Ever meet someone who would't use the 'the kick'?

B

bastiat

New member
George Hill's 'Roshambo' comment reminded me of a discussion I had a few years ago.

I was talking with someone who stated they wouldn't use a kick to the groin during a fight. They thought it wasn't "correct" in a fight.

No matter how many times I and another person (who was a black belt in some art or another) tried to tell him that it's best to end a fight in the fastest manner possible, he wouldn't budge.

Have you ever might anyone who had this incorrect idea of 'noble fighting'? Does anyone here subscribe to it??
 
Not me or any one I know.

I've done martial arts my whole life. A kick or knee to the groin would be one of the first things I'd do if able to. There's no such thing as "noble fighting" on the street.

I doubt the other guy would let you get up after being knocked down or give you a standing 8 count.
 
If you're in a fight, and you aren't cheating, then you aren't taking the fight very seriously.

If you're not taking the fight as a deathly serious matter, then the other guy is going to nail your scalp to the barn door.

And it isn't just those old love hammers to the groin, either.

Somewhere out there, there is a young man who got a-hold of one too many modern grappling tapes -- probably Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He took exception to me deciding to toss him out of the club he was wreaking havoc in, and I got over-confident and was playing with my food when he got me down and was applying one of those patented leg chokes. Was in the process of putting my lights out.

So I bit him.

Hard, high and inside.

*shrug* Kid decided that maybe that triangle choke might not be the best idea in the world. Gave me the opportunity to land a couple of elbow smashes and drag his semi-conscious butt to the curb.

The look on his face after he unwound that leg-choke was priceless.

LawDog
 
I quote from an English journal on fighting:

"In a land where lethal weapons are banned, you must assume that your assailant is there to kill you. No other standard holds water. The Marquess of Queensbury died in a nobler age than you stand in now.

Should a person attempt to engage you in physical banter, you must assume that his intention is to kill you - nothing more, nothing less. Code Duello is dead, and illegal to boot. So assume that any physical assault on you is meant in nothing but the deadliest manner. Reciprocate. Work to incapacitate at best.

The testicles are a wonderful yardstick as to whether or not your opponent wishes you dead. If he does, he will continue to press the attack even after a firm stamp on the those aforementioned dangly things. If he only wished you ill, he will drag himself out o the radius of combat, and I entreat you not to persue."

I love UK military manuals. They're so.... formal.
 
Beautiful. With verbiage like that- and sound suppressors encouraged- I could think about moving there, if I could have my arms in tow.
 
Rules? In a real fight?

If it's serious enough to warrant fighting, just like gunplay, it'd better be serious enough for you to pull no punches.

I wouldn't, in general go with a groin kick simply because most of us are aware of this and are prepared for it. Knees, shin, inside leg, straight kick to hip and sweeps would be my likely areas for kicks.

Then again, I'm more of a grappler, gouger & head-butt kinda guy.
 
It seems to be a growing fad these days that people won't hit one another in the groin. I cannot understand it. My view of a fight is to hurt your opponent to the point where you can run away or to the point where they can not get up and cause harm to you or anyone else.

I "dropped the hammer" on a gentleman just last night. He was not in a large hurry to leave the bar when he was asked to, and when I went to go help him on his way to the door, he decided to get a bit frisky and try to gouge my eyeballs from their respective sockets. So I dropped the hammer hard and fast, helped him to the door, and I went back inside.

There are the few out there though that seem to have no reaction when hit in the yarbles. I suggest a collapsible baton for them:p
 
It seems incredibly simple to me.

Two rules:

1) Do not initiate force
2) When met wih force, overwhelm it.

There is no Code Duello; Therefore any fighting is fair fighting.

I say rip 'em off!
 
It was amazing to me that someone could be so, well, stupid about fighting. We tried to pursuade him to the benefits of groin kicks, eye gouges, shin kicks (and scrapes) and throat punches. He didn't see it as 'fair'. Oh well, hopefully he'll never have to participate in a physical confrontation.
 
Naw - I wouldn't go for the gonads..... At least not as a first target - I'd be too busy trying to incapacitate an attacer by breaking or dislocating a knee. Knees are much lower down and easier for me to kick and more important to his ability to stand. However, if the knee isn't available and the groin is... Thump! Sucks to be him.
 
I don't believe in the noble fight at all. BUT the groin would not be a primary target at all. It is NOT a fight stopper. Sure, it might stop fights sometimes but you would be surprised at how ineffective it can be. For example, when I was into TKD seriously, I was sparring and I went for a high roundhouse. The other guy was going for the same technique but to my midsection. His leg slid along my chambered leg and right into my groin. I finished the technique as if nothing had hit me. I put my foot right into his temple no problem. But when I stopped...OUCH! I was in immediate pain. The point is, I still have plently of time to end a fight stopping blow to the head right after I was kicked in the groin.
 
Hee hee. I visited a TKD dojang tonight and watched a black belt punch another in the manly marbles. The reciever was much older than the giver, and he dropped immediately. They were supposed to be sparring in what the instructor says is Olympic style, so hitting the groin is a no-no. But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that the poor kid was sparring his dad, so that's who he nailed! It was a complete accident, but not much of a late Father's Day present.

I signed up and start tomorrow. I won't kick people in the groin during sparring, but a fight is not sparring. I don't attack people. If anyone attacks me he should expect more than he can handle.
 
Going for 'the jewels' isn't a 100% sure bet, but nothing is. I've read that a 'medium power' strike doesn't do as much damage as a heavy or light strike. I haven't done any experimentation to verify that, though :eek:

It's one of the three areas I'd look to strike first. After the first strike, I'd see if my other two options were available. And none of them are in the 'polite fighting' handbook. :)
 
Saw part of "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" earlier tonight...
Butch Cassidy: OK but let's get the rules straight first..
Harvey Logan: Rules?! There're no rules in a knife fight..
Butch kicks Harvey in groin... Harvey drops to knees
 
IMHO the main target(s) with hand to hand are head or neck. My philosophy with hand to hand is that I really don't want to be fighting with my empty hands, SG/rifle much better, and I REALLY don't want to be fighting for very long. Head and neck are only targets that will provide a "one shot stop" so to speak.

Broken/damaged limbs and blows to the groin are something most people used to contact sports or fighting are used to dealing with. I have met to many people that played whole game of football or such with a broken bone or three to think that would stop a serious opponent.

On the other hand a solid blow to the head or throat with blunt object or elbow/forearm will usually work. Head/neck cranks and strangles are also very effective if applied quickly and forcefully. In combat situations a strangle isn't (shouldn't be) applied in a slow and controled fashion. Instead they are applied at the end of a combination after guard is raised or lowered enough just like you would puch to the head in boxing. In my experiance few people except for boxers and some experiance street fighters protect the head/neck enough. Judo people will protect their neck from direct strangle attacks but they are not prepared for head/ neck crank (head/neck crank=joint lock to neck) or a serious attack to the eyes. The boxers are used to defending against punches not cranks or strangles. Exception would be kick boxers.
 
During my freshman year in college, I was sitting in the student lounge studying alone late one night (big mistake on my part, never repeated). A guy came in and stood over me demanding some money, holding me down on my chair with a hand on my shoulder, and reaching for the knife pouch on his belt with the other hand. I gave him a solid punch to the groin and he went down like a sack of potatoes. I held him facedown on the floor with my knee planted on the back of his neck (not at all gently :D ), yelling into my cellphone for the campus cops who showed up in record time.

I've noticed that in some so-called "women's self-defense classes" the ladies are instructed to pick a target like eyes, throat, ears or fingers and rake/scratch/yank with all the strength they've got, rather than go for the groin, as it's a target that's instinctively protected by men. I don't care if the other guy thinks I'm playing by the rules or not, anything is a fair target.

vertigo7
 
While fighting, groin kicks are one of my favorite targets. My brother knows that.

And when I look at my one year old niece, I think, "Thank goodness I didn't leave any permanent damage!" :D
 
If you get into a fight, there is no such thing as fair. There is only the modecum of degree of whether or not the use of deadly force is necessary or disabling is necessary. Same rules for hand to hand apply to a gunfight and vice versa.

Anyone who tries to spout "noble fighting" or "rules" has never been in a real fight and is best that they never do as they will most liely become a victim and not a survivor.
 
"The only dirty fight is the one you don't win"

-Kelly McCann

To further comment, though, I have taken knees to the groin, and they didn't do a whole lot. The other guys I used to bouce with all reported similar experiences. Someone who's a bit of a berserker will likely issue a grunt and keep right on fighting. Groin shots seem to work best on the uncommitted or the surprised. ;)
 
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