FBI Standard Issue - What is your final answer?

R

rock_jock

New member
I was at the range yesterday and made the mistake of striking up a conversation with a handgun "expert". After telling me that dry-firing a revolver could cause serious damage, he showed me his carry piece, a Sig P229, informing me "this is what all the big police agencies and the FBI carry, blah, blah, blah." I was under the impression that the FBI issues the Glock 23 these days (standard issue, not HRT), but I didn't want to contradict him without knowing the facts since I figured there was enough BS floating around.

So, what does the FBI issue, or is there a choice?
 
Glock .40s, and the FBI SWAT guys that come to my department's range use the .45 single action, Springfield Armory if I read the slide correctly.
Now there is probably a mix of Sig 226s and 1076s left floating around, but I don't know.
 
Glock 40s

Yes, it is Glocks. Specifically the 22 and 23. Fed 168 is correct about the left over carry pieces, Sigs and Smiths. But last I heard they are trying to phase those out eventually until its just the Glock.

BTW...The Sigs allowed are the 226,228 in 9mm and the 220 in .45, but I did hear recently that since adopting the Glock in .40 that Sigs in .40 are now allowed. Which would include the 229 like that guy said. But its not "standard" issue.
 
The FBI is just as or even more fickle than the avg. Firing Line collector. Gone are the days when the only choices were Colt or S&W .38, .357 magnum revolvers.

Today there are so many good manufacturers they are constantly shopping around for that elusive "ultimate" handgun, when in truth there is no such thing. I think the FBI were fine with their Sigs. And I would have said the same thing if they started out with Glocks, HKs, or even Colt .45s. The Secret Service just adopted the Sig P229 around the same time and I don't think they demand anything different from their weapons than the FBI. The FBI went to a COMPLETELY different weapon system. And for what? Maybe they got a better deal with Glocks but its their agents that have to re-train while the next flavor of the month is forced on them.

Being called the official FBI handgun doesn't hold much meaning for me.

[Edited by Ian11 on 01-28-2001 at 10:00 PM]
 
the FBI's standard issued sidearms are the Glock 22 and 23, most agents opt for the G22 though. if agents were around when they issued Sigs or something else they may still carry those guns. before the Glocks the FBI issued the Sig 228 but never the 229. FBI agents also have a good sized list of other guns they may carry but the majority carry the G22 or G23. their issued ammo is 165gr Federal Hydra-Shok.

FBI HRT and SWAT are issued the Springfield Armory TRP-Pro. it's a highly customized 1911 that runs about $2000.
 
What Ian11 said. LE agencies are constantly chasing their tails trying to figure out the "magic package" (perfect pistol/calibre). The 10mm looked promising and was certainly powerful enough. But alas, to much recoil for certain agents. In the end maybe they'll go back to the 357 maggie? No wait, to much recoil. The search goes on.....:)J. Parker
 
rock_jock:

That guy is smokin crack. The Sigs are being phased out of duty. They are good guns but expensive and not as durable inside or out compared to the Glock.

Most of the federal agencies are carrying Glock. Sig and Beretta are being phased out.

J.Parker is right! "My hand hurts" or it "snaps" too much were the whines the firearms instrutcors heard. After too many were disqualified with their 10mm pistols. "Certain" wimpy accountant, attorney, linguist, and chemist never-ever-shot-a-gun-in-my-life-before-Quantico type SAs couldn't qualify with the 10mm round, hence the 40 short and weak.

They should be packin some Glock 29s in 10mm. Same size as a G23 but with 180 grains at 1,100 fps. Now that's some fpe into the BG!
 
jtduncan: INS is still issuing Beretta 96 DAO to uniformed agents. Plain clothes agents are now issued the HK USP Compact in .40, with the LEM trigger. Uniformed agents are being given the opportunity to purchase the USP Compact at a reduced price.

M1911
 
G22 and G23, as stated. However, the Bureau has always (for many decades) given wide latitude for SAs to carry other handguns. I am told by the staff at the Quantico Marine Corps Exchange sporting goods department, which sells many personally owned sidearms to SAs during their four-month initial training course, that Sig P-226s/P-229s and various SA 1911A1-types are frequently procured.
 
Power Obsessed

jtduncan

Not only was the 10mm recoil heavy for the avg. SA, the 10mm S&W pistols that were procured had its share of problems also.

I've seen 95 lb women shoot .44 Mag and 10mm accurately with no problems. The ability to shoot these stout cartridges is mostly psychological and has little to do with how tough you are or even your strength.

Dirty Harry movies have done more to spread misconceptions about what handguns can do than anything else. A high recoiling round that has to be launched from a larger platform does not a better gun make. IMHO, a person with a 9mm who is confident in their abilities is going to be more effective than somebody who's put too much faith in a cartridge. Also, the 10mm is simply not a good cartridge as a general issue sidearm. If it works for you good for you. Most "experts" agree all handguns are underpowered. All. Bring a rifle or a 12 gauge into the discussion, then we've got the kind of difference most people are thinking of.

Also, I have yet to hear any substantial complaints from LEO's about the .40 S&W's lack of power. In fact, all I've heard is praise about its street performance. The proof is in the pudding not some statistical mumbo jumbo.

[Edited by Ian11 on 01-30-2001 at 12:22 AM]
 
The guy's probably watching too much X-Files on TV. They still have those two choads carting around some sort of SIG.

I occasionally see an older (late 40s, early 50s) FBI agent at one of the ranges I frequent. He still carries his Model 13 Smith & Wesson.
 
According to Walt Rauch in the Glock Annual 2000, the FBI has taken delivery of over 7000 Glock 40s, and about 2500 agents are using the G26/27 as authorized personal guns.

Class cores tracked over 6 classes (3 w SIG 9s, 3 w Glock 40s) showed an increase of 1-4 pts. So they are shooting a bigger (.400 v .355) heavier (165 v 147) bullet at the same speed (980 fps) just as well.

The guns do seem to be more durable/trouble free than the SIGs too.

DEA classes using the Glock 40s say pretty much the same thing BTW.
 
The P229 in .40 S&W is an approved individually-purchased weapon, but it is not issue. It is popular for folks previously issued the P226 & P228 in 9-mm who want a more potent cartridge in a familiar platform.
 
A fishing buddy graduated the FBI Academy little more than a year ago. This Christmas we were talking about handguns, and fishing, and he said the FBI were issueing SIG 226 and 228 when he graduated. He didn't say if they still are issueing SIG's or the FBI had changed to Glock. He now carries a Glock 22 and says he likes it. Also, he said that he's going to pick up G27 as backup and off duty piece. So we know of at least one special agent who is using a G22 as his duty gun.

Flattop
 
Guys, there is no standard issue; there is only what the last purchase order was.
 
What Round Do They Use?

I bought some 165 gr Hydrashocks after hearing that was the standard FBI issue. Now I've heard that what I bought is a "Personal Defense" down-loaded version. What's up??? What do the big guys use??
 
Currently, the Fibbies issue Glock 22s and 23s, using a medium power (downloaded for controllability) 165 Hydrashok. Other weapons which are still in the inventory and available for use by agents (upon qualifying with them) include Sig 220s, 226s, and 228s. S&W .45s have bene allowed as well, and the 1076 is still riding in the holsters of several agents (after S&W worked out the design/production flaws, the 1076 has been giving yeoman service to the Feds). The Model 13 is still in use by a lot of agents who "grew up" with them.

Beyond these, the HRT has PO 13.45s worked up by Les Baer, but these are extremely maintenance intense and unreliable and the HRT isn't quite happy with them. For use by HRT and SWAT qualified Special Agents, the Feds procured Springfield 1911 patterns, made to the Feds specifications. The standard load is the 230gr Golden Saber.



[Edited by buzz_knox on 04-21-2001 at 11:00 AM]
 
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