Finally Plucked Up the Courage to Ask - 1911 Why oh Why ?

M

Mike H

New member
Gentlemen,

At the risk of being on the receiving end of a flamethrower, I just have to ask this question. What on earth is so special about the 1911, is it just some form of misplaced historical icon worshiping or is the thing worth a flying hoot.

Every one I've ever seen has been gunsmithed to near death, noone talks about it being an out of the box shooter unless it's from Wilson or Baer or some other Custom gunsmith. Single action only, I mean, that's crazy isn't it, it's big, it's heavy, it's a possible victim of Glockitis (unsupported chamber problems). If we weren't American, would we have any interest in this weapon as a modern day firearm, I know that loads and loads of black clad ninja SWAT bunnies run around scaring crack dealers with them, but whilst other elite police/anti-terrorist around the world opt for H&K/Browning/Glock or Walther, I've never heard of any force outside the US who use 1911's.

So come on, defend your piece (takes a deep breath and braces for impact).

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Mike H
 
You're either a fan or you're not. They fit my hand terribly, I get hammer bite and no extended safety I've ever tried feels comfortable, and they balance poorly for me. I do like the crisp triggers, however. Since for me the 1911 has more negatives than positives I avoid them.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
I hated them in the military, and couldn't imagine buying one now. I mean, they get the job done, and were developed for OSS against natives on the island of Mindanora as I recall.

There just isn't any finesse about them, IMHO!! Kinda like a club!

(Now, I will admit I have seen some smaller versions of the weapon, but then, those are .45 ACP, not 1911's.

Gimme an H&K for combat.

Roon
 
My Randalls and Renegades are the only dedicated left handed pistols I own. I can do a real Chow Yun Fat style shoot with a portsider in my left hand and a normal 1911 in my right.

More realistically, part of it is nostalgia. Part of it is fad. Part of it is a reverence for all things designed by Browning.

One neat thing about the 1911 is, like retired Olympic Shooter and gunsmith Bob Chow once observed, unlike the [then] newly adopted Beretta 9mm, the common soldier can work on his own 1911 with very few special tools. There is an entire cottage industry catering to the wants, desires, fanciful whimsy of anyone with a passing interest in the 1911. The effectiveness, usefulness, praticality of each item is debatable.

Some of us just like the .45 ACP and the 1911 is the .45 ACP pistol to own. I'd hazard to guess that the pupils of Col. Cooper would agree on that point.

Thanks for asking.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
"…were developed for OSS against natives on the island of Mindanora as I recall." The following is in no way intended as a flame. The OSS was developed during WWII, log after the 1911 had entered service with the US Armed Forces. The Army had trouble with the Moro tribesmen in the during the Philippine Insurrection. It seems the Moro chewed on a hallucinogenic root and swaddled themselves in some sort of chest armor made from tree bark and leather, if memory serves correct. The S&W revolvers used by the army (in caliber 38 Police & Military-someone help me out here) didn’t do a darn thing to stop them. Realizing a heavier bullet was needed specs were laid out for a 45.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
Actually I like the M1911 best in its purest form: right out of the box. I have owned 3 Springfields and 1 Colt (all MILSPEC) out of the box with no gunsmithing and they all ran great. Why do I like them better than anything else:

(1) They throw a big fat bullet that packs a wallop.
(2) They can be stripped to bare essentials without tools.
(3) They have a great trigger.
(4) They are all steel.
(5) They last forever.
(6) They look cool.
(7) They served faithfully in a buttload of wars.
(7) Your grandaddy and daddy can relate to you when you talk 1911s...
 
Tecolote

You and I are in complete agreement. By OSS, I meant one-stop-shot, not Office of Special Services (or whatever the CIA's predecessor was).

Isn't Tecolote Azteca??

Dogger:

I gotta agree with you on these points, especially talking them over with the ol' folks! ;)

Cheers,
Roon

[This message has been edited by Joseph (edited December 17, 1999).]
 
The 1911 I had to qualify with in the army was undoubtably from the very first production run Colt made.
It was so worn out you could hardly read the serial# anymore. Forget about accuracy. I had to just about aim at the target the guy next to me was shooting at in order to hit mine.
I didn't like it and I carried that prejudice for over 25 years.
Then I wandered into my local gun store with a pocket full of money and no definite desire to fill (I wish that happened more often). The guy there talked me into a Kimber Classic Stainless Target LE. I haven't been the same since. I love that gun!
The center of any target I shoot at with that gun simply disappears. I truly enjoy shooting it. The only problem I have ever had with it is getting it away from my son.
A short while later, I bought a Para Ordnance 14/45 Limited. Another great gun! Had a little trouble explaining why I "needed" another 1911 to my wife, but otherwise no problems and very accurate.
I'll probably get another 1911 in the next 6 months, only ... which one?

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400 days left!
 
If you shoot a 1911, chances are you will be hooked too. The grip angle of the pistol is excellent, the grip and thumb safeties permit cocked and locked carry, the flat profile ("slabsides") lends itself to discreet carry for a large pistol (with the right holster), and, yes, the cottage industry that supports this pistol lets you keep it any way you like, from plain to bizarre.

As for the caliber, .45 ACP is traditional and appreciated, but .38 Super must not be forgotten. I use both. After all, Phillip Marlowe carried a 1911 in .38 Super.

Once you learn to use it, you will have a higher first shot hit ratio than with almost any other pistol.

[This message has been edited by Trevor (edited December 17, 1999).]
 
The Army had trouble with the Moro tribesmen during the Philippine Insurrection Campaign in 1899-1902.The Gun that was used by the U.S.Army at that time were 38 Long Colt And thay went back to the old Colt Peacemaker in 45 Colt,not the 45 acp 1911.The selection process, which started in 1906 to replace the U.S. Armys 38long Colt was ended in 1911 and the 1911 Colt Model in 45acp was picked.
 
The Army had trouble with the Moro tribesmen during the Philippine Insurrection Campaign in 1899-1902.The Gun that was used by the U.S.Army at that time were 38 Long Colt And thay went back to the old Colt Peacemaker in 45 Colt,not the 45 acp 1911.The selection process, which started in 1906 to replace the U.S. Armys 38long Colt was ended in 1911 and the 1911 Colt Model in 45acp was picked.
 
If you had your druthers would you drive a 1999 Chevy or a '68 Chevelle SS 396? And if you choose the SS would you want it stock or ported and polished with pop tops, headers, a .411 rear end and a rockcrusher 4 speed? How about a set of Crager mags and some N50's on the rear?

THAT'S why I like the 1911! It's the most customizable (real word?) pistol in history. It can be an old clunker or the most souped up hot-rod in the gun world. It conceals better than any other full sized pistol. It draws faster, shoots faster and feels better than any other. I've tried danged near everything out there - Hi-Powers and tuned Glocks come close but NOTHING beats a 1911.

Mikey
 
RikWriter said it best:

I like the 1911 for one simple reason---I shoot better with one than I do with anything else.

very hard to improve on the best...
 
Mike H,

With respect, here comes a small flame from an impartial, equal opportunity automatic pistol fan (proud owner and operator of a Sig P220, a Sig 226, a Glock 23C, a Colt 1908 .380 Hammerless Browning design, and a full-sized Kimber stainless 1911A1). Let's review the criticisms cited in your posting individually:

a) Gun-Smithed near to death - My Kimber has provided exceptional out-of-the-box accuracy (the best of all my pistols and much, much better than the Glock 23C or the Colt 1908 .380), durability, reliability, precision manufacturing quality . . . and it has never been near a 'smith. True, it needed a break-in period of a few hundred rounds; until broken in, it failed-to-fire about one percent of the time. Since then, however, it has been as dependable as the Sigs, which is really saying something, and more dependable than the Glock.

b) Single action only - I get better accuracy in a SA design, although I recognize that implies deficiencies in my technique. Carried correctly, with the right training and constant forethought, it is as inherently safe as any other design, as documented by generations who have securely carried the 1911A1. In fact, modern SA/DAs (such as Sig's P series) and SA-only (such as Glocks) designs are intended to compensate for the too common lack of in-depth training, safety awareness, and painstaking maintenance our military and police forces often suffer from (as a Naval officer for 20 years, I have considerable first-hand familiarity with these problems).

c) It is big and heavy - Yes, and for that very reason it is unusually reliable and durable, able to function in the most adverse environments, and virtually indestructible. Proof of this claim exists throughout this century and in every conceivable combat arena.

d) Possible victim of Glockitis - Rubbish; Glock Kbooms result from over-pressure, frequently in reloads. The .45 ACP round is an intrinsically low-pressure load, particularly in comparison with more modern rounds such as the .357 Sig, the 10mm, and the .40 S&W. When one combines the strength, mass and durability of the steel 1911A1 and the inherently low chamber pressure of the .45 ACP round, Glockitis/Kbooms are most unlikely.

e) US only - I'm not knowledgeable enough regarding foreign military and police forces to contradict this point, however, I will add two additional key facts:
* The amalgamation of the full-sized 1911A1 and the .45 ACP round is a proven "man stopper", probably the world's most demonstrated defensive handgun/ammunition combination.
* When accuracy and durability really count - whether in competitions or in life-threatening situations - the venerable 1911A1 remains the global standard of comparison. Check Camp Perry, any top-tier defensive competition, or what experienced professionals - who can afford anything - elect to carry for self-defense.

I'm not suggesting the .45 ACP/1911A1 is the only good alternative - I love my Sigs, for example - but neither is it a dysfunctional relic, as you imply.

You asked for vigorous defense of the 1911A1. Here it is. Happy holidays to you and to all TFL members.

[This message has been edited by RWK (edited December 17, 1999).]
 
I have any number of handguns, revolvers and semi-autos. I enjoy shooting them all but for everyday carry I use the 1911. I shoot it better than any of my other handguns, it feels much better in my hand than any of my revolvers and 99% of the rest of the semi-autos and it just keeps on chugging along.
I have never felt that it was too big or heavy for concealed carry.

Since none of us will be around in 88 years so we will never know what arms will be in use then but I am willing to wager that somewhere, someplace a 1911/1911A1 will be in somebody's holster.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"



[This message has been edited by Jim V (edited December 17, 1999).]
 
wow, great thread... learned alot. I would not have considered buying one until today. I just think it sounds fun to get one and tinker with it a bit... tweak it out a little, if you know what I mean.

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"...you're thinkin was that 5 shots or was it 6? Well, you've gotta ask yourself one question: Do you feel lucky??? ...Well, do ya PUNK!?!?
 
Roon,

My bad. Tecolote is from Nahuatl tecolotl, owl in English.

Bookman,

Thanks for the clarification.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
Utterly reliable (if you use Jhon Broening's original design)
A superb cartridge
A consistent trigger pull
Rapid reloading
Only one triggrt pull, no DA/SA transition

Old John knew what he was doing!
 
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