Faster Burning Powder for Shorter Barrel?
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Marco Califo
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Yeah, what he said ^^^.
You do not gain knowledge with ignorant theorizing.
You need solid fundamental knowledge. Not imagining laws of physics.
The Deepwater Horizon disaster was caused by educated experts "thinking too much" and convincing themselves of a fallacy (they knew better of). They opened a valve and 20 seconds later they were all dead. Now ask yourself: Did they gain knowledge?
You do not gain knowledge with ignorant theorizing.
You need solid fundamental knowledge. Not imagining laws of physics.
The Deepwater Horizon disaster was caused by educated experts "thinking too much" and convincing themselves of a fallacy (they knew better of). They opened a valve and 20 seconds later they were all dead. Now ask yourself: Did they gain knowledge?
Dispense1710,
Let me suggest that rather than fully revive an old thread (aka, making it a zombie thread), I would suggest starting a new thread with a summary of what you like about the old thread and then including a link to the old thread. That way, people who didn't notice the old dates (something I've done myself more than once) would be more clear about what they were looking at and responding to.
Let me suggest that rather than fully revive an old thread (aka, making it a zombie thread), I would suggest starting a new thread with a summary of what you like about the old thread and then including a link to the old thread. That way, people who didn't notice the old dates (something I've done myself more than once) would be more clear about what they were looking at and responding to.
Dispense1710
New member
Good suggestion Unclenick. But I am not one for trying to summarize what I may not fully understand on a public forum.
But your post above (along with MetalGods quoted text of yours) lit a few lightbulbs for me. I never considered the effects of SD on internal ballistics. Or how surface area configuration (and/or inhibitors) determine a powder's burn rate. Or how pressure and temperature alter the burn rate of a powder, for the better or worse. Or how gases can upset a bullet post barrel without sufficient pressure drop. And I don't even know what Naramore's picture is telling me (yet) but I know what to lookup for more info about it. Milosovich's experiment matching velocities using different powders sounds like a well thought out way to determine what was happening internally using outside measures (velocity and powder weight), so I will read more of his works. And the graphs helped to visualize it all.
Anyway, I enjoyed the information in this thread. I take none of it as gospel. Sorry for digging up bones.
@Marco Califo, I believe it is good to learn from experience AND theory. And I generally keep asking "why" until an answer makes sense in way I understand. I would hope knowledge was gained from the DeepWater Horizon disaster, it is unfortunate that lives were paid for it.
But your post above (along with MetalGods quoted text of yours) lit a few lightbulbs for me. I never considered the effects of SD on internal ballistics. Or how surface area configuration (and/or inhibitors) determine a powder's burn rate. Or how pressure and temperature alter the burn rate of a powder, for the better or worse. Or how gases can upset a bullet post barrel without sufficient pressure drop. And I don't even know what Naramore's picture is telling me (yet) but I know what to lookup for more info about it. Milosovich's experiment matching velocities using different powders sounds like a well thought out way to determine what was happening internally using outside measures (velocity and powder weight), so I will read more of his works. And the graphs helped to visualize it all.
Anyway, I enjoyed the information in this thread. I take none of it as gospel. Sorry for digging up bones.
@Marco Califo, I believe it is good to learn from experience AND theory. And I generally keep asking "why" until an answer makes sense in way I understand. I would hope knowledge was gained from the DeepWater Horizon disaster, it is unfortunate that lives were paid for it.
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Marco Califo
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I support closing and locking this thread.
Lol would that involve throwing away a key at the same time by any chance ;-)
I was reading through the thread and came across a post by me , err wait what ??? Haha that’s when I realized it was an old thread . Interestingly, I didn’t remember the thread until I saw my post
.
Welcome to the forum Despence1710
I was reading through the thread and came across a post by me , err wait what ??? Haha that’s when I realized it was an old thread . Interestingly, I didn’t remember the thread until I saw my post
.Welcome to the forum Despence1710
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Marco Califo
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Throw away the key, shoot it with silver bullets, drive a wooden stake through its heart. Burn it on a pile of burning tires. Collect the ashes and put them in a sealed can at a toxic waste dump.
Before every one piles on, go back and look at the OP's question.
My answer to this question is, ....POSSIBLY...
Look at it in general terms, don't get wrapped up in the details of how much of what powder, etc.
Just for example, lets say your bullet is moving at 2500fps out of a 24" barrel, and you want to duplicate that from a 16" barrel. Can you do that? Possibly. Will it be safe?? POSSIBLY.
However, its unlikely to be able to be done with existing equipment, and simply cannot BE done with identical pressures.
Look at it this way, you want to match speed with an acceleration path only 2/3 as long. (16 vs 24"). The only way to do that is to accelerate the bullet faster in the shorter tube. Doing that requires more force (pressure), in order to compensate for the shorter duration of the acceleration.
"Faster" burning powders MAY be able to do this, depending on specifics of the situation and the factors involved, but there is a limit to that ability, and that may fall well short of your desired goal, which is matching the speed at safe working pressure.
One analogy I like is the safe door. Consider that the bullet. Now, SLAP the safe door. IT moves very little. PUSH that same door, and it moves, and keeps moving as its pushed. That is "fast vs. slow" burning powder's effect.
This is an illustration of principle. Nothing else.
There are so many factors involved getting 24" barrel speed from a 16" barrel that a simple yes or no answer isn't going to be correct, depending on all those other factors.
Just to keep it in round numbers easy to comprehend, consider, if it takes X pressure to accelerate the bullet to speed in a 24" then to get that same speed from a barrel only 2/3 as long, you would need to increase the pressure by 1/3, according to straight linear math.
But gunpowder pressure isn't always a straight linear thing. SO, I say possibly you can do it. But its no where near as simple as just using a faster burning powder.
My answer to this question is, ....POSSIBLY...
Look at it in general terms, don't get wrapped up in the details of how much of what powder, etc.
Just for example, lets say your bullet is moving at 2500fps out of a 24" barrel, and you want to duplicate that from a 16" barrel. Can you do that? Possibly. Will it be safe?? POSSIBLY.
However, its unlikely to be able to be done with existing equipment, and simply cannot BE done with identical pressures.
Look at it this way, you want to match speed with an acceleration path only 2/3 as long. (16 vs 24"). The only way to do that is to accelerate the bullet faster in the shorter tube. Doing that requires more force (pressure), in order to compensate for the shorter duration of the acceleration.
"Faster" burning powders MAY be able to do this, depending on specifics of the situation and the factors involved, but there is a limit to that ability, and that may fall well short of your desired goal, which is matching the speed at safe working pressure.
One analogy I like is the safe door. Consider that the bullet. Now, SLAP the safe door. IT moves very little. PUSH that same door, and it moves, and keeps moving as its pushed. That is "fast vs. slow" burning powder's effect.
This is an illustration of principle. Nothing else.
There are so many factors involved getting 24" barrel speed from a 16" barrel that a simple yes or no answer isn't going to be correct, depending on all those other factors.
Just to keep it in round numbers easy to comprehend, consider, if it takes X pressure to accelerate the bullet to speed in a 24" then to get that same speed from a barrel only 2/3 as long, you would need to increase the pressure by 1/3, according to straight linear math.
But gunpowder pressure isn't always a straight linear thing. SO, I say possibly you can do it. But its no where near as simple as just using a faster burning powder.
Marco Califo
New member
44 AMP, that quote was from
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