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Family of AR-15 Inventor Eugene Stoner: He Didn't Intend It for Civilians
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It is entirely possible that the money Stoner received, and possibly left to family, was made exactly as described. The family may not be making a nickel on current sales of AR style weapons. The select fire feature available on US military rifles made it a different weapon than what is available to us. All of that to say, what they think or say means nothing to the conversation regarding semiautomatic weapons and right to have them in my opinion.
A pause for the COZ
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I bet he would have had he lived in AZ along the drug run corridor.
kilimanjaro
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I'd be very surprised if the inventor of a full-auto military rifle intended it for civilian sales, this is not even a credible story.
Whatever his intentions or desires may have been, they certainly are moot, and have been for decades.
Whatever his intentions or desires may have been, they certainly are moot, and have been for decades.
carguychris
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When the laser was invented in 1957, I'm certain its founders didn't foresee that its primary use would be to play music and movies using reflective disks.
Military studies up through ~1920 stated with sincerity that the primary use for airplanes in warfare would always be reconnaissance because no airplane would ever be able to carry enough ordinance far enough to be a useful strike weapon against ground or particularly naval targets.
Inventions have a habit of moving far beyond the intentions of their inventors.
"Familes of 1960s UCLA Internet Inventors: They Didn't Intend It for X-Rated Movies"
Sounds kinda quaint and absurd now, doesn't it?
Military studies up through ~1920 stated with sincerity that the primary use for airplanes in warfare would always be reconnaissance because no airplane would ever be able to carry enough ordinance far enough to be a useful strike weapon against ground or particularly naval targets.
Inventions have a habit of moving far beyond the intentions of their inventors.
"Familes of 1960s UCLA Internet Inventors: They Didn't Intend It for X-Rated Movies"
Sounds kinda quaint and absurd now, doesn't it?
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Sorry, but you lost your credibility right there!
And, frankly other than as more emotion fueled drivel pumped out by NBC (and others) just what relevance do you think the THOUGHTS of his children and grandchildren MATTER???
Somehow, I have a sneaking suspicion that if Stoner had really had a strong opposition to civilian sales, he might had said so in the 40+ YEARS between the offering of his rifle for civilian sales and his death.
He did cash his royalty checks, did he not???
So, he didn't get a penny from Colt's civilian sales??? Which began in the 1960s??
Yes, sales of the AR-15, which had been a moderate seller, took off, AFTER Congress passed the AWB and tried to BAN them in 94. Forbidden fruit is very popular.
Really, the Orlando shooter got his ammo from a guy who died in 97??
Stoner didn't design the .223. The US ARMY did. Stoner's original design was in .222 Remington (A non-military sporting round - which does beg the question, IF he really designed it as a military ONLY arm, why did he chamber it in a non-military caliber???)
The military, not really wanting the AR, but being forced to accept it from the MacNamara Defense Dept, chose an ammo specification that the .222 Rem could not meet (in hopes of getting the whole idea quashed, perhaps??). The one commercially available round that could meet the desired specs was the .222 Remington Magnum, but too bad, it was a little bit too long to fit in an AR-15.
End result, they came up with the 5.56mm (.223 Rem) which could meet the specs demanded and fit in the AR-15.
I'm sure Stoner has some input on modifying his design for the .223, but he didn't design the round.
The article is full of inaccurate statements, partial truths, supposition and baseless opinion, done to try and convince us that the AR was meant to be a "weapon of war" and not for "civilians".
Even if this WERE true,
Guess what CITIZENS, we have the right to "weapons of war" read the Founding Fathers...
We've had weapons of war the entire time lol.
I've had a no4 enfield, most assuredly a weapon of war.
I've owned mosin nagants, one from 1938, weapon of war.
I have a FAL, indeed a weapon of war... Demilitarized for civilian use.
A genuine GI issued bayonets... Weapon of war, now a knife.
Entrenching tool.
Mini14, civilian rifle.
AR15 #1-4. All civilian
Beretta 92fs, civilian except it's nearly the same as the m9... They may have me over the barrel on this one
Pump action mossy 12ga... Not a weapon of war
Double barrel 12ga, the VP's favorite.
Revolver, nope.
And so on
I've had a no4 enfield, most assuredly a weapon of war.
I've owned mosin nagants, one from 1938, weapon of war.
I have a FAL, indeed a weapon of war... Demilitarized for civilian use.
A genuine GI issued bayonets... Weapon of war, now a knife.
Entrenching tool.
Mini14, civilian rifle.
AR15 #1-4. All civilian
Beretta 92fs, civilian except it's nearly the same as the m9... They may have me over the barrel on this one
Pump action mossy 12ga... Not a weapon of war
Double barrel 12ga, the VP's favorite.
Revolver, nope.
And so on
Double Naught Spy
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People claim "design intent" as if it was some sort of law of nature. What the designer may have intended isn't relevant to anything.
Once you sell something, you don't get to say what happens to it unless you had a contract and when Stoner and Armalite sold the rights to Colt in 1959, they did not do that.
Once you sell something, you don't get to say what happens to it unless you had a contract and when Stoner and Armalite sold the rights to Colt in 1959, they did not do that.
bamaranger
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Last of the Mohicans
There is a bit of dialog in the film "The Last of the Mohicans" where a certain character states ..."Do not try to understand them, ....and do not try to make them understand you"......
Pretty good scene, and I've about totally adopted the mindset.
For what its worth, I did read the book first.....in jr. high I think, the first time.
There is a bit of dialog in the film "The Last of the Mohicans" where a certain character states ..."Do not try to understand them, ....and do not try to make them understand you"......
Pretty good scene, and I've about totally adopted the mindset.
For what its worth, I did read the book first.....in jr. high I think, the first time.
I Do Not Believe They KNEW his Intent - As If It Even Matters
Not everyone in a man's family necessarily care about his technical endeavors. And most men tend to be more engrossed in facts and technical details. They go by that, not "how they feel".
Truth is I think some devious manipulative , no truth in mind" with a personal agenda may have asked, " did Mr. Stoner originally plan civilian sales of his rifle?". (which of course would mean FA !). Stoner family (gee, think they ALL think alike, and did ask Eugene?) reply probably "I don't know". Reporters byline "Stoner family says he never intended civilian sales".
Libtards SOP.
Anyone know if Katie Couric involved in this possible concoction. Funny how fork-tongued "reporters and talk show hosts" can so smoothly eliminate honesty from our language.
Not everyone in a man's family necessarily care about his technical endeavors. And most men tend to be more engrossed in facts and technical details. They go by that, not "how they feel".
Truth is I think some devious manipulative , no truth in mind" with a personal agenda may have asked, " did Mr. Stoner originally plan civilian sales of his rifle?". (which of course would mean FA !). Stoner family (gee, think they ALL think alike, and did ask Eugene?) reply probably "I don't know". Reporters byline "Stoner family says he never intended civilian sales".
Libtards SOP.
Anyone know if Katie Couric involved in this possible concoction. Funny how fork-tongued "reporters and talk show hosts" can so smoothly eliminate honesty from our language.
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Pond James Pond
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No one would invent a gun specifically for nefarious acts such as mass-shootings, so in a sense their comments are a given and most people would feel revulsion at what has been done with these and other weapons in such shootings.
However, if they speak for the late Mr Stoner, perhaps they could tell us if he would have valued the life of a soldier using an AR in a firefight more than a civilian using an AR to protect home and hearth from 3 armed intruders.
One's life is worth saving whether the front line is on the battlefield or in one's living room.
Would Mr Stoner have disagreed with that? I doubt his family can say with certainty, but I bet they can guess.
carguychris
New member
Now that PJP has brought it up...
Rewind to the years prior to the major Vietnam War push in 1966. I've read reports and articles from the time period, and the U.S. military was generally rather dismissive of the AK-47, regarding it fundamentally as an inaccurate bullet hose designed with an overemphasis on easy and inexpensive mass production in low-tech Soviet factories. There was a strong tendency towards self-congratulatory solace in the vast technical superiority of the M14. Some of this may have been propaganda, but given U.S. military culture at the time, I think most in the military—particularly the Army and USMC leadership—earnestly believed it.
As one might assume, this was before Vietnam gave American observers a firsthand look at the AK's reliability advantages under harsh field conditions.
The AR-15/M16 was intended to replace the M14. Yes, it resurrected the concept of an intermediate cartridge in the West, but I think this had far more to do with the technical merits of the concept than a perceived need to one-up the USSR. The fact that the Armalite may have been better than the AK-47 was probably regarded as a given considering that the AK was already seen as being distinctly inferior to the M14. The M16 would be far superior simply by default!
Also, regarding the McNamara angle, let's not forget who was the AR-15's first big proponent in the military—USAF general and SAC commander Curtis LeMay. He and McNamara had worked together closely in late WWII at introducing the concept of using statistics and science to improve the efficiency of warfare. It's no surprise that McNamara would embrace LeMay's support of the AR-15 as a more efficient alternative to the traditionalist M14.
I find this claim to be factually and historically suspect.
Rewind to the years prior to the major Vietnam War push in 1966. I've read reports and articles from the time period, and the U.S. military was generally rather dismissive of the AK-47, regarding it fundamentally as an inaccurate bullet hose designed with an overemphasis on easy and inexpensive mass production in low-tech Soviet factories. There was a strong tendency towards self-congratulatory solace in the vast technical superiority of the M14. Some of this may have been propaganda, but given U.S. military culture at the time, I think most in the military—particularly the Army and USMC leadership—earnestly believed it.
As one might assume, this was before Vietnam gave American observers a firsthand look at the AK's reliability advantages under harsh field conditions.
The AR-15/M16 was intended to replace the M14. Yes, it resurrected the concept of an intermediate cartridge in the West, but I think this had far more to do with the technical merits of the concept than a perceived need to one-up the USSR. The fact that the Armalite may have been better than the AK-47 was probably regarded as a given considering that the AK was already seen as being distinctly inferior to the M14. The M16 would be far superior simply by default!
Also, regarding the McNamara angle, let's not forget who was the AR-15's first big proponent in the military—USAF general and SAC commander Curtis LeMay. He and McNamara had worked together closely in late WWII at introducing the concept of using statistics and science to improve the efficiency of warfare. It's no surprise that McNamara would embrace LeMay's support of the AR-15 as a more efficient alternative to the traditionalist M14.
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