Fourdiamonds
New member
Musta been about a million steers pass thru here----PPPPPPPuuuuuuuuuuu the smell! ha!
------------------
From my cold dead hands.
------------------
From my cold dead hands.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Finally Plucked Up the Courage to Ask - 1911 Why oh Why ?
- Thread starter Mike H
- Start date
Will Fennell
New member
Why the 1911?
I shoot it better than any other handgun[pistol or revolver] that I have worked with. In Autopistols alone, this includes Beretta's, Glock's, S&W's, Sig's, Walther's[I've yet to try the '99, but I will], Kahr's, B highpower, CZ-75[close second place], and HK USP[another close second]. No other handgun system works as well for me. I can put rounds on target, faster and with more precision with a 1911 than anything else I've tried. PERIOD.
So for me, the question is not 'Why 1911', but 'WHY ANYTHING ELSE?!'
------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell/CAMILLUS CUTLERY
I shoot it better than any other handgun[pistol or revolver] that I have worked with. In Autopistols alone, this includes Beretta's, Glock's, S&W's, Sig's, Walther's[I've yet to try the '99, but I will], Kahr's, B highpower, CZ-75[close second place], and HK USP[another close second]. No other handgun system works as well for me. I can put rounds on target, faster and with more precision with a 1911 than anything else I've tried. PERIOD.
So for me, the question is not 'Why 1911', but 'WHY ANYTHING ELSE?!'
------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell/CAMILLUS CUTLERY
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
I have yet to see a better design.
What Chindo said.
I, too, have seen remarkable accuracy out of bone stock Colts and GI 1911A1s. When I see someone (except an expert pistoleer who can take advantage of the niceties) with an "accurized 45 Auto" it reminds of the proverb, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A fool and his money are soon parted.[/quote]
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
I, too, have seen remarkable accuracy out of bone stock Colts and GI 1911A1s. When I see someone (except an expert pistoleer who can take advantage of the niceties) with an "accurized 45 Auto" it reminds of the proverb, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A fool and his money are soon parted.[/quote]
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Well, I picked up my first gun a couple weeks ago and shot it for the first time this weekend. Springfield 1911-A1. I've been shooting the Colt M-1991-A1 for years, but couldn't track one down.
Anyway, why did I go with the 1911? Because I can hit my target, bone stock. The guy at the range was trying to convince me to get a Kimber because it was more accurate, etc. With a bone stock base Springfield, I walked out to the range, pushed a target out to 50' and fired a 5" group. Not bad for my first time firing it with an unadjusted sight.
That same day, I rented a Glock .45 and an S&W .45. I was dead on with the Glock, but it was out of my price range. I couldn't even hit the target with the S&W. Go figure.
Anyway, why did I go with the 1911? Because I can hit my target, bone stock. The guy at the range was trying to convince me to get a Kimber because it was more accurate, etc. With a bone stock base Springfield, I walked out to the range, pushed a target out to 50' and fired a 5" group. Not bad for my first time firing it with an unadjusted sight.
That same day, I rented a Glock .45 and an S&W .45. I was dead on with the Glock, but it was out of my price range. I couldn't even hit the target with the S&W. Go figure.
Judge Blackhawk
New member
Why the 1911????
Well lets see. I own the glocks, sigs, S&W, Rugers, and two 1911 by Kimber. Both are stainless, one compact and one classic.
The Sigs get the looks because they cost alot and most people dont have them. At the range my Sig(226,228 and 220) are all handled and ooggled at.
My Glock ( just sold it thank God and Mr. Browing) got nothing, it was the ugliest gun I have ever owned. Life is to short to own ugly guns. If shot ok but nothing to right home about.
My rugers ( to many to list) are well built, fun to shot and easy to find at most any good gun store. Rugers are the fords of firearms. They are nice dependable but you wont get many ooohs and aaaahhhhs. Until you shot the bullseye out that is.....
The S&W, well lets just say that they used to be good guns, but now they have lost almost as much as the Colts ( God Rest their souls).
The 1911 is everything to every shooter. It can be a workhorse everyday gun for the beat cop. It can be match gun for the professional shooter.
It can be the fun gun in a shooters safe.
The 1911 can be made into what ever the shooters heart, pocket book and mind can dream up.
Why the 1911, because God meant guns to be made of metal with rosewood grips.
Because the 1911 served our sons with honor and distinction. Because the 1911 still moves the heart of every shooter, whether you like the 1911 or not. When you see one, you know that the design has worked and worked well. You know you are seeing a war hero. A veteran and a friend.
Show me someone who does not get tears in their eyes when our countries colors are displayed and I will show you someone who does not deserve to stand under our flags shadow. It is the same way with the 1911. Pull one out at a gun range especially one like my uncle had from WWII, watch the old guys get teary eyed and the young guys get stary eyed.
That is why the 1911.
God Bless the country and the men and women who defended her for us.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years.
Judge Blackhawk
Well lets see. I own the glocks, sigs, S&W, Rugers, and two 1911 by Kimber. Both are stainless, one compact and one classic.
The Sigs get the looks because they cost alot and most people dont have them. At the range my Sig(226,228 and 220) are all handled and ooggled at.
My Glock ( just sold it thank God and Mr. Browing) got nothing, it was the ugliest gun I have ever owned. Life is to short to own ugly guns. If shot ok but nothing to right home about.
My rugers ( to many to list) are well built, fun to shot and easy to find at most any good gun store. Rugers are the fords of firearms. They are nice dependable but you wont get many ooohs and aaaahhhhs. Until you shot the bullseye out that is.....
The S&W, well lets just say that they used to be good guns, but now they have lost almost as much as the Colts ( God Rest their souls).
The 1911 is everything to every shooter. It can be a workhorse everyday gun for the beat cop. It can be match gun for the professional shooter.
It can be the fun gun in a shooters safe.
The 1911 can be made into what ever the shooters heart, pocket book and mind can dream up.
Why the 1911, because God meant guns to be made of metal with rosewood grips.
Because the 1911 served our sons with honor and distinction. Because the 1911 still moves the heart of every shooter, whether you like the 1911 or not. When you see one, you know that the design has worked and worked well. You know you are seeing a war hero. A veteran and a friend.
Show me someone who does not get tears in their eyes when our countries colors are displayed and I will show you someone who does not deserve to stand under our flags shadow. It is the same way with the 1911. Pull one out at a gun range especially one like my uncle had from WWII, watch the old guys get teary eyed and the young guys get stary eyed.
That is why the 1911.
God Bless the country and the men and women who defended her for us.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years.
Judge Blackhawk
Judge, You has spoke and I'm a gonna shet ma mouth! Sign me, Starryeyed!
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
[This message has been edited by BigG (edited December 21, 1999).]
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
[This message has been edited by BigG (edited December 21, 1999).]
Keith Rogan
New member
Forget the Moro's, forget John Browning (God forgive me for saying that!), forget the history and glory, forget all of that.
The damned thing shoots!
I've done this a buttload of times now and it never fails. I'm at the range and an acquaintance or even a stranger begins to extoll the virtues of their plastic double action gun with all the latest whoozits that the gun writers are drooling about and I challenge them to a 1911 vs their "whatever" piece.
The twist is that THEY have to shoot both groups. Its not about my skill vs theirs, its about their gun and my gun in their own hands.
Every single time I've done this, EVERY time, they have shot a better group with the 1911 than their own piece. In many cases they have never even shot a single action pistol before and they still shoot better with it!
When you get right down to basics, its a machine and a man getting together as a unit to throw a missile down range. The place where the man and the machine meet is at the trigger and to a lesser extent the hand generally. If the hand fits the gun and the trigger is crisp and consistent, the missile will hit the target with greater regularity.
Mushy DA or SA/DA triggers don't give you the fine control that a crisp 1911 pistol does and will never shoot quite as well.
------------------
Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
The damned thing shoots!
I've done this a buttload of times now and it never fails. I'm at the range and an acquaintance or even a stranger begins to extoll the virtues of their plastic double action gun with all the latest whoozits that the gun writers are drooling about and I challenge them to a 1911 vs their "whatever" piece.
The twist is that THEY have to shoot both groups. Its not about my skill vs theirs, its about their gun and my gun in their own hands.
Every single time I've done this, EVERY time, they have shot a better group with the 1911 than their own piece. In many cases they have never even shot a single action pistol before and they still shoot better with it!
When you get right down to basics, its a machine and a man getting together as a unit to throw a missile down range. The place where the man and the machine meet is at the trigger and to a lesser extent the hand generally. If the hand fits the gun and the trigger is crisp and consistent, the missile will hit the target with greater regularity.
Mushy DA or SA/DA triggers don't give you the fine control that a crisp 1911 pistol does and will never shoot quite as well.
------------------
Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
CastleBravo
New member
"The damned thing shoots!"
...the rest of the sentence being "When they ***WORK***," which seems to vary widely and have little to do with whether or not you gave Kimber $1000+ for your Pro Pimp Special Elite Series XXVII or just got lucky with an old 70 Series Government Model.
Bottom line is, if you're smart (and have a good bit of luck), you'll have one of the sweetest handguns around. If not, well... in life you take your chances, especially if it isn't a GLOCK.
----------
CastleBravo
...the rest of the sentence being "When they ***WORK***," which seems to vary widely and have little to do with whether or not you gave Kimber $1000+ for your Pro Pimp Special Elite Series XXVII or just got lucky with an old 70 Series Government Model.
Bottom line is, if you're smart (and have a good bit of luck), you'll have one of the sweetest handguns around. If not, well... in life you take your chances, especially if it isn't a GLOCK.
----------
CastleBravo
In addition to what everyone else has said, I find an out of the box 1911, regardless of who made it, fits me more comfortably than any other pistol design period. And yes I've tried them all. Sig, Glock, H&K, Beretta....etc. Not one of them handles or feels better and shoot better in my hands.
More important, some minor smithing makes it handle and feel even BETTER for me.
As to the accuracy issue. I've found the .45 ACP round to be inherently accurate. Unless you buy a particularly sloppy 1911, any 1911 should do no worse in the accuracy department on the average than any other design.
Big and heavy? The only time I can think of that being a disadvantage is having to carry it all day long with a bad holster.
I have to give it to ol' JMB. This gun just plain works.
More important, some minor smithing makes it handle and feel even BETTER for me.
As to the accuracy issue. I've found the .45 ACP round to be inherently accurate. Unless you buy a particularly sloppy 1911, any 1911 should do no worse in the accuracy department on the average than any other design.
Big and heavy? The only time I can think of that being a disadvantage is having to carry it all day long with a bad holster.
I have to give it to ol' JMB. This gun just plain works.
It seams that people have forgotten to mention a few things about the 1911.
a. Weight, it was made heavy for one main reason to last and not to bend or crack easily durring a bad situation. Also the weight had one other benefit there is less recoil translated to the arm because it takes a lot of force to start moving one. For example I am 25 and I can shoot through 150-200 rnds through my Ballester Rigaud 1911 Argentinian clone one handed and not be the lease bit sore, but I tried that with a Glock, I think it was a .45 cal ACP and my arms were screaming after 50 rnds two handed.
b. Well Mike H I hate to tell you this but my gun is a clone of the 1911 produced in 1935-38 by HAFDASA (Argentinia) for their Military and LEO and some went to England. I ahve also heard of a version made in the former USSR because it was so well liked. The only reason that I have heard that the BR was produced was because of production shortages at Colt and in 1940 Colt licenced HAFDASA to produce the 1911. The main differences between the BR and the Colt is that there is no grip safety and the trigger pivots instead of slides but still hits the hammer release as if it was a slide pull.
c. As for gunsmithed and no good straight out of the box. The only thing that is not original on my gun are the following, new barrel, common nothing special, glow paint on the sights, for contrast, and new magazines and with my in-accurate ability I can get a 3" group after 50 rnds at 30 yards, and the owner at the range was able to do a 1.5" group at 30 yards with the gun. So basically people get stuff done mainly because many gsmiths know the gun, many many parts are available, and people have extra money to spend after buying a 1911, especially surplus.
I guess some of the posters on this message board have small hands, because the second I put my hand on a 1911 it fits like a glove, where a lot of other guns, especially ones with shallower and thicker grip, glock, baretta, etc... Also to me most DA guns place the trigger too far forward fo me to grab for the first shot, and do not carry safely in SA mode.
All guns are a matter of personal preference.
Have fun and shoot safe,
Richard Cizik Jr.
a. Weight, it was made heavy for one main reason to last and not to bend or crack easily durring a bad situation. Also the weight had one other benefit there is less recoil translated to the arm because it takes a lot of force to start moving one. For example I am 25 and I can shoot through 150-200 rnds through my Ballester Rigaud 1911 Argentinian clone one handed and not be the lease bit sore, but I tried that with a Glock, I think it was a .45 cal ACP and my arms were screaming after 50 rnds two handed.
b. Well Mike H I hate to tell you this but my gun is a clone of the 1911 produced in 1935-38 by HAFDASA (Argentinia) for their Military and LEO and some went to England. I ahve also heard of a version made in the former USSR because it was so well liked. The only reason that I have heard that the BR was produced was because of production shortages at Colt and in 1940 Colt licenced HAFDASA to produce the 1911. The main differences between the BR and the Colt is that there is no grip safety and the trigger pivots instead of slides but still hits the hammer release as if it was a slide pull.
c. As for gunsmithed and no good straight out of the box. The only thing that is not original on my gun are the following, new barrel, common nothing special, glow paint on the sights, for contrast, and new magazines and with my in-accurate ability I can get a 3" group after 50 rnds at 30 yards, and the owner at the range was able to do a 1.5" group at 30 yards with the gun. So basically people get stuff done mainly because many gsmiths know the gun, many many parts are available, and people have extra money to spend after buying a 1911, especially surplus.
I guess some of the posters on this message board have small hands, because the second I put my hand on a 1911 it fits like a glove, where a lot of other guns, especially ones with shallower and thicker grip, glock, baretta, etc... Also to me most DA guns place the trigger too far forward fo me to grab for the first shot, and do not carry safely in SA mode.
All guns are a matter of personal preference.
Have fun and shoot safe,
Richard Cizik Jr.
Peter M. Eick
New member
I bought my first 1911 because I wondered the same thing, why? Compared to a CZ75 or a MD96 the 1911 is a pain to disassemble and clean, has lots of parts and given a whole industry of parts and gunsmiths it seems to have problems in the basic design. And what is this thing about the 45ACP?
So I bought a Les Baer Premier II in 45 ACP to find out, (I figured if it was a spoof, then I could get my money out of the Baer better then a Colt).
100 rnds at the range and all I could say to myself is "Oh, I understand, it is easy to shoot, negligable recoil in 230 grn hardball, fits my hand like a glove, and more accurate then I will ever be"
Get a Baer and experience the religous change yourself.
pete
So I bought a Les Baer Premier II in 45 ACP to find out, (I figured if it was a spoof, then I could get my money out of the Baer better then a Colt).
100 rnds at the range and all I could say to myself is "Oh, I understand, it is easy to shoot, negligable recoil in 230 grn hardball, fits my hand like a glove, and more accurate then I will ever be"
Get a Baer and experience the religous change yourself.
pete