doubt this, you havent been at it very long.

Education and training is ultimately safer than the lock, and even more so, when you and/or the lock, are not present.
 
Ok. So I guess you never disobeyed your parents when they told you not to drink before 21, try drugs, have sex before marriage, speed in your car, etc? Never came in after curfew, lied about where you were, cheated on a test, or any of the other things that kids do on a regular basis?

I don't see why people can't get my point. Teaching is important, but even the best child is ruled by impulse and subject to peer pressure. There's no way around it. If a person does not lock up a weapon because their child has been instructed not to touch it, they are endangering lives. And there is no excuse for not locking them up. Not for one second. I take my gun off and it goes it the safe. Not one second does it stay off my person and not in the safe. Not one.
 
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we do get the point, no one is saying to 'rely' on the lessons and lectures, its been stated early in this thread that the lessons and lectures are the 2nd layer of the equation, the first is to lock them up. I agree these two are integral and in that order.

See post #7
We used a two-layered approach to safety:
Keep the guns locked up out of sight.
De-fang the kids' curiousity about firearms.

These layers are built on an important universal truth: All human beings make mistakes.
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BTW: Pax, when I first stumbled on your website after joining this forum it wasn't long until I bookmarked it. Lots of excellent information and most importantly free and I've shared links to others. Huge thank you.
 
No, I see your point, and I did most of those things you pointed out, and a few others.

What I never did though, was screw up with a firearm, due to mishandling or mistreating it. We were also brought up with guns at a very young age (as were most of my friends), and were out and about on our own, with our own .22's at around 10. I know it was a different era back then, but interestingly enough, we never seemed to have any of the troubles that seem to be rampant today. I never saw a gun safe in person (other than the armory at my dads work), until I was looking to buy one back in the mid 80's. Guns were everywhere, pretty much in everyones houses, and very often, loaded.


I think youre not getting my point about perfection and locks. In the 30 some odd years Ive owned gun safes, Ive found what I thought, no swore, to be a locked safe, open, and on more than just a few occasions. They are only as perfect as we are, and you know how that goes. If it hasnt happened to you yet, trust me, it will.

And if you think your kids wont figure out the combo.......
 
Homerboy wrote;
Ok. So I guess you never disobeyed your parents when they told you not to drink before 21, try drugs, have sex before marriage, speed in your car, etc? Never came in after curfew, lied about where you were, cheated on a test, or any of the other things that kids do on a regular basis?
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Yup, sure did, so did all 5 of my kids. But, I also grew up in a house that had racks, and cabinets filled with firearms, none were locked. My Father taught my siblings, and me, about firearms and, firearm safety at a very young age. We had access to an arsenal and, used them quite frequently.

My kids grew up the same way and, on a couple of occasions, the ability to access a firearm literally saved their lives.

There are many instances in our "latch key kids" society when kids are home alone, many are still alive today because they had access to firearms and, knew how to use them. I could not imagine coming home to find my child raped, beaten, killed, or missing because they had a safe full of firearms within reach, that only Dad could access.
 
Remember that your ultimate goal as a parent is to work yourself out of a job.

Eventually your children will come across an unlocked gun. When that happens, the only thing between them and a tragedy is the education you have given them. Will it be enough?

pax

PS Lock up your guns. Teach your kids. Suspenders and a belt.
 
I have an 11 year old daughter. She has had a .22lr rifle for a couple of years, but only has a mild interest in shooting it every now and then. Firearms are really a non-issue in our family. Not much different than having a belt sander or cake mixer.
 
I learned to handle a firearm safely at a very young age, 4yo. my boys learned the same way, there was never a safe or a locked door between us and the guns, there was never an incident of any kind because we knew what a real gun was and what it could do. My parents took the time to supervise me and I did the same .
 
Glad it worked out for those who had access to guns as children. But leaving a minor access to firearms is negligent at least, if not outright reckless. Thinking that your instruction is going to override nature and peer pressure is not reality

Let me ask those here this: if a parent of a playmate of your child asked you if your guns were secured, would you tell him? Would you lie?

And IF my child comes across a loaded firearm, it is because some adult didn't lock it up. And while your child might not touch it, will that save him if one of his less instructed friends puts a bullet in your child?

And the situation of "what if my child needs a gun" is MUCH less likely than a negligent discharge. How many of us here have needed a gun in the home? Less than 1 percent? And I'm not talking about hearing a bump and getting the gun only to discover is was the wind or cat. I'm the talking real life danger. Cause every story you can find me about a kid using a gun to defend himself, I can find you 100 where somebody got hurt or killed

There's another thread on here about range etiquette. Look at some of these "trained owners" and their habits. And if you ask them, they'll say they know what they're doing too
 
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So what training and education have you instilled in your children, to help them deal with things you cant control? Reality is, sooner or later, they will be faced with it.

Im not against having a safe and locking things up, of course its a good idea, but it is only one part of a layered system. Thinking that because you locked them up, your done, is a dangerous presumption. If they arent gun proofed, and done so early on, then you havent done your job, no matter the number of locks in between.

As far as other peoples guns go, that just is what it is, and you really have little control over it. You do your best to find things out, but beyond that, thats where your kids training kicks in, and pays off. If youve done your part, at least they have safe handling instilled, and are better prepared to deal with things on a level of knowing and understanding.


It may not be the perfect world you envision, but its a lot better, and safer, than just locking them up and assuming your kids will never get to, or be exposed to them.
 
My children have been taught to not touch and to call an adult if they see a gun. I quiz them all the time and they always pass. But that doesn't mean I fully trust them. Fact is, I don't. They've also been taught not to hit each other, but they do. And to hold my hand while walkkng in a parking lot, but they sometimes try to break away when they see something that excites them. When they get older, I will take them shooting and show them what a gun can do.

Again, watch that 20/20 special. Nearly every kid failed the call an adult test. One cop lost his son because he left a gun out in a dresser that his son knew "not to touch". And that's not even counting the death of a friend. One father is looking at prison time because a friend of his son's found his hidden gun in the garage. Wife left him too.

They did a scenario where they timed a homeowner (a cop in this case) who got his gun out of a gunvault and ready to go in less than 6 seconds.

I am all for teaching. But you can't rely on that instruction to work 100% of the time. A locked gun cannot ever be involved in an accidental shooting. My solid locked door will buy me that time. And as for them ever getting the combo, never gonna happen. I'm too careful.
 
I am all for teaching. But you can't rely on that instruction to work 100% of the time. A locked gun cannot ever be involved in an accidental shooting. My solid locked door will buy me that time. And as for them ever getting the combo, never gonna happen. I'm too careful.
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Never say never. ;)

Nothing works 100%, 100% of the time.

My youngest son was cracking combo padlocks at around 10, just for fun and because he was told he couldnt do it. He was a teenager when I got my first "four finger" gun box, that took him less than two days to break.

I dont care how careful you "think" you are, youre not infallible, and you will screw up at some point. Thats a fact, and thats just you. You arent the only part of this puzzle.
 
So by your own logic, despite teaching your children how to act around guns, nothing is 100% and they might disregard. And while you lock your guns up, some other posters here have said they do not. And the odds are much higher of a tragedy with a gun not locked up
 
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