Firearms and children under the same roof.

P

Pond James Pond

New member
Being a relatively new dad (17mths experience ;)) and a relatively new shooter (26mths? :o) I am interested to know how people manage bringing up kids with firearms around.

I'm not talking about safety as I keep my guns locked up and unloaded with ammo kept separate, also locked.

I mean dealing with the curiosity that might accompany firearms. How to deal with that? What about balancing that curiosity/interest with a healthy respect for the hazard they can represent? How do I perhaps get my child into shooting in the years ahead, without it being forced on her.

I didn't grow up in a firearm society and didn't have guns at home other than some shotguns for clay shooting that I rarely saw but did shoot now and again.
I did, however, grow up in a home where questions were answered honestly no matter the subject and I plan to do the same, that includes any questions about guns. At the same time I don't want them to seem like part of the furniture to be taken in one's stride, somewhat for granted.

I also need to be sensitive to my wife's views who doesn't really like guns. She is very supportive of my having this hobby/interest, but wants nothing to do with it and wants it all out of sight with the baby around.

How do/did you manage this aspect of gun ownership?

(I know this OP is not very clear, but it is as clear as the thoughts/concerns ricocheting around my skull, so bear with me!)
 
I mean dealing with the curiosity that might accompany firearms. How to deal with that? What about balancing that curiosity/interest with a healthy respect for the hazard they can represent? How do I perhaps get my child into shooting in the years ahead, without it being forced on her.
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IMO don't force anything, I'm ok if my children do not take an interest in shooting however I feel its important not to hide being a firearm owner or avoid discussing everything about it. If you own firearms it means that "we" own firearms in the kids eyes so it becomes a natural acceptance that's not taboo when you lead by good example of being responsible. By doing so my 11yr old daughter asked me if I could take her shooting for the first time this summer. Based on the very straight forward discussions about guns prior I was impressed with how attentive she was to handling properly a firearm for the first time.
 
I raised three very level headed girls.

In our house when the girls were old enough to understand, maybe 3 and up, I got the firearms out of the safe and put them on the bed. I also carried an off duty handgun. I made sure all weapons were unloaded with a double check by my wife.

Once sure all was safe, the girls were brought in. They were allowed to handle all of the weapons. This stopped the curiosity they might have. We explained this was the only time they were allowed to touch them unless at the range and I was there.

Anytime I bought a new one, before it went to the safe the girls were allowed to handle it.

When my anti sister in law and my on the fence brother come to visit, the nice and nephew are told that if they see a firearm, real of not, they are not to touch it and get an adult.

Which way is best? I dunno, but I can tell you I never had an issue with my girls in my house or any other. There are a couple weapons that are out all the time and even now my girls in their 20s will not touch my firearms without asking me.

Hope this helps.

Mel
 
Grew up around guns, was shown difference between the TOY, BB/PELLEt, and REAL gun from a young age. The Eddie Eagle GunSafe Program is a great program with excellent materials for little ones from a very young age.

IMHO the biggest thing to overcome is the WOW and WONDERMENT factor away from it.

But really look at the The Eddie Eagle programs. http://eddieeagle.nra.org/information-for-parents.aspx
 
I raise 4 and there was always firearms around. Around age 3 I would let them touch with me there, I would also have them watch me practice. Twice a year I would have a watermelon that they would hit with their fist and roll around, then I would put it at the target line make the kids hold both hands on a rope I would then turn and fire 1 round and hit the watermelon. After I holstered my pistol I would send them to the melon to put it back together. When they could not put it back together I would explain that when a gun is shot you can not change what has happened. My kids and most all of their friends learned the same lessons and all learned safe handling that was right for their ages.
 
Congrats on the knee-biter!

I started shooting airguns/bows with my oldest when he was 4 and able to understand what a "perfect listener means".
If you aren't being a PERFECT listener, you cant be trusted on a range. Its become a great bartering tool to get him to respond better to verbal commands in general.

Member of the staff here by the name of Pax is great brain to pick for the nitty gritty on kids and guns/wives and guns; if she doesnt catch wind of this thread maybe shoot her a PM.
 
I mean dealing with the curiosity that might accompany firearms. How to deal with that? What about balancing that curiosity/interest with a healthy respect for the hazard they can represent? How do I perhaps get my child into shooting in the years ahead, without it being forced on her.
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*Flourishes Credentials* -- my husband and I have five children, all boys. Our oldest boy was five years old when our youngest boy was born. That was 19 years ago; our sons are now ages 19, 20, 21, 22, and 24. We have owned guns for most of their lives. /credentials

We used a two-layered approach to safety:

  1. Keep the guns locked up out of sight.
  2. De-fang the kids' curiousity about firearms.

These layers are built on an important universal truth: All human beings make mistakes.

If we relied only on Layer 1, keeping the guns locked up but failing to educate the kids about what guns are and what they can do, we would be trusting that none of the adults in our children's lives would ever make a mistake such as leaving the safe door open for a moment while answering the phone, or forget to take the gun out of the range bag immediately after going to the range. That would also expect that every friend or neighbor who ever has your child in their homes also stores their guns just as absolutely inaccessibly as you do, which may not be a reasonable assumption especially for those who don't live with kids full time.

If we relied only on Layer 2, and expected that it would be enough just to settle the kids' curiousity, we'd be trusting them never to make a mistake of the kind that childish high spirits could get them into. We'd expect that they'd never let a friend pressure them into doing something stupid and that they'd never have a flaw in the wiring of their not yet fully developed impulse control. Given what's at stake, that's probably not a safe bet.

So lock up the guns, AND educate your kids about what guns are and what they can do. Two layers, suspenders and a belt.

As for how to do all that, there's a lot of material on my website at www.corneredcat.com. I'd suggest starting with this article: Disarming Kids' Curiosity, and then work through the rest of the related articles in that chapter. The big deal is to start young, make it fun, and never compromise on the safety rules -- not for yourself and not for them.

We started our kids with the safety rules as soon as they were old enough to parrot some simple rules back to us, using a modified set of Eddie Eagle Rules. Eddie Eagle tells kids, "If you see a gun --

  • STOP!
  • Don't touch.
  • Leave the area.
  • Tell an adult.

We found that kids could recite those rules beginning when they were very, very small. They would ask questions: "What's a gun?" That's a prompt for show and tell -- first with a picture, then later with a very, very, very unloaded firearm within the confines of a safe dry fire ritual. We talked about who is an adult and made sure our kids all knew that teenage babysitters ARE adults. We talked to the babysitters and made sure they knew what to do if a child in their charge ever reported that they'd seen a gun. We encouraged lots of questions from the little ones and encouraged them to ask to see the firearms any time they wondered about them.

Of course, none of this works without a lively commitment to ... well, to discipline, for the kids and yourself. Not in the sense of punishment, but in the sense of teaching them how, showing them how, to do things carefully and methodically. Doesn't do much good to tell kids what the safety rules are, if they ever catch you being lazy or sloppy or just in a hurry and cutting corners with them.

When they were old enough to go to the range -- there's an article on the website about that, too -- we did have a lot of fun with them. Lots of reactive targets, lots of cheering them on for successes, lots of challenges that were just within their reach. We rarely took the whole mob to the range at once. Not an issue for you, I suppose, but for others reading this: the ideal ratio for kids to adults at the range is 1:1. And the adult should not plan to shoot that day, either.

Hope this helped.

pax
 
20/20 did a great piece last year on guns and kids. Surprisingly NOT anti-gun. Just common sense. They video taped a room full of 6 year olds who had been thouroughly instructed by teachers, a policeman, watching the Eddie Eagle video, and repeating the "tell an adult" mantra when asked what they would do if they found a gun. Then the adults left the room with several unloaded guns hidden throughout the room. The tape rolled as the kids found the guns and pointed them at each other and played with them. Nobody called an adult. Most lied when asked if they touched the gun

Kids do NOT have the ability to resist the natural urge to experiment. Thinking they do is a fantasy. Teens are a little better, but the urge to impress your friends is stronger than listening to mommy who isn't even there at the time. Sure, there are exceptions, but I'm not betting a life on it

My guns are locked up and unloaded. I will take my kids shooting if they want to starting at about 11. But I am sure in my house that no child will get a hold of a gun. I wish I felt the same way about some of their friends houses.
 
Oh, being told the rules is just step one. The part that makes it work is taking both the mystery and mystic power out of handling the gun. You do that by letting kids handle them under careful, carefully-taught supervision so they find it both an everyday occurrence and a bit boring.

I'd never have felt confident about them following the rules if we had not handled guns with them starting from when they were quite small. Waiting until puberty is waiting about 7 years too long.

As for whether it works, here's one thing that happened when the kids were small.

Cornered Cat website said:
So that is what we have done. We’ve kept our guns locked up, but we have also taken steps to satisfy our children’s curiosity about firearms.

Is the plan working? I think it is. One day I made a bad mistake that could have been very serious. A friend of ours had just come from the range, and offered to take the kids and me to town on a quick errand. I thanked him and told my three youngest boys — then ages 6, 7, and 8 — to go hop into the car while I grabbed my purse. Meanwhile our friend stepped into the house to use the restroom, so the boys were by themselves when they discovered our friend’s open range bag in the back seat.

Six-year-old Timothy was the first to spot the gun, and said, “Stop! Don’t get in! You guys, there’s a gun back here.”

Jonathan, our seven-year-old skeptic, disagreed. “I don’t think that’s a real gun. Mom wouldn’t have sent us out here if it was real.”

Eight-year-old David countered, “Don’t you remember? If we don’t know if it’s real or not, we gotta act like it’s real.”

All three of them came running back into the house, with Timothy in the lead. “Mom! We didn’t touch it!”
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Keep the guns locked up and teach your kids what to do when they find one.

pax
 
Very well said pax!

I was only alluding to the second layer, but believe whole heatedly in both layers.

I felt the op was clear on using layer 1 so only mentioned how important taking the curiosity out of firearms.

I do believe if the schools taught firearm safety there might just be fewer curiosity related shootings. Even one is too many.

I can attest from first hand experience that my girls have had a good healthy upbringing regarding safe handling of firearms. I look forward to training my grandson.

My niece and nephew on the other hand I think will be curious and afraid of firearms well into their adult life as well as being ignorant of the facts. So sad!
 
Teaching is important, of course. But I still say an 8 year old trying to impress his friend is gonna ignore the lesson

Locked up is the only way to fly. Sadly, too many people don't do it. More people are shot accidentally every year than criminals do. Totally avoidable, but nobody thinks it will happen to them.
 
Another thing that happened was a few years later. Our oldest boy was around 10 years old at the time, and his best friend a year older than that. The boys were hanging out at the friend's house while the other boy's parents were working elsewhere on the property, quite a ways from the house.

The other kid asked my son if he'd like to see his dad's new shotgun. He was sure his dad wouldn't mind, he said, but better not tell him anyway, okay?

My son added things up and said, with very carefully studied nonchalance, "Naw, I don't think so." Yawn, bored, not interested, not challenging the other kid. Then he perked up and said happily, "Oh, I know what we can do! Let's go see if we can find that old model rocket in your garage. I want to check what engine size it takes." So that's what they did instead of getting into the dad's guns.

This was a story my son told me some time later, the way teenagers do tell you things they think you don't know about their childhoods. :D

And ... the strategy was one I taught him and that we'd role played well before the subject ever came up: If another kid wants to get a gun out, don't threaten to tattle, don't make a fuss, don't make a big deal out of it. Just politely turn it down as if it's not all that interesting to you and change the subject.

He had a plan for how to leave without drama if the kid had insisted on getting the gun out, too. That, too, was something we'd role played.

And we also had a strategy for what to do if an adult brought a gun out but wasn't handling it safely. That one was a lot trickier to teach.

pax
 
an 8 year old trying to impress his friend is gonna ignore the lesson
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This is a concern for me, but for some reason I feel boys may be more inclined to behave this way. I shouldn't let that lull me into a false sense of security, having a daughter.

I think the best antidote to this type of behaviour is instilling in the child a clear sense of self-worth so that they don't feel the need to resort to impressing others to feel validated.

Now how the heck I'm going to achieve that is a completely different story!!

Pax: I'll take my 3000th post to say....

....I wish you lived closer!!:p

I think your approaches are gold-dust and if you lived nearby I would be picking your brains over coffee and cake (my shout, of course) the whole afternoon.

These are all things I really need to think about. Although guns are far less common here, they are still around.
 
I taught my kids how to handle a rifle safely from a very young age,
and they could shoot from a young age too, didn't let them use anything
other than a bolt action single shot 22 until they were in high school.
If they understand never to point a rifle at anything they don't want to
shoot and to treat all guns as loaded they are well on their way to safe
handling of firearms.
School army cadets were a great organisation for training high
school kids in safe handling of firearms and how to shoot plus other skills.
Haven't heard much of the school cadets for a long time, have a
feeling the anties in their wisdom probably went a long way towards stuffing
it up.
 
Im a firm believer in teaching kids from birth, and continually reinforcing it daily.

You teach your kids from day one about everything else that can hurt them, why would you wait with guns?

We were always of the mentality that you educate them "before" they got educated by someone or something else. Firearms were just a part of that. They always saw them around or being used, and we constantly encouraged them to handle them (with supervision), and continually stressed what they were and safety with them. They could look at anything in the safe, anytime they wanted, all they had to do was ask. In doing so, the "magic" was removed, and the important things, constantly ingrained.

Ive always thought it was a MAJOR mistake, to wait until kids are older (post pre school) to teach them about guns. They need to start learning as early as possible, so there are no other "bad" influences. These days, if youre letting them watch TV, you had best already be teaching them about the "proper" use of firearms, among other things. TV is a great training tool for whats wrong, with pretty much everything too for that matter, but especially firearms. Lots of "discussion" possibilities.

Our experience with starting teaching at birth has been, we never had any troubles with our kids and firearms growing up. They were actually safer and better prepared than many of the adults they encountered, and in some cases, better shots as well.

As far as other peoples kids, they come in or around the house, they get the same treatment. If their parents dont like it, then they can be parents, and take care of their own kids. Around here, in my house, they are mine, and they get the same drill, programming/safety wise.
 
I was blessed with two girls, and well girls are not the gun nuts boys are in a manner. So for me it was-We talked about what they are,how they work,how to handle and when to handle. My guns are always locked in a safe, I would take them to the indoor range with me and coach them on shooting rules and manners. I instilled in them the respect for what they can do and that what they have done can not be undone. There is no pretend it did not happen. Neither one is crazy for guns, but I know if the need ever arise to use one, they are very capable of doing it right.
 
Im a firm believer in teaching kids from birth, and continually reinforcing it daily.
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Well, I don't plan to wait till she is going to school, but I see no point in trying to teach her at this age: i've not hidden them from her, and I let her stand next to me , but I don't let her touch the guns yet.

That is as far as I go. As her understanding of the spoken word grows, then I can talk to her more directly about what I'm doing. Right now she can just learn by how I handle the guns indoors in the house.

Other people's kids, like their parents, will never even know I have them.
That there's family business!!
 
A two year old is extremely dangerous !!!
Amazing curiosity, physical abilities far beyond the parents' belief.
I watched one starting to load a rifle !! he had never been permitted to touch a gun .His learning was just by watching others do it !!
Many here start to shoot at 7-8 as I did. Constant repeating of the lessons , serious shooting , fun shooting [plinking] and safety !
 
When my youngest son was 10 our home was robbed while we were all away at a high school football game. My one and only gun was stolen, among other things, and the next morning I bought a beautiful Model 19 S&W revolver (357mag, 4-inch barrel, nickel plated) which I still own today. My 10 year old was fascinated by this gun and asked to see it several times. In those days I kept the gun loaded and in my bedside stand since I didn't own a safe of any kind and I thought there was a good chance the burglars would return.

To deal with the potentially dangerous fascination my son had with this gun I took him to the range and had him fire full strength 357 magnum rounds. After just a few rounds he said he had enough. I told him, no, he had to keep shooting until we finished the box of 50 rounds. Well before we finished he complained that his hands hurt, that they were tired and that he wished we could just go home. When we got home we sat down and cleaned the gun, meaning I instructed him and he did the cleaning. He complained and complained that he had had his fill of guns that day and begged me to let him go play.

From that day forward he never showed the slightest unhealthy interest in that gun or any other firearm that I later came to own. As a young man he became an LEO for several years and is now an investigator with a state agency. BTW, he does not care for firearms and does not even keep a single gun in his home, not even for family and home defense.
 
To deal with the potentially dangerous fascination my son had with this gun I took him to the range and had him fire full strength 357 magnum rounds. After just a few rounds he said he had enough. I told him, no, he had to keep shooting until we finished the box of 50 rounds. Well before we finished he complained that his hands hurt, that they were tired and that he wished we could just go home.
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Whilst that would no doubt cure any curiosity abut guns, would the painful experience not risk tarring shooting as a whole?

I don't want to put my daughter off shooting altogether, I just want to put her off dangerous behaviour.
 
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