Excellent Russia-Georgia Analysis from George Friedman

Well Chui, it is clear you read; but you apparently don't grasp that the BTC as a pipeline is already built and it ends in Ceyhan, Turkey (the "C" in the BTC). Further, you seem to believe that conspiracists are not bound by the rules of economics and would rather start wars with Lebanon and Syria in order to bring oil to Israel that can already be shipped across the ocean with relative ease (and in a war would be harder to interdict than a fixed pipeline).

Personally, I don't find your "support", which appears to consist of the sentence "Israel’s role in the region; its interest in the BTC pipeline; its negotiations with Georgia, Turkey, Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan to have it reach its Ashkelon oil terminal and Red Sea Eilat port" all that compelling and it makes me skeptical of the rest of your reasoning as well.
 
So, Germany, which previously had blocked Georgia's application for NATO membership says now it should be fast-tracked. The Ukraine is asking for missile defense assets to be placed on its territory. The signs of the "genocide" in South Ossetia that Russia claimed are proving difficult to find, while the South Ossetian rebels are refusing to allow Georgian South Ossetian refugees return to their homes. Russia's neighbors do not seem as sanguine about Russia's good intentions or right to intimidate them as some here are. This whole matter has been simple Soviet-style Russian thuggery. At least the Europeans are starting to wake up, I hope they realize that it's time to provide for their common defense.
 
I'm curious.

Exactly how does one keep a plan for world domination going when we change Presidents every 4 to 8 years and have rolling changeovers in Congress every two years?

And all this globalization stuff will last only so long as America maintains it. If we tire of the game, of the responsiblity, stop keeping the sea lanes open for commerce, all that, the world will probably revert to 1930s era protectionism where strong countries pretty much do whatever they want to their weaker neighbors.
 
If we are dominant right now, it is because we've defeated every single totalitarian, despotic, illiberal ideology that vied to become the dominant force. Does this reflect poorly on us?

Would the Founders be disappointed that we either knocked off or outlasted Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and Imperial Japan?

I don't think so. And I refuse to feel guilty or ashamed because we're the last man standing and the good guys won.

We tried the colony thing once, with the Phillipines. Not really much of a colony or attempt at empire when you get down to it.

We put laws in place preventing Americans from moving in and turning into America's version of British India.

Not even our own history books paint us in a favorable light concerning those years.

Empire is simply not in our national character.

You want genuine, unvarnished, ugly nationalism? You'll have to look elsewhere.
 
You're a bit naive from my perspective, CC. Our foreign policy is *NOT* set by the president. His advisors, almost all of them members of the CFR, decide and advise. His top generals are taught similar ideologies as are the officer corp. The media promulgates it and most unwitting citizens accept it. You think the current President with an IQ of 89 came up with all of this all by himself? You think Bill Clinton came up with his foreign policy all by himself? Perish the thought. I religiously read Foreign Affairs - mouthpiece organ for the CFR and have done so for the better part of 12 years. Long before you read anything in the mainstream media it's been thoroughly discussed and agreed upon to a large extent several years prior...

Then there are the "think tanks" which comprise the "ivory towers" whose ideas go before the CFR and other Roundtable Organizations.

Then if one were to really study the yearly National Security Strategy documents and compare one sees obvious parallels.

Again, I ask that you go study some of the materials alluded to and you just may see things a bit differently.

Surely you jest when you claim that "even our own history books" essentially don't paint us as empire building or that "empire is not in our national character". That's laughable when one takes a sober look at our history...

Bart, you've obviously not taken a good look online. That's okay. P.S. I do know what BTC stands for and I know what countries each leg is in. Thanks, though.

HKuser I don't know where you get your info from. The capital city of South Ossetia was leveled. There isn't much TO go back to. The "rebels" you speak of are Ossetians. The civilians were forced out. It's true that the US media is not covering any claims of genocide but it has been alluded to in various print media in both the UK and Russia.
 
Chui, I do know where you get your information, but perhaps you should read the rules regarding, "TheFiringLine is not a conspiracy board."
 
The word "conspiracy" is a catch all phrase generally used by those who usually don't know much. Not that they aren't capable of knowing more, mind you; they usually choose not to invest much effort - usually being distracted by sports, hobbies, entertainment, "making money", etc. It matters little what the distractions are and they are more often than not usually "self-imposed".

I'll take Brzezinski, Haig, Kissinger, et als, credentials and accomplishments over wherever you get your information. Every single day. I'll also take PNAC, NED, Open Society, CFR, RIIA, etc words over CNN, MSNBC and FOX's pseudo-informative broadcasts. The "conspiracy" is the belief that the Ossetian irregulars are "keeping the displaced Ossetians from returning". Keep that thought and check back in a few days. It, like many other erroneous claims like bombed pipeline, Russian genocide, Russian unprovoked attack, Russians shelling other towns ended up being shown to be utter poppycock. Just MAINTAIN INTEREST and see for self.

To many - not all - Georgia is a "new phenomena" as is the Caucasus. I've been closely studying this region, the history, culture and, yes, natural resources and alliances for the better part of 20 years. No one listened... now they're self-professed "experts". I don't think so.
 
So, Germany, which previously had blocked Georgia's application for NATO membership says now it should be fast-tracked.
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You realize that if this had happened, if Germany had not blocked Georgia's NATO membership, we would now be at war with Russia (along with all of Western Europe) in order to defend Stalin's birthplace? I'm all for an active foreign policy that promotes our ideals. I don't see how backing Georgia's attack on Russia promotes our ideals. We can talk all day long about how the poor Georgian people were provoked into launching an armored assault on their much stronger neighbor; but the question keeps coming back to "Do we want to be obligated to defend an ally with nuclear weapons when that ally feels free to attack despite our warnings not to?"

The Ukraine is asking for missile defense assets to be placed on its territory. The signs of the "genocide" in South Ossetia that Russia claimed are proving difficult to find, while the South Ossetian rebels are refusing to allow Georgian South Ossetian refugees return to their homes.
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Some 10,000 Ossetians evacuated Ossetia to refugee camps in Vladikavkaz after the Georgia attack. How many of them would have been allowed to return if Russia had done nothing? If I show up and burn your house down; but allow you to gather your things and flee first - that isn't technically genocide; but it sure doesn't encourage you to hang around and protest your civil rights does it?

Russia's neighbors do not seem as sanguine about Russia's good intentions or right to intimidate them as some here are.
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If you are that concerned about Russia's intentions for its neighbors, you should be even more concerned about how we can possibly thwart those intentions if we are obligated to defend the stupid moves of their neighbors/our allies. If American foreign policy is inextricably tied to the leadership decisions of some former Soviet Union republic still dealing with capitalism, we are going to have some serious problems and not in the distant future either.
 
If it was in NATO, Russia would not have risked it and we would not be having this discussion, period. If they actually attacked Russia while in NATO, NATO is not obligated to oppose a defensive response from Russia, period.
 
If it was in NATO, Russia would not have risked it and we would not be having this discussion, period.
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Why do you think so? There were 1,127 American troops in Georgia when the Russians retaliated by invading. The Russians even bombed the airbase where they were stationed. We wouldn't be any more capable of actually, practically defending Georgia than we are now. So I don't think it would be wise to assume that Russia would back down from being attacked by a much smaller nation just because that nation was a NATO member.

If they actually attacked Russia while in NATO, NATO is not obligated to oppose a defensive response from Russia, period.
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OK then, what does NATO do when Georgia is shelled by Ossetia; but Russian peacekeepers are in Ossetia due to a 1994 peacekeeping agreement that was due primarily to the diplomatic efforts of the U.S. and Europe? Are we obligated to help Georgia defend itself from the attacks by Ossetia? How do we go about honoring that obligation without getting crossways with the Russians (who are there because we asked them to intervene?)
 
Both sides need to rethink things. WE are the "bad guys" in this one by pressuring Russia and wishing to place ICBMs within easy range of Russia proper. I don't need the oil in the Caucasus. It's not worth the killing of any of God's creatures for, either.

That does not mean that ALL Americans are "bad" and just because I find us to be provoking both Russia and China does NOT mean that there are no Russian generals itching for a fight with the US. Same with China.

We'd all be better served if we were TRUE allies with Christian Russia. We'd be untouchable.
 
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