FBI Raid

I

invention_45

New member
G'moning, gentlemen.

I've been off here about 2 months.

Why?

The FBI raided my home for, of all things, child porn.

To give you an idea of how idiotic that idea is, my ex-wife of 18 years is willing to fly from a foreign country (she's a naturalized US citizen) and testify that she's never seen any indication that I have an interest in porn at all, let along child porn.

The reason I am writing this here is that I have had a change of thinking as a result of the raid.

I used to think that the government's using any excuse to disarm citizens was a little on the fringe of thought.

During the raid, my gun was seized "for the FBI's safety". The gun was sitting on the table two feet behind me, easily within my reach, for a full 5 minutes into the raid (light brown table, dark black gun) before anybody got concerned enough about "their own safety" to mention its presence.

My lawyer says that the wisest thing for me is to not press the issue of their theft of my gun in court, even though he's sure I would get it back if I did. I'm taking his advice.

Given that it's been a couple months and no charges have been filed, and that the FBI even told me, in so many words, they didn't really expect to find child porn on my seized computers, this looks like an excuse to disarm a licensed gun owner.

So my thinking has changed. Note that the local police have seen my holster at least 25 times and never bothered to ask whether I had a gun (I have a stalking problem, so the holster's always out on the table for when I leave the house). They clearly do not see me as somebody likely to shoot them, and they are right.

Hope it never happens to you.
 
What prompted the raid in the first place? And you have a stalking problem? Ever thought about moving? Seems to be more here than meets the eye. No offense, but a you a member of a gang or something? Or did the Federal Bureau of Intimidation just single you out at random?:confused: :confused:
 
Wow. Now you'll get to experience the stigma of being a purveyor of kiddie porn even though you're innocent. As to the gun? I would make an inquiry anyway. Plus, from now on, make sure that any interaction with law enforcement is recorded, whether it be on the phone, in person, whatever. And under no circumstances meet with them without your lawyer or a witness present.
 
About 300 million people in the US and the FBI singles out one innocent person, raids their home, takes their computer and gun just because they don't have anything else to do.
Hmmmmm, anyone else think there's a whole lot more to the story?
 
Try this on for size, ISP2605: Stalker calls up Feds, leaves anonmymous tip that stalkee has nekkid child pictures on his computer and a commie flag tacked up in his garage. FBI arrives, notes that he doesn't even have a garage, siezes his computer(s) to check for yeechy porn, secures his weapon as a matter of routine and, as a matter of routine, keeps it unless he raises a fuss.

All pretty standard stuff. Of course, I'm just spitballing here. Feel free to accuse the former suspect all you like. After all, the po-lice wouldn't ever go after anyone by mistake or due to the malice of a third party, would they? At least, not until it happens to you.
 
A liberal is a conservative that hasn't been mugged yet. Sorry about your troubles, and I'm not calling you a liberal, but nobody sees things are out of control until they get caught up in something not of their making. Take this opportunity to educate yourself, good people get railroaded every day. You'll find plenty of people in a similar situation. Have you made any enemies that would want to frame you? It's rediculously easy to do. You used to have to put your name on a complaint, but anyone with a grudge can now file one anonymously.:(

badbob
 
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There seems to be a lot of misconceptions here about search warrants. I'm not singling you out Roberta X, but here's a prime example.

Try this on for size, ISP2605: Stalker calls up Feds, leaves anonmymous tip that stalkee has nekkid child pictures on his computer and a commie flag tacked up in his garage.
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A search warrant cannot legally be issued based solely on information provided by an anonymous informant. The courts have recognized that police informants operate for selfish reasons, and their "tips", by themselves, do not provide probable cause.

There's a lot of case law on this, not the least of which is The State of Nebraska vs. Terry W. Lytle. In this case, Omaha police received a tip from an anonymous informant that Lytle had stolen motorcycles in his garage. In short, a magistrate wrongly issued a search warrant, and even though stolen property was discovered, an appeals court threw out his conviction by a lower court during a suppression hearing. Of interest here is the following statement by the appeals court during their review:

A search warrant, to be valid, must be supported by an affidavit establishing probable cause, or reasonable suspicion founded upon articulable facts. State v. Morrison, 243 Neb. 469, 500 N.W.2d 547 (1993). In evaluating probable cause for the issuance of a search warrant, a magistrate must make a practical, commonsense decision whether, given the totality of the circumstances set forth in the affidavit before the magistrate, including the veracity of and basis of knowledge of the persons supplying hearsay information, (emphasis mine) there is a fair probability that contraband or evidence of a crime will be found in a particular place. State v. Grimes, 246 Neb. 473, 519 N.W.2d 507 (1994), overruled on other grounds, State v. Burlison, ante p. 190, 583 N.W.2d 31 (1998). The duty of the reviewing court is to ensure that the magistrate issuing a search warrant had a substantial basis for determining that probable cause existed. Id.
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The appeals court summarized thusly:

The affidavit in support of the issuance of the search warrant was insufficient to establish the reliability of the informant and, therefore, insufficient to establish probable cause. Accordingly, the evidence seized pursuant to the search warrant should have been suppressed. Moreover, because the illegally seized evidence was the only evidence as to Lytle's guilt, this cause is remanded with directions to vacate Lytle's convictions and dismiss the charges against him.

REVERSED AND REMANDED WITH
DIRECTIONS TO DISMISS.
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Are bad search warrants issued? You betcha! The responsibility for these rests not only with law enforcement, but with the issuing judge as well. Law enforcement can be held accountable, but judges aren't, unless the case is submitted to the bar association's disciplinary committee, and that doesn't usually happen.

Law enforcement officers are not attorneys, and when submitting an affidavit for a warrant to a judge, they're relying on that judge to review the details and decide whether or not solid probable cause exists. When a judge can't be held accountable, he tends to get a bit... sloppy. After all, it's not his neck on the line.

I've been in full time law enforcement for almost 30 years, 5 yrs with the fed and almost 25 as a municipal police officer, and I have never seen a search warrant issued based solely on a "tip" provided by an informant, anonymous or otherwise. Before we even think about a search warrant, tips are investigated. Surveillance of the property is maintained and photographs are taken. A cooperative informant may be sent in with a wire, and any transactions are done with marked money. The process can take weeks or even months.

Invention_45, I have no idea whether there's more to your story or not. As I said, bad warrants are issued, but I think it important for those reading here to know a little bit more about the process of obtaining a search warrant.
 
Try this on for size, ISP2605: Stalker calls up Feds, leaves anonmymous tip that stalkee has nekkid child pictures on his computer and a commie flag tacked up in his garage. FBI arrives, notes that he doesn't even have a garage, siezes his computer(s) to check for yeechy porn, secures his weapon as a matter of routine and, as a matter of routine, keeps it unless he raises a fuss.
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Sorry, but search warrants take a lot more than what you provided. Obviously you've never done search warrants. I spent 35+ yrs in LE doing all kinds of search warrants. Given the info you provided a judge wouldn't issue one. BTW, just for your education, judges issue search warrants, not LEOs nor the FBI. Search warrants are not issued on anonymous tips. Also, a return has to be made back to the judge with what info is seized. Don't believe everything you hear in some bar or watch on TV. Search warrants aren't done that way.
Try thinking up another story, but this time use valid info and some knowledge of what it takes to get a search warrant.
His story is full of holes.
 
From The Law Enforcement News: http://www.lib.jjay.cuny.edu/len/2000/04.15/

Police let down by Court’s anonymous-tip decision
Police groups were frustrated and baffled last month by a U.S. Supreme Court decision that seemed to zig when it was expected to zag in an appeal involving law enforcement’s authority to conduct firearms searches based on anonymous tips.
Rejecting the argument put forth by the state of Florida, the Clinton administration and a broad coalition of state attorneys general, the Court ruled unanimously on March 28 that in order for an anonymous tip to be reliable enough to justify police action, even when a firearm is reported, it must do more than simply describe a suspect’s appearance and location...

and from: http://www.cfcrimeline.com/anonymoustips.html

If you have information on a crime that is occuring at this time, or the exact location of a wanted person, please call CrimeLine at 800-423-TIPS (8477) to speak to a live call taker. You will still be completely anonymous and be eligible for a reward.

Please provide the following information:
Wanted persons:
Suspect name (First and last)
Suspect's Race (Black, While, Asian, Hispanic, etc.)
Date or birth or Approximate age
Location (Where does the Suspect live or work?)
Other Crimes:
Where did this incident occur?
Who was involved? (Please provide detailed information)
When did this incident occur?
Click here to leave an anonymous tip

Please note:
If you would like to check the status of your tip call CrimeLine Monday - Friday 9:00am - 4:00pm, giving your confidential tip code number.

Tips that lead to the felony arrest of suspects and/or the recovery of stolen property and drugs are eligible for cash rewards of up to $1,000, which are paid to tipsters on an anonymous basis.

badbob
 
Guys, Roberta's hypothetical is entirely possible if you just change one little fact: have his stalker go from anonymous to not anonymous - voila, a warrant will be granted. Entirely possible, and in fact the most likely scenario of the guy is innocent (as it sounds).

I would DEFINITELY go against the advice of the lawyer and demand my gun back. You don't get what you want by not asking for it. You get what you want by asking for it, and more. If you're innocent, you act like it, and get hoppin' mad and indignant about the whole thing, and demand complete vindication, including immediate return of your legally owned firearm.

And I don't think that the FBI *sets out* to do this just as a ruse to get your firearms. They probably did have some kind of tip, as from your stalker. But them attempting to steal your gun (which is really what they're doing, isn't it?, as it bears ZERO relation to any crime or alleged crime) is just a by product of them being in your house, being anti-gun, and not following the constitution. When the government STEALS your stuff, without any compensation, when clearly, no crime has been committed which could possibly relate to the firearm, that *should* be grounds for tarring and feathering (and of course, firing) the government worker who authorized the theft. Unfortunately it is not.
 
The OP knows what they were looking for and he knows exactly what the seized. How? He would have been given a copy of the search warrant and he would have been given a copy, as a receipt, of everything seized.
BTW, it will take more than just the report of a non-anonymous reporter to get a search warrant. There will involve some leg work to substantiate the report and also provide additional info before a judge will grant a search warrant.
Again, you'll have to come up with a better story. I've done far too many search warrants, both state and federal, and know what it takes to get one.
 
Really? The bulk of Asset Forfeiture stems from anonymous tips and no charges are ever filed(thus making clear no actual evidence was presented and thus nothing more legit than the tip/s were actually available). Perhaps you know just a smidge less than you claim to?

Invention, don't merely make a claim for the gun, HARRASS the bastards. Sue them. Write letters to every elected cretin in your vicinity as well as to your local papers and Blog about it, too. These creatures need dragged through the mud in just exactly the style they have now dragged your name through the mud.
 
I would DEFINITELY go against the advice of the lawyer and demand my gun back.
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I'm not sure about that. There may be a specific reason (that has not been mentioned) for the lawyer not wanting to stir up the dust concerning the gun. Alternatively, it may cost more (possibly much more) in attorney fees to try and get it back -- meaning more than the gun is worth.

Sorry to hear about this stuff, Invention. Hope things work out for the better.
 
Really? The bulk of Asset Forfeiture stems from anonymous tips and no charges are ever filed(thus making clear no actual evidence was presented and thus nothing more legit than the tip/s were actually available). Perhaps you know just a smidge less than you claim to?
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Since the topic has nothing at all to do with asset forfeiture then it's very obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about. 2 completely different topics with 2 completely different legal burdens.
 
Since the topic has nothing at all to do with asset forfeiture then it's very obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about. 2 completely different topics with 2 completely different legal burdens.
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Funny stuff. Thx.

This IS an example of AF. One of many ways authorities at various levels sieze property without a charge ever being filed or any prosecution ever taking place. The burden to reaquire the property then falls entirely on the victim(and since no charges get filed one cannot call them a criminal nor even a suspect after the fact).

You made a blanket statement regarding warrants. I did not quantify my comments regarding AF. As such we don't know if there is any difference in burden, though we now have a better clue who doesn't know their subject matter.

What we have here is yet another example of a certain segment making a mad dash to defend whatever is done by the authorities, even if it hints at impugning one of our own. Whatever, enjoy and, as things continue to get ever so slowly warmer, nobody should wonder what the reaction will be when it's their turn.
 
No 2nd Amendment. This is not a civil asset forfeiture case. Quit trying to make it so. It is entirely off-topic. Furthermore, it is a ruse to sidetrack the current thread.
 
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