European view.

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"the need to carry a firearm the price you pay for having such liberal firearms laws"

I don't see it as really a Need per se, more like a right and responsibility to carry.

Before I even starting owning and carrying firearms, I never felt the need for it for almost 30yrs. I survived sure, but not without being put in some dangerous situations either. After being enlightened and understanding this right and personal responsibility, I chose to be armed.

Another thing is it can be fun (and safe) to own firearms! water pistols and nerf guns get old after a while :D
 
Now if i lived in America with the amount of illegal guns in the country i might think differently. Are their so many illegal firearms in circulation because of the liberal gun laws. And is felling the need to carry a firearm the price you pay for having such liberal firearms laws.

Interesting questions!

Away from the large cities, I'm sure Americans are safer than people in most European countries. Most of our violent crime is concentrated in urban areas, and a huge proportion of criminals' victims are themselves criminals, some actively involved in crime at the times of their deaths, some not. Even in the urban areas, a heavily disproportionate quantity of violent crime occurs in areas known to be frequented by criminals rather than at random or in so-called "better" neighborhoods. America's crime tallies look awful; looked at in any detail, however, they're horrendously awful in places, yet astoundingly low elsewhere.

What causes that? This may seem childishly simple, but it's true: criminals cause crime. The largest "blocks," call them, of criminals are young urban gangsters, many involved one way or another in the narcotics trade, and independent criminals, most likewise involved one way or another in the narcotics trade. They prey upon the poor, the young, the elderly, the defenseless, and of course, one another.

American "liberal" firearms laws do, indeed, mean there are millions of guns here; the crux of the matter, however, has far less to do with those laws than laws pertaining to criminals. I don't mean to say crime pays here, because it's still a losing proposition; I do mean to say, by contrast, it's punished at once infrequently, irregularly, and not very hard. Below the age of 18, gangsters need to commit murders before they run much risk of being locked up. Adult criminals sometimes receive no sentences and trivial fines, sometimes receive longer sentences, but those are invariably shortened. We don't exactly reward crime; conversely, most criminals don't have much to fear from apprehension; they also receive free legal counsel the rest of us pick up the tab for, and prisons include all manner of recreational activities.
I've been carrying one gun or another daily the past ten years. I've been in precisely no danger that entire time. Could I be in danger? Yes, but in my part of rural Colorado, the odds are heavily in favor of honest citizens rather than criminals. I carry partly for the sake of exercising a vital, all too often neglected, partly for the same reason I keep a spare tire in my car and fire extinguishers and first aid kids in car and house: it costs almost nothing, and could prove useful.

Come on over some time, eh, manta49?
 
Well all I can add is I've been on this earth more than 1/2 a century now, served in the military for a while. When I gave up that job I no longer felt the need to carry a weapon daily and where I work now won't allow that by law.

But that does not mean I lost interest in firearms, just the opposite. My interests in firearms continues to grow. Now I shoot more and enjoy shooting more each year. My children and grandchildren now also enjoy the sport as well. It is my hope that this will continue for them as it has for me.

It is my choice here to own guns and not the governments choice. Come on over and we'll go to the range!:)
 
mantra49,

You are in Ireland. Europe is a large area. While I know some of the European contries have strict requirements, and others less so. From my experience traveling to eastern Europe, firearms are readily available on the grey or black market. It may not be in your experience, but in some places in Europe, as in America, cash talks.

I have friends in eastern Europe, and while they may not admit to owning any firearms, they will admit how readily available they are, especially when you move from the city centers in to the rural areas.

Also, please dont get me wrong, I know you mention you are from Ireland, but you titled this as "European View". While many in Europe may not talk about it, there is alot of firearms out there if you ask regular people. You may not know them, but as an American "gun nut" it is pretty obvious if you ask.

Perhaps you are in the wrong area, or havent asked the right questions. After all, eastern Europe is the main smuggling area of the world for firearms so to speak at this time.
 
But after reading a lot of posts on this forum people not feeling safe without carrying a gun some not even felling safe taking a shower without having a firearm with in reach. It has got me wondering would i want the gun laws to be as liberal here as in America. I feel safe walking down the street here and the last thing i feel i need is a gun. The difference here their are a lot less illegal firearms and less crime involving firearms. Now if i lived in America with the amount of illegal guns in the country i might think differently. Are their so many illegal firearms in circulation because of the liberal gun laws. And is felling the need to carry a firearm the price you pay for having such liberal firearms laws.

Online forums tend to bring out extreme views, whatever the topic.

The vast majority of Americans don't carry guns, even if they do own one at home. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people with concealed carry permits don't even carry on a regular basis. Very, very few people worry about keeping a gun within reach 24/7.

The US isn't a war zone. There are some places that are bad territory, like gang neighborhoods, but they exist everywhere in the world unfortunately.
 
There are simply different cultures in every country (or region).

Here, we apparently love guns. We've always had them, and we worship the gunslinger, and the myth of the West, and it's absolutely impossible to grow up here without seeing, in popular entertainment, what?, tens of thousands of gun murders.

In fact, on television and in the movies, a shooting is unremarkable. But, show a woman's breast, and it's an automatic R rating.

I don't particularly mind. I have more than my share of guns. And I like it. It is what it is.

Other regions have their own versions of gun culture too. I've been in Africa. Scary. I was in Afghanistan, too, after Russia and before America. And, as we used to say, anyone who claims "an armed society is a polite society" has never been to Afghanistan.

I've also spent a lot of time in Ireland. Different deal. Different culture.

So, it's not about "God-given rights." Nor constitutions. Nor politicians waggling their jaws. It's about culture.

Maybe it'll all even out, all over the world. Don't know. But we're not particularly exceptional. We are just what we are.
 
In defense of the fellow from Northern Ireland, one of the veiled points he appeared to be making is that some folks on this forum and others seem to be a bit carried away with their gun toting to the point of being silly. I've seen posts by fellows that talk about how many guns they have on them at one time and how much ammo should they be carrying. Is just one magazine of 17 rounds enough? Are two enough? Geez! I don't know about you guys, but I do go to the supermarket unarmed. And who needs a gun at the donut shop, there's always at least one cop in there. And if you really need a cop in a real hurry, just drive through a school zone at 30 miles an hour. That'll get you a cop or two.

But on the other hand...I do in all seriousness feel that nobody needs a pistol until they REALLY need a pistol, and you never know when that might be - so my wife and I have pistols. I live in the middle of nowhere. The closest LEO is 6 miles away, and I'm not sure they actually have a LEO. They do have a car that says Sheriff on the side, but it's always parked in the same place. Is that guy, if there is a guy, going to save me if I'm in dire straights. I doubt he'd ever do much more than drive out here, say "wow, what a disgusting mess" and call the coroner. Then he'd do the requisite paperwork, and I'd read about myself in next week's obits. Of course, the chances of that happening here are about 1 in a bazillion. But...the pistol is loaded and we have two vicious housecats.
 
Well, having been a cop for over three decades of my life I can assure you that if you need one at this moment, they are only minutes away.......if you can call and if they aren't tied up, hang on, only minutes away!
 
some folks on this forum and others seem to be a bit carried away with their gun toting to the point of being silly

That's what I get from the OP too; he thinks that the folks who hang out here are really a representative slice of American culture.

We are a subset made up of gun enthusiasts. It would be difficult to draw conclusions about America as a whole by observing us.

I know a lot of gun owners who do not carry, and wouldn't under any normal conditions. Not everyone is carrying 2 guns and 40 rounds every day ;)
 
"The difference here their are a lot less illegal firearms and less crime involving firearms."

Had any luck stopping the random bombings and killings. ;)

"Jan 19, 2012 – Two bombs planted by Irish Republican Army dissidents detonated on Thursday night in the Northern Ireland city of Londonderry"
 
some folks on this forum and others seem to be a bit carried away with their gun toting to the point of being silly


I think the same thing. I do realize that people who are all in for anything usually appear silly to those who aren't all in. But I'm at least partially in to self defense, home defense, hunting, shooting and guns in general and I think some of the discussions that go on here with the utmost seriousness are a bit silly.

At least they can have the discussions though. That's good.
 
So, it's not about "God-given rights." Nor constitutions. Nor politicians waggling their jaws. It's about culture.
A culture is a collection of attitudes and is shaped by these other things. These things explain why attitudes and culture are the way they are (and how they came to be).
 
I appreciate the replies plenty for me to think about. Its obvious Americans see the roll of government differently they don't refer to the nanny state here for nothing. To be fair this is a gun forum and you are going to get a broad range of views even if some seems over the top to me.
As for n Ireland their was a peace agreement agreed by the vast majority of the people north and south. Things are much more peaceful here than in the past but as with most agreements their are always some as***les that don't agree and continue the violence. But i wont get into N Ireland politics that would take a lifetime.

PS. Have never being to America but hope to sometime. The police and fire brigade games are here in 2013 if any forum members are coming over look me up and they can get some practice at the range.
 
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"But i wont get into N Ireland politics that would take a lifetime."

Longer, if you count all the years since my ancestors were forced off their land by the Scottish colonists brought by the English in the 17th century.

John
 
A bit back to the OP's topic...

...
It has got me wondering would i want the gun laws as liberal here as in America

We have gun laws here that are sufficient and many that are just plain stupid. Our so-called 'liberal' gun laws, same as all other laws, are made for the law abiding citizens. The United States has stringent laws pertaining to many drugs that are legal in other countries but we have a huge drug problem here.
As with laws in any country, there are people that abide by them and criminals that don't. Laws are made for the law-abiding citizen. Law abiding citizens aren't committing crimes.

Are there so many illegal firearms in circulation due to the liberal gun laws?

IMO, No.
Our gun laws have zero to do with the number of crimes committed with guns or the number of guns in criminals hands. It does have to do with our lenient laws for the criminal, including plea bargaining. If a criminal commits a crime with a weapon(not just a gun), the penalty should be great,strictly enforced, with no chance of early release from jail. Period!

And is felling the need to carry a firearm the price you pay for having such liberal gun laws.

Again, No...
...and again, the need to carry a firearm here stems a great deal from our failed judicial system that continually turns 1,2 and 3 time repeat criminal offenders loose back in society. Our prison system is over-run with people of lessor crimes, therefore many more violent offenders are receiving early release.

Finally, these are just a few thoughts off the top of my head as to the questions you had about our gun laws. I'm sure there are more efficient,detailed answers. Also, there are many countries with very stringent gun laws, some where all guns are forbidden. Yet, gun crimes are very high in them. Mexico comes to mind.

Again, laws are written for the law-abiding. Criminals pay no attention to the law. A good criminal keeps a good attorney on retainer.
 
Our right to keep and bear arms is there because free men are armed. It is not possible to make slaves or subjects out of an armed populace. It is really that simple.

A government may promise to rule fairly but it means to rule. The same government can promise to govern fairly but it means to govern. Absolute power corrupts the very best, and such a check/balance as we have provides the final say for we the people.
 
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