FBI Raid
- Thread starter invention_45
- Start date
Given that it's been a couple months and no charges have been filed, and that the FBI even told me, in so many words, they didn't really expect to find child porn on my seized computers, this looks like an excuse to disarm a licensed gun owner.
What does "in so many words" exactly mean"? As stated earlier - search warrants are issued on specific information. Were any other items taken from your residence - other that your P.C. & gun.
Who is stalking you & why?
Your story is somewhat vague - clarification please.
12-34hom.
What does "in so many words" exactly mean"? As stated earlier - search warrants are issued on specific information. Were any other items taken from your residence - other that your P.C. & gun.
Who is stalking you & why?
Your story is somewhat vague - clarification please.
12-34hom.
Nope, it is nothing at all like AF. Sorry but your lack of knowledge is glaring and very obvious, not only on AF but also the conducting of investigations.
1) AF is a civil process. SW are criminal. 2 completely different acts. I know it's confusing to the uninformed but it's different and requires different burdens. You also have no knowledge of how AF operates either nor the amount and degree of background investigation required before assets can be seized. It's definitely not as easy, nor cut and dried, as you imply.
2) Conducting a SW and not making an arrest is very common. Again, you are showing your complete lack of knowledge of investigative process. SW obtain evidence. The investigating agency will then process the evidence and determine if the items seized go to substantiate the violations. That info will be presented back to the grand jury and/or prosecutor who will then issue an indictment (GJ) or file charges via an information. That process may take months and sometimes years depending on the investigation before charges are filed and an arrest is made.
Please, at least know what you are talking about before you embarrass yourself further.
Sounds like they are after something else.The gun sounds like a big deal with your attorney, it must have some key importance or there is something your attorney isnt telling you.I'd raise a stink anyways and try and get it back.
"Given that it's been a couple months and no charges have been filed, and that the FBI even told me, in so many words, they didn't really expect to find child porn on my seized computers, this looks like an excuse to disarm a licensed gun owner".
It looks like an excuse for something besides the alledged child porn.
"Given that it's been a couple months and no charges have been filed, and that the FBI even told me, in so many words, they didn't really expect to find child porn on my seized computers, this looks like an excuse to disarm a licensed gun owner".
It looks like an excuse for something besides the alledged child porn.
"gdm, OR the feds don't want to admit they acted on bad info."
I'm crushed,say it couldnt happen.
Not in todays technological sneakin age where everyone is under suspicion for something.What a fine mess he is into now though.Bad info or weak case, he's still out his gun and left out in the open, with no answers no doubt.
I'm crushed,say it couldnt happen.
Not in todays technological sneakin age where everyone is under suspicion for something.What a fine mess he is into now though.Bad info or weak case, he's still out his gun and left out in the open, with no answers no doubt.Scott Conklin
New member
Anytime government confiscates real property without giving you your day in court it is a practical example of AF. I suppose one can narrow down their definition to whatever makes it simpler for them to deal with but that does not change the fact the property is gone and no conviction exists, against the person or the property, to justify it while the only way to recover said property or value thereof is thru government channels.
But hey, I've only been agitating against AF for 20 years so what do I know? Whatever.
But hey, I've only been agitating against AF for 20 years so what do I know? Whatever.
Edward429451
Moderator
Look at it from the lawyers perspective for a minute. He operates in a defacto system and you are one measly case for him. Those people he deals with every day and they butter his bread. They don't want you to have your gun back. Why should he make waves to get you your gun back when he can say "Don't make a stink about it", and you'll very probably take the big bad edumacated lawyers high priced advice and concoct a rationalization of oh there must be a good reason for it and leave it alone. He wins both ways then. You're left respecting him, and the defacto system says he's a good guy then too.
Bottom line is that you didn't hire a lawyer to plea bargain your gun away from you. You could've did that yourself with the DA and saved some money. A high priced lawyer has a duty to perform or shouldn't be paid. Make him get your gun back for you or stop payment.
Bottom line is that you didn't hire a lawyer to plea bargain your gun away from you. You could've did that yourself with the DA and saved some money. A high priced lawyer has a duty to perform or shouldn't be paid. Make him get your gun back for you or stop payment.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
2nd Am - that is EXACTLY a correct analysis. BUT, in fairness, the definition presribed to the phrase "asset forfeiture" by MOST people on TFL and elsewhere, is that kind of asset forfeiture which is specifically authorized by law associated with the war on some drugs (legal theft
). This is certainly a TYPE of "asset forfeiture", under a more expansive definition, but it's different because it is, by definition, an illegal forfeiture if the police do not give the gun back, and nothing in the law authorizes that. Once an investigation is completed, they must turn over all evidence. Here, it couldn't have been evidence of ANY crime (not related to alleged child porn; not related to any weapons charges, not related to any other type of charge, if the story is accurate as told).Umm, I think 2A knows the difference between AF and a search warrant - they're not phrases even in the same comparable class - makes no sense. The latter may and often does lead to the former, in drug cases.
Edward429451
Moderator
There would have to be a nexus, connecting the gun to a crime. In this case there was no nexus because there was no crime. If a crime had been commited, They would still have to prove a nexus to the crime. That makes this one cut & dried.
So give me my gun back.
Get mad. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.
So give me my gun back.
Get mad. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.
invention_45
New member
I'm not supposed to talk about the facts, so I can't. At the very least, I have to be circumspect. But I'll do the best I can.
I do not know. I do have a roommate who uses a particular phone number (I have two) to access the internet. I've never seen any porn of any kind on his screen nor on my printer, nor heard any talk about it from him or any of his friends.
He uses dialup. Just before the service of the warrant, maybe a month before, my daughter called on my cell phone apologizing for using my minutes (I always complain to her about it otherwise she'll sit on the phone with me continuously) but saying that she used my cell number because she called the normal number (the one used by the roommate sometimes) and got a screeching sound. I just thought it was a cheap answering machine I'd bought, so told her to just keep the conversations short and use the cell phone, not having time to mess with figuring out what was wrong.
About a month after the raid, I connected a telephone back to that line. I immediately began getting one-ring calls on it. Thinking they were harassing hangup calls, I reported them to the police and used *57. A few days (and maybe 10 calls later) I was sitting thinking and it occurred to me that the one-ring thing was so consistent that it was more likely a phone problem rather than a caller's capability to make the phone ring one time only (so as to avoid caller ID). Try it sometime. It's very hard to make a phone ring exactly once consistently.
So, I made sure nothing else was connected to that line and dialed it from my cell phone. It went to a modem. My first thought was that it was crossed with another line. I called 611, instructing them to locate the problem but NOT to fix it, since it could be an explanation for the raid. They sent a technician at my insistence. He suggested I try unforwarding the phone.
I was stunned. That worked. I have never EVER forwarded that phone (it's a relatively new line intended mostly to thwart the stalker). Much less to a number with a modem answering it.
I then called the phone company back and, much to my surprise, they told me the number to which my phone had been forwarded. I called it and sure enough, it was a modem.
Over several weeks I researched things and found that Verizon, on their security page, describes a thing called "modem hijacking". The deal seems to be that, while using the internet, if you acknowledge one of those "you won..." popups, it can and often does install malicious software, and it most often is software that can take control of your modem. Since your modem has control of your phone (it can dial), one of the things it can do is forward your phone without your knowledge.
So something weird is defininely going on with that phone, and perhaps that explains the probable cause for the warrant.
Yes, and I'm just now dragging the stalker into county court, the results of which are arrest warrants for his failure to appear at trial.
Yes. But I'm not about to let some jerk chase me out of where I've lived all my life.
See above.
Me? A gang? At over 50 years old, and as unaggressive and law-abiding as I am (probably 3 moving violations over my entire life) I seriously doubt a gang would take me if I wanted to be in one.
Wish I knew.
I do not know. I do have a roommate who uses a particular phone number (I have two) to access the internet. I've never seen any porn of any kind on his screen nor on my printer, nor heard any talk about it from him or any of his friends.
He uses dialup. Just before the service of the warrant, maybe a month before, my daughter called on my cell phone apologizing for using my minutes (I always complain to her about it otherwise she'll sit on the phone with me continuously) but saying that she used my cell number because she called the normal number (the one used by the roommate sometimes) and got a screeching sound. I just thought it was a cheap answering machine I'd bought, so told her to just keep the conversations short and use the cell phone, not having time to mess with figuring out what was wrong.
About a month after the raid, I connected a telephone back to that line. I immediately began getting one-ring calls on it. Thinking they were harassing hangup calls, I reported them to the police and used *57. A few days (and maybe 10 calls later) I was sitting thinking and it occurred to me that the one-ring thing was so consistent that it was more likely a phone problem rather than a caller's capability to make the phone ring one time only (so as to avoid caller ID). Try it sometime. It's very hard to make a phone ring exactly once consistently.
So, I made sure nothing else was connected to that line and dialed it from my cell phone. It went to a modem. My first thought was that it was crossed with another line. I called 611, instructing them to locate the problem but NOT to fix it, since it could be an explanation for the raid. They sent a technician at my insistence. He suggested I try unforwarding the phone.
I was stunned. That worked. I have never EVER forwarded that phone (it's a relatively new line intended mostly to thwart the stalker). Much less to a number with a modem answering it.
I then called the phone company back and, much to my surprise, they told me the number to which my phone had been forwarded. I called it and sure enough, it was a modem.
Over several weeks I researched things and found that Verizon, on their security page, describes a thing called "modem hijacking". The deal seems to be that, while using the internet, if you acknowledge one of those "you won..." popups, it can and often does install malicious software, and it most often is software that can take control of your modem. Since your modem has control of your phone (it can dial), one of the things it can do is forward your phone without your knowledge.
So something weird is defininely going on with that phone, and perhaps that explains the probable cause for the warrant.
Yes, and I'm just now dragging the stalker into county court, the results of which are arrest warrants for his failure to appear at trial.
Yes. But I'm not about to let some jerk chase me out of where I've lived all my life.
See above.
Me? A gang? At over 50 years old, and as unaggressive and law-abiding as I am (probably 3 moving violations over my entire life) I seriously doubt a gang would take me if I wanted to be in one.
Wish I knew.
invention_45
New member
Aint it nice? I was telling a friend whom I've known very well for over 10 years who knows better than me being involved in such a thing, and her first reaction hit the nail on the head. It makes you feel dirty, innocent or not.
Gotta be careful about recording things in Florida. When the FBI was told I had video surveillance they were inordinately interested in whether I had audio (I don't, but after a check of the legality on my own property, I might install it). I think the reason they were so concerned was that they threatened (I heard it) roommate just outside the door.
But I definitely won't say one word to them without going through the lawyer.
invention_45
New member
Given how they enthusiastically and effectively acted on information warning of both the Murrah Building bombing and 9/11, I do suppose they are far too busy to stand around the water cooler.
See my other comments. That is probably more than I should have said about the investigation.
invention_45
New member
It's particularly confusing that they seized the gun "for my(the agent's) safety", seeing as how the gun sat well withing my reach for five full minutes before anybody noticed it. It's not a pop gun. It's a USP45, black, and was very visible against the light brown dining room table. For all they knew, it was a click of the safety away from being live. In fact, it wasn't. There was no round in the chamber. No agent's gun was drawn once they were inside. If I were inclined to shoot them, wouldn't that have been the time?
I was told my stuff (4 computers, 1 gun) would be returned in 2-3 months. I asked for the gun back, giving the stalker as the reason, which is in fact the reason, and was refused (through my lawyer) after a week or two. I plan to wait until 2-1/2 months have passed, a reasonable time, to start complaining to my lawyer about the return of ALL of my stuff.
I'm only refraining from aggravating the FBI every day because I learned a long time ago that going against my lawyer's advice can be extremely expensive.
invention_45
New member
Yes, but what? I can't think of anything else that would result in a search warrant that, in each paragraph describing things to be seized, referred to media or something else containing child porn. The only paragraph that didn't was paperwork showing ownership of the premises.
I will raise a stink. But I will do that after I give the FBI the time they said it would take. Since they said 2-3 months, I'll start at 2-1/2 months.
invention_45
New member
OK, now my comments in general.
Thanks a lot for all your replies. Even the ones that sort of smirk that I might not be so innocent are, believe it or not, welcomed.
It's not easy being in the dark about this sort of thing. I've waited this long to put it out there because I sort of have grown to respect the members of this forum and, as I said, even being falsely accused (I consider it that despite the lack of charges) of such a thing makes me feel dirty. I'm not easily embarrassed, but this did it.
I posted because, during the stalking episode, which is now nearly put to bed, I found that keeping to myself and not seeking outside commentary is the worst thing I could have done. I appreciate ALL your comments.
Thanks!
Thanks a lot for all your replies. Even the ones that sort of smirk that I might not be so innocent are, believe it or not, welcomed.
It's not easy being in the dark about this sort of thing. I've waited this long to put it out there because I sort of have grown to respect the members of this forum and, as I said, even being falsely accused (I consider it that despite the lack of charges) of such a thing makes me feel dirty. I'm not easily embarrassed, but this did it.
I posted because, during the stalking episode, which is now nearly put to bed, I found that keeping to myself and not seeking outside commentary is the worst thing I could have done. I appreciate ALL your comments.
Thanks!
After the fact.
I hope this business is cleared up soon for you.Id drop your isp and have long distance calling blocked from your internet connection phone line.Remove call forwarding and any of the other extra features.Drop your isp for a more secure one,add "adaware" and nortons antivirus.
Theres many ways to protect yourself from these intrusions that can wreck your life and in spite of all of them,hackers still manage to find a way around them.They can steal your mail and get your ssn, pay $49.95 on those internet search pages and get your address and age and any other info,opening you up to an id theft.It happens more than one could guess.Id put a fraud alert on your ssn and credit bureau also.Takes just a phone call.
Stalkers do wierd things.you have to not only use personal protection but also guard against id theft.
I hope this business is cleared up soon for you.Id drop your isp and have long distance calling blocked from your internet connection phone line.Remove call forwarding and any of the other extra features.Drop your isp for a more secure one,add "adaware" and nortons antivirus.
Theres many ways to protect yourself from these intrusions that can wreck your life and in spite of all of them,hackers still manage to find a way around them.They can steal your mail and get your ssn, pay $49.95 on those internet search pages and get your address and age and any other info,opening you up to an id theft.It happens more than one could guess.Id put a fraud alert on your ssn and credit bureau also.Takes just a phone call.
Stalkers do wierd things.you have to not only use personal protection but also guard against id theft.
invention_45
New member
You got that right. And I think I have a medium-to-mild case.
I already got my driver license "red flagged". That means if I'm stopped I have to have my passport and birth certificate or I go to jail. I did that to prevent the stalker from using my license. I already went through a thing with a fraudulent Comcast account opened by him in my name.
But thanks for the suggestion about the SSN. I did not know I could get that flagged too.