Extra Magazine....Where do you carry and How?
- Thread starter Duxman
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leadcounsel
Moderator
Batman, where do you keep your whistle on your utility belt?
Just spoke with an ex-Army E4 (aka a trained solider with years of experience working his way up from an E1). We all know that enlistees carry several magazines because it's the nature of their job. They don't carry extra ammo because they fear their guns will all jam. Admittedly civilian carry is dramatically different, but some fundamentals are the same. This is a multiple choice question so let's see how well you do: In a live fire exercise or in combat, if your weapon fails to feed, fails to cycle, fails to eject (basically a jam as we know it), the proper action is to:
A) clear the round using the charging handle or slide and resume firing; or
B) drop the full magazine and load another despite still having the obstacle of a jammed round in the chamber that still hasn't been addressed; or
C) pull out a bootknife, one of two that you regularly carry; or
D) blow on your whistle
I'll give you a hint, it isn't B, C, or D (despite all of those options being very very attractive to you).
I don't agree with what your "teachers" have to say about OC. It's only going to escalate the situation and while you've hand is holding a can of OC, your opponent has opted for his .357 in self defense. OC vs. .357, I'll take the .357 on my side.
Last I knew, sheep did what their instructors told them without questioning the logic.... Think "outside" the box.....
Just spoke with an ex-Army E4 (aka a trained solider with years of experience working his way up from an E1). We all know that enlistees carry several magazines because it's the nature of their job. They don't carry extra ammo because they fear their guns will all jam. Admittedly civilian carry is dramatically different, but some fundamentals are the same. This is a multiple choice question so let's see how well you do: In a live fire exercise or in combat, if your weapon fails to feed, fails to cycle, fails to eject (basically a jam as we know it), the proper action is to:
A) clear the round using the charging handle or slide and resume firing; or
B) drop the full magazine and load another despite still having the obstacle of a jammed round in the chamber that still hasn't been addressed; or
C) pull out a bootknife, one of two that you regularly carry; or
D) blow on your whistle
I'll give you a hint, it isn't B, C, or D (despite all of those options being very very attractive to you).
I don't agree with what your "teachers" have to say about OC. It's only going to escalate the situation and while you've hand is holding a can of OC, your opponent has opted for his .357 in self defense. OC vs. .357, I'll take the .357 on my side.
Last I knew, sheep did what their instructors told them without questioning the logic.... Think "outside" the box.....
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What exactly is a "real scenario"? Should I have a buddy punch me while I'm clearing a jam so my mag falls in the mud or in a gutter. That's going to add a lot of time.
That may be a reason not to carry a spare.
That's not a reason not to carry a spare.
Neither is refusing to carry a spare out of fear of prosecution.
MW:
As a matter of fact, Massad Ayoob, who usually leans toward the most conservative side of caution in avoiding prosecution, has given a case in his column of a man with a spare gun who beat a charge that was based on forethought of malice.
leadcounsel
Moderator
Cite to the article? I have not read it.
If that was the only charge against the guy, then can I presume one thing?
Was the spare mag necessary in his self-defense situation? If not it illustrates exactly my point. If that's all the DA had on the shooter, and the crux of the DA's case was malice aforethought, then the shooter placed himself at serious risk of a prison term. For what purpose? Does it say how much the shooter had to spend on his defense? Whether he lost his job?
Murder rap defenses can easily start at $25,000 and go into the 6 figures. Have you got that kinda cash layin' around?
I certainly wouldn't want some DA thinkin' that because I had an extra mag I had malice aforethought beyond a self defense situation, even where I otherwise acted within the confines of the law (like this guy, probably).
If that was the only charge against the guy, then can I presume one thing?
Was the spare mag necessary in his self-defense situation? If not it illustrates exactly my point. If that's all the DA had on the shooter, and the crux of the DA's case was malice aforethought, then the shooter placed himself at serious risk of a prison term. For what purpose? Does it say how much the shooter had to spend on his defense? Whether he lost his job?
Murder rap defenses can easily start at $25,000 and go into the 6 figures. Have you got that kinda cash layin' around?
I certainly wouldn't want some DA thinkin' that because I had an extra mag I had malice aforethought beyond a self defense situation, even where I otherwise acted within the confines of the law (like this guy, probably).
Oooooo. I'd have to go through a whole stack of magazines for that one. It was in his column in Guns magazine in maybe '03 or '04?
IIRC it was in Florida. He wasn't fired; he was in business for himself. IIRC, he had two guns in his truck and took one into his business. Also, IIRC, the grand jury kicked it out, before it went to trial.
For the purpose of not getting killed. It could have as easily happened to me. I carry a gun on me, and normally keep another in my van. I spend as much time in the van as out of it and it's difficult to get to my concealed gun with a seatbelt on. Should I give up one gun and take my chances with the bad guy or keep it and take my chances with the court?
If you're D.A. thinks like that, you either need to move to another jurisdiction,don't carry a gun, or just stick it out when the going gets tough. Because he's going to come up with some dirty lawyer trick no matter how clean you try to play it. IMHO.
leadcounsel
Moderator
Oh, I"m sorry, it was *JUST* a grand jury empaneling for a homicide indictment charge. No biggie then.... Shooter probably didn't even bother with counsel.... 
Where did the heck I say anything like that?
Either you misunderstood me or you're putting up straw men.My point is: If you have a D.A. that would prosecute you for having a spare mag, he's going to prosecute you for something else anyway.
Now if you want my opinion on the money thing, all you have to do is ask for it. Maybe it was six figures. Maybe it was $25,000. Maybe it was $50,000. Maybe the D.A. isn't the only slimy lawyer in town. Good guy probably got sued, too.
Is your life and liberty worth $25,000 or $50,000? Or are you better off dead? If your life isn't worth the money, then don't defend yourself at all.
leadcounsel
Moderator
W, do you know how Grand Juries generally work (they do vary from state to state, but the concept is the same generally)?
If not, I'll tell you if you ask nicely.... but you probably won't believe me anyway :barf:
Silly to ask whether I think my life is worth X number of $. The answer is yes. Why can't you hear what I'm saying about this whole controvesy...?
I'd rather NOT be attacked; I'd rather NOT shoot someone; I'd rather NOT be shot at; I'd rather NOT have to defend my actions to a Grand Jury mainly on the grounds of malice aforethought (for an otherwise clean self defense shooting) because I was carrying more bullets than were shot in the OK Corral when the *average* self defense gunfight is 3 shots. I'd rather NOT lose my job, come under fire from the State Bar Assoc., and mortgage my house to retain a lawyer to steer me through a process because the DA thinks that my carrying an extra mag is malice aforethought. Can it happen? Evidently it did happen in FL. Sure, the grand jury's findings didn't warrent a trial, but at WHAT financial, emotional, and career costs? Sounds like he could have avoided the whole mess if he just didn't carry the spare mag.
IMO carrying an extra mag is 1) pointless b/c you aren't ever gonna need it (and if you felt you did... you know my position about that); 2) adds extra weight and concealment issues; 3) is one more thing you've got to be responsible for; 4) takes up space that would work better for something else; 5) could be grounds for a left wing DA with an agenda to put YOU on the chopping block to help make HIS career milestone. Did I forget anything...?
Also, it's not realistic to keep an eye on every DA and move as often as they are replaced. Besides, a DA may be pressured by many forces beyond his own good judgment and try a case he disagrees with; it happens daily.
If not, I'll tell you if you ask nicely.... but you probably won't believe me anyway :barf:
Silly to ask whether I think my life is worth X number of $. The answer is yes. Why can't you hear what I'm saying about this whole controvesy...?
I'd rather NOT be attacked; I'd rather NOT shoot someone; I'd rather NOT be shot at; I'd rather NOT have to defend my actions to a Grand Jury mainly on the grounds of malice aforethought (for an otherwise clean self defense shooting) because I was carrying more bullets than were shot in the OK Corral when the *average* self defense gunfight is 3 shots. I'd rather NOT lose my job, come under fire from the State Bar Assoc., and mortgage my house to retain a lawyer to steer me through a process because the DA thinks that my carrying an extra mag is malice aforethought. Can it happen? Evidently it did happen in FL. Sure, the grand jury's findings didn't warrent a trial, but at WHAT financial, emotional, and career costs? Sounds like he could have avoided the whole mess if he just didn't carry the spare mag.
IMO carrying an extra mag is 1) pointless b/c you aren't ever gonna need it (and if you felt you did... you know my position about that); 2) adds extra weight and concealment issues; 3) is one more thing you've got to be responsible for; 4) takes up space that would work better for something else; 5) could be grounds for a left wing DA with an agenda to put YOU on the chopping block to help make HIS career milestone. Did I forget anything...?
Also, it's not realistic to keep an eye on every DA and move as often as they are replaced. Besides, a DA may be pressured by many forces beyond his own good judgment and try a case he disagrees with; it happens daily.
Edward429451
Moderator
I'm sure leadcounsel means well even if he's quite opinionated about it. Working in that defacto cesspool can probably affect your thinking after awhile.
I think that if one is so worried abought what the DA might do, then maybe it'd be best to not carry at all. Myself, I'll keep my extra ammo thanks.
I liked thar mag up the sleeve idea. Where'd you see that at? Got a link?
I think that if one is so worried abought what the DA might do, then maybe it'd be best to not carry at all. Myself, I'll keep my extra ammo thanks.
I liked thar mag up the sleeve idea. Where'd you see that at? Got a link?
It depends
If I'm wearing a vest (not ballistic, just full of pockets, for cover) I always put a spare mag in the lower right pocket of the vest. This serves a two-fold purpose. First, I have a spare magazine, in case of malfunction or needing an extra fifteen rounds of ammo. Second, and more importantly, it provides a weight that keeps that side of the vest less susceptible to wind, and allows me to flip it open easily for my drawstroke.
If I'm not wearing my vest, it goes in my left front pocket with my cellphone.
I can hear you now: with his cellphone?
Well, it works very well. Since the magazine is longer than the cellphone, it's the first thing I hit when I stick my hand in that pocket. Furthermore, the cellphone wedges it in against the back of the pocket, preventing it from shifting around and not being in the precise location I want it to be.
It should be noted, however, that if I'm not wearing the vest, I often don't carry a spare magazine. It's probably not the safest move, but I already carry (literally) five or six pounds worth of crap in my pants. Adding in that extra half a pound of explosives and lead is just that much more uncomfortable.
If I'm wearing a vest (not ballistic, just full of pockets, for cover) I always put a spare mag in the lower right pocket of the vest. This serves a two-fold purpose. First, I have a spare magazine, in case of malfunction or needing an extra fifteen rounds of ammo. Second, and more importantly, it provides a weight that keeps that side of the vest less susceptible to wind, and allows me to flip it open easily for my drawstroke.
If I'm not wearing my vest, it goes in my left front pocket with my cellphone.
I can hear you now: with his cellphone?
Well, it works very well. Since the magazine is longer than the cellphone, it's the first thing I hit when I stick my hand in that pocket. Furthermore, the cellphone wedges it in against the back of the pocket, preventing it from shifting around and not being in the precise location I want it to be.
It should be noted, however, that if I'm not wearing the vest, I often don't carry a spare magazine. It's probably not the safest move, but I already carry (literally) five or six pounds worth of crap in my pants. Adding in that extra half a pound of explosives and lead is just that much more uncomfortable.
leadcounsel
Moderator
Link to wrist mag pouch:
http://www.gamepod.com/store_020.htm
I've also seen this someplace else but I cannot locate it right now.
http://www.gamepod.com/store_020.htm
I've also seen this someplace else but I cannot locate it right now.
Forget those mag carriers with the plastic retainer clip, by the time you undo the plastic clip to reach for your extra magazine - the BG has probably shot / stabbed you to pieces or both.
Try retention holders like:
https://secure.fobusholster.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=28
For about 15 bucks they are a bargain, and with practice, you can reload in under 3 seconds. Plus they are paddle mounted - easy to remove and put back on without taking off your belt.
I have found - these are most convenient way to carry extra mags - unless you prefer pocket carry.
Try retention holders like:
https://secure.fobusholster.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=28
For about 15 bucks they are a bargain, and with practice, you can reload in under 3 seconds. Plus they are paddle mounted - easy to remove and put back on without taking off your belt.
I have found - these are most convenient way to carry extra mags - unless you prefer pocket carry.
GUNS Magazine (November 2005) quote:
"Maximize the distance to the threat...Minimize yourself as a target. Carry a gun, and two would be better. Carry spare ammunition, the more the better. Carry a flashlight, and two would be better. If you think there is going to be a fight...leave!"
Clint Smith
"Maximize the distance to the threat...Minimize yourself as a target. Carry a gun, and two would be better. Carry spare ammunition, the more the better. Carry a flashlight, and two would be better. If you think there is going to be a fight...leave!"
Clint Smith
tanksoldier
New member
Back up gun. Knife.
<<Either way, wherever the holster and spare are, I see a problem. The task of loading a spare mag into the gun is a two-handed operation, isn't it? What happens if the BG has your other hand locked in some sort of struggle, like say you're keeping him from choking you with your weak hand while your strong hand is grabbing your gun? You empty a mag into him, but he's doped up on something, and still attacking? How do you get that other mag, and load it into your gun, all one-handed? Any thoughts on this anyone?>>
<<Either way, wherever the holster and spare are, I see a problem. The task of loading a spare mag into the gun is a two-handed operation, isn't it? What happens if the BG has your other hand locked in some sort of struggle, like say you're keeping him from choking you with your weak hand while your strong hand is grabbing your gun? You empty a mag into him, but he's doped up on something, and still attacking? How do you get that other mag, and load it into your gun, all one-handed? Any thoughts on this anyone?>>
tanksoldier
New member
While I disagree with alot of what leadcounsel says, he is right that training and practice is actually far more important than gear, as is physical fitness and a warrior mindset. To my mind a "mallnija" is the guy who straps on his latest wunderpistol and hicap mags, but doesn't practice tactical shooting regularly, doesn't maintain situational awareness, gets out of breath running up 2 flights of stairs and hasn't trained or equipped himself for alternatives to his firearm.
<<Your most likely right ninj....er uhm, leadcounsel. I hear there are some links to some very useful information on fighting styles and extensive training techniques over at " MallNinja.com " >>
<<Your most likely right ninj....er uhm, leadcounsel. I hear there are some links to some very useful information on fighting styles and extensive training techniques over at " MallNinja.com " >>
Jack Malloy
New member
Let me repeat this for you guys who think its 1873 and your pistol is a henry rifle.
The main reason to carry a spare mag whether you are a civillian, a green beret or a swat cop is this — 90 PERCENT OF ALL JAMS ARE MAGAZINE RELATED.
In other words, when you need it most your high capacity bullet hose can become a single shot if you only have one mag.
Firepower and extra ammo has nothing to do with it. They are nice, but not so nice as having a reserve in the case that your worne out old feedlips give up halfway through the first shot.
Do you really want to rip a damaged mag out of the gun, pull out the bullets and manually feed them into the chamber when a bad guy is popping off .380 rounds in your general direction?
Its that simple and ignore that fact at your own risk.
Personaly I think its stupid to pack around a gun and a cell phone and no spare mag for a semi auto. You'd be better off leaving the cell phone at home and jamming a spare mag in your pocket.
Does your survival really depend on somebody calling you when you are in a darkened movie theater or on the toilet?
Wear a good cover garment and most people will never know you are carrying, let alone carrying a spare mag. Dump your cell phone and carry your spare mag in the phone holder if you have to. Nobody will notice.
>>I'll also reiterate that I don't carry a spare mag b/c I see it as useless in a civilian urban situation and as such a waste of time and effort and it's just one more thing I've gotta carry and be responsible for and draw attention to me as a CCW, which is what I DON"T want.<<
The main reason to carry a spare mag whether you are a civillian, a green beret or a swat cop is this — 90 PERCENT OF ALL JAMS ARE MAGAZINE RELATED.
In other words, when you need it most your high capacity bullet hose can become a single shot if you only have one mag.
Firepower and extra ammo has nothing to do with it. They are nice, but not so nice as having a reserve in the case that your worne out old feedlips give up halfway through the first shot.
Do you really want to rip a damaged mag out of the gun, pull out the bullets and manually feed them into the chamber when a bad guy is popping off .380 rounds in your general direction?
Its that simple and ignore that fact at your own risk.
Personaly I think its stupid to pack around a gun and a cell phone and no spare mag for a semi auto. You'd be better off leaving the cell phone at home and jamming a spare mag in your pocket.
Does your survival really depend on somebody calling you when you are in a darkened movie theater or on the toilet?
Wear a good cover garment and most people will never know you are carrying, let alone carrying a spare mag. Dump your cell phone and carry your spare mag in the phone holder if you have to. Nobody will notice.
>>I'll also reiterate that I don't carry a spare mag b/c I see it as useless in a civilian urban situation and as such a waste of time and effort and it's just one more thing I've gotta carry and be responsible for and draw attention to me as a CCW, which is what I DON"T want.<<