extractor no ejecting

If we all followed the instruction manuals to the T, many would not be carrying a loaded chamber. Folks, these are written by the company's lawyers.

But back to the original topic:
Rack the slide back did not see a shell in barrell. mag was removed ,let loose of slide pulled trigger bang.is this common
Click to expand...

So this proves my point. The OP did remove the mag first, yet assumed that the ejector would remove any chambered round. Removing the mag first did not help in this case. It was his neglect in physically checking the chamber and perhap visually that caused the ND. He was relying on the cycling action to do it.

He did not state that he dropped the mag and locked the slide back to check.
If he had locked back the slide first, and then dropped the mag, he would have more time to actually visually and physically check the chamber, and he would have had to perform two more actions of reinserting a magazine and dropping the slide for a ND to happen.

Also, why did he pull the trigger after removing the mag. Was he taking down his firearm, relieving the stress on the striker or hammer (as stated as a poor practice in my earlier posts) or getting ready to dry fire, or pressing the trigger to confirm an unloaded firearm?
 
Or you could read the owner's manual for the firearm in question. That's a good idea in the general case, not just to acquire this specific information.
Click to expand...

I agree, but it only works if you have the owner's manual. I've bought a lot of different handguns over the years, nearly all of them used. Some came with the manuals, most did not. Most guns are simple enough that most people figure them out without the manual, and once they have done that, getting a manual (especially in pre-internet days) dropped to a very low or zero priority.

Sure, we should get the manuals, but how many of us actually do???

Out of all the pistols I've had that didn't have manuals, there was only one that I bought a reproduction manual for, and that was a C96 Mauser. And, I didn't buy it because I needed the instructions in it, I already had operating and field stripping instructions in a couple of books. I bought to go with the gun, as I had the holster, and cleaning rods too, and was looking to recreate the accessory set the gun originally came with.

As far as dropping the mag and racking the slide goes, I think I may be using the term a little differently than others. When checking the gun, (with the mag out) I "rack" the slide by pulling it all the way back, and holding it there, while I look to see if the action is clear. I do not just pull the slide back, and let it go, assuming that if there is a round chambered, it will be ejected.

Then I lock the slide open using the lever/button, IF the design of the gun allows for it. Some do not.

You cannot lock the toggle of a Luger open, WITHOUT having an empty magazine in the gun.

I have a Mauser HSc that also will not lock open without an empty mag in the gun. Mine will also shut if you remove the magazine. (Any HSc owners out there? Is this the correct operation, or is my gun not working 100% correctly?? I don't know. It is fully functional, I just don't know if it's supposed to work like that, different from other guns I own. I suppose I might get a manual and see what it says, but I'm too lazy..:rolleyes:)
 
So this proves my point.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. It just goes to show that no matter what procedure is followed, there is potential for human error. There is no procedure that can prevent human error--but there are some procedures which can reduce the chances of certain types of errors from having a negative effect.

You believe that leaving the mag in the gun is safer during the chamber check even though it opens up the possibility of verifying that the chamber is empty and then accidentally reloading it after the check. It appears that every manufacturer of applicable firearms we can find so far disagrees with you.

But the fact that one person managed to botch a particular loading procedure on a single occasion isn't proof that it's a bad procedure any more than the fact that a person manages to make a bad procedure work proves that it's a good procedure.

If we are going to take this approach, then if anyone could find an example where a person botched your procedure you would have to admit it is a bad procedure.

And here's just such an example:

https://www.fieldandstream.com/answ...rearm-if-so-admitting-honest-mistake-forum-an

I did not drop the magazine before beginning my clearing procedure. This shouldn’t have been a problem, seeing as the next step is to pull back the charging handle and physically and visually inspect the chamber. I charged the gun but did not hold the bolt to the rear for very long to check. I canted the rifle so I could see it but did not actually process what I saw. I then released the charging handle and almost immediately pressed the trigger to drop the hammer, which I do before separating the gun.​

In fact, in the list of ND stories in that link, there was actually another example:

I racked the slide before dropping the magazine, ejecting the round, but unknowingly chambering another. After dropping the magazine, I released the safety, then pulled the trigger to drop the hammer.​
I agree, but it only works if you have the owner's manual.
Click to expand...
Owner's manuals are generally available free of charge from the manufacturer for guns of reasonably recent production guns or even for older guns if the manufacturer is still in business.

Here's a great resource for about 300 owner's manuals that may not still be available from the manufacturer for one reason or another.

http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/

Here is a manual for the Mauser HSC. It is, unfortunately, in German, but there are online translation tools that should help you make sense of it.
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Mauser-HSc-Manual.pdf

Here is the unloading procedure from the manual. Apologies for the translation, it's not my specialty.

If the shooting is finished and there are still cartridges in the barrel or
magazine; to make the gun is secure, take out the magazine and
forcefully retract the slide. The cartridge will be removed
pulled out and ejected.​
 
You believe that leaving the mag in the gun is safer during the chamber check even though it opens up the possibility of verifying that the chamber is empty and then accidentally reloading it after the check. It appears that every manufacturer of applicable firearms we can find so far disagrees with you.
Click to expand...

No, I never stated that. I said lock the slide back and take the magazine out for a better check. I never said leave the magazine in.
I stated that with one motion, by racking the slide you can see instantly what is happening, but I also stated that the magazine should be removed.

You are misinterpreting my statements in an effort to try and prove your point.

Please try and keep the topic to the OP's original statement. He took the magazine out and assumed that the gun was safe by cycling the action and no round was ejected. That backs up my claim that removing the magazine first gives people a false sense of security.
 
You are misinterpreting my statements in an effort to try and prove your point.
Click to expand...
First of all, how is it MY point? Every owner's manual we have found so far recommends the procedure. It's not like I dreamed it up myself.

Second, if you've been involved in a discussion that was NOT about whether to remove the magazine FIRST or operate the slide FIRST during the unloading process, then maybe you posted this in the wrong thread.
I never said leave the magazine in.
Click to expand...
We all agree that the magazine must come out at some point--that has never been the issue. The question is which of two steps (Remove mag, Operate slide) should come first.

Unless you're trying to say that the magazine should be dropped simultaneous to operating the slide, then you are saying that the magazine should be left in while the slide is operated to eject the round/check the chamber.
 
While I think we’re going a bit overboard here, I will agree with John that the OP being negligent doesn’t somehow prove that removing the magazine first sets people up for a ND or gives them a false sense of security. At some point the magazine has to be removed and the chamber checked. If someone forgets one of those steps the ground is laid for a ND.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
While pointing the gun in a safe direction with your finger off the trigger, Drop the Magazine first, then rack the slide. It is how I was taught and as an NRA certified basic pistol instructor it is what I am required to teach students in an official NRA basic pistol course.

As far as bullseye competition goes, they do say "slides back magazines out make the line safe." At the end of a string the slide on a 1911 .45 and most competition .22lr pistols will already be back in the locked position and the magazine will be empty.

Are Bullseye competitors the safest folks for gun handling? I would say it varies, familiarity breeds contempt, and there are many holes in the baffle in front of the 25 yard position at my NRA Bullseye participating club as many competitors like to put their finger on the trigger before the gun is brought down on target.

Teaching new shooters with a loaded magazine and chamber the proper procedure for safety is to drop the magazine first, this avoids any possibility that they might eject a round and then chamber another, leaving the gun loaded after they drop the magazine. :)
 
Last edited:
Whether you lock the slide back first and then remove the magazine, or remove the magazine first and then lock back the slide, at that point, you are exactly the same.
It's a silly debate. I don't care how you do it, but it seem you care greatly how I do it.

But if we are to stay on topic according to the OP's thread, I believe he is asking about why his extrator failed to eject the round. That was initial question. So the discussion was not about whether to drop the magazine first or lock the slide back first. The main point to the OP's original question was that he relied on the extractor to clear the chamber instead of examining it visually and PHYSICALLY.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top