End Of An Era - No More Mil Brass - Merged Threads

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I am a dealer myself - and I got this email from Gov. Liquidation myself! I am not trying to scare anyone I am just tell you what the facts! Right now I am pretty devastated. My business is now on a dead-end road! Maybe we could get a bill through congress and get something going that way. But, that is going to be hard. This policy will make many small mom and pop companies like mine goes under - adding to the very high unemployment rate. Most people might not know but several bases already had the equivalent of Capt. Crunch installed couple months back. When I read about that I knew it was just a matter of time.

On a happy note my last large shipment came in just two weeks ago. So I should have enough brass for my customers for the next year.
 
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Update:

I can not verify the source or absolute authenticity of my original post. It may be a scam. Although, a person on another forum did post this:

"After reading through the material from JPFO, posted above, I phoned the D.C. office of [Montana] Senator Max Baucus. The gentleman I spoke with there indicated that they had heard about the situation and were - looking into it."

I still sent off a message to my two senators and congressman anyway. Hopefully, one of them will be able to substantiate or debunk this issue.
 
This one really puzzles me. What's the motivation for destroying the brass?
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It keeps cheap brass out of the hands of civilians. So who would that benefit?: Manufacturers of new brass.

Some ammunition manufacturer sent a couple of thousands of dollars of Campaign dollars to a Congressman, with the understanding that his office would press the executive branch to stop surplus sales of useable ammunition components. One call from a Congressional Staffer does wonders. That's how the system works.

So, no more cheap surplus powder, bullets, or brass. And you will never know which Congressman just screwed you.

Congressmen must raise between $500.00/hour (small states) and $2000/hour (big states) of campaign contributions. People who give a couple of thousand of bucks expect something for that money.

Go to www.opensecrets.org and see how much money flows to the various committees, congressmen.
 
Everyone have a good nights sleep?

Is the impending doom and gloom hysteria gone? Or at least receded?

If, what appears to have happened is true, then this is an example of a regulation affecting the lives of some of us. Whether this was prompted by political payback or an example of executive orders at work, or nothing more than bureaucratic snafu, those of you that are affected, need to find out.

You need to know exactly what this regulation actually says and when it was implemented. Verify all details about this, before you start ranting and raving to the PTB. Then....

Then you need to define a strategy to overturn this regulation.

But that's not going to happen, if all you do is rant and rave here or on other gun boards.
 
I think we all have some legitimate concerns as well as some paranoia. But in this case, my personal opinion is that a little paranoia is good.

Keep a close eye on every move. Because they're not going to call up gun owners when they do sneak in some legislation to limit availability of ammo or add controls on firearms. Just like almost all unpopular legislation, it will worm it's way in.

Keep a little paranoia high, stay on high alert, investigate every rumor and any success they have will be slowed.
 
Looks like you need an end use certificate to buy now... Meaning that you have to somehow show that you are using this domestically and not exporting it to places like Iran or Cuba.

I'd imagine that it will mean for a place that does reloading for a business that you will have to supply the license used to manufacturer ammo.

I could be wrong but I think that live ammo has been this way for many many years. Looks like just another chunk of paper work (and a pain in the butt)
 
You need to know exactly what this regulation actually says and when it was implemented.
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The DRMS Manual dated February 2009 addresses expended cartridge cases on Page 79:

DRMS-I 4160.14
Section 3 - Special Processing

Cartridge Cases (Fired Brass) - Expended

Definition/Description
Ammunition components consisting of cartridge and shell casings are subject to the International Traffic In Arms Regulations set forth in subchapter M of 22 Code of Federal Regulations (22 CFR 120.1. et.seq). Once expended, they are processed as fired brass scrap, with precautions to avoid improper release of unexpended cases.

Policy References/Authority
DOD 4160.21-M and DOD 4160.21-M-1.

Unique Processing Information/How to Manage
Receiving: The ETID/DTID must include the appropriate DEMIL code or clear-text statement for each receipt. The turn-in must contain certification that the residue is inert. Two signatures, a certifier and a verifier are required. Opening sealed/banded containers invalidates the inert certification. DRMOs will inspect what is readily visible (open boxes and drums) to verify the absence of contaminants, such as live rounds. No other level of inspection is required.

NOTE: Not authorized for receipt from DLA Depot Recycling Control Points (RCPs).

Warehousing/Storage: Storage will be accomplished in a properly assigned DEMIL Code “A” or “B” scrap pile.

Reutilization/Transfers/Donations: GSA regional offices are authorized to approve transfer to SASPs, for donation to state and local governments, surplus expended cartridge cases (under .50 caliber) for reloading of the cartridges.

DEMIL: All expended small arms cartridge cases (50 caliber and under) are assigned DEMIL Code “E.” Expended shotgun shell cases are assigned DEMIL Code “A.” Expended artillery cases are assigned DEMIL Code “B.”

Sales: Sales in CONUS are authorized for casings 50 caliber and under (to satisfy local/reloading market/demand only). The appropriate sales method will be determined based on location, commodity condition, etc. as well as any current, unique sales/scrap processing initiatives that may be in place. End Use Certificates are required for these sales.

Abandonment/Destruction: Used if specifically directed on a case-by-case basis.

Property Accounting: DEMIL performed code “9” is authorized for casings assigned DEMIL Code “E” but no DEMIL is required. No additional unique property accounting required.
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While there may have been recent changes, I could not find any notice of subsequent changes to the above.
 
Is this much ado about nothing, or is there actually more to this? Anyone?
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Not sure.

DEMILITARIZATION CODES

A Non-MLI/Non-CCLI -- Demilitarization not required.

B MLI (Non-SME) -- Demilitarization not required. Trade Security Controls required at disposition.

C MLI (SME) -- Remove and/or demilitarization installed key point(s), as prescribed in this manual, or lethal parts, components and accessories.

D MLI (SME) -- Total destruction of item and components so as to preclude restoration or repair to a usable condition by melting, cutting, tearing, scratching, crushing, breaking, punching, neutralizing, etc. (As an alternate, burial or deep water dumping may be used when approved by the DOD Demilitarization Program Office.)

E MLI -- Demilitarization instructions to be furnished by the DoD Demilitarization Program Office.
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The regulations gc70 quotes say that small arms cases are to be sold, but they are held to Demil spec E and those instructions may have changed. It would not be the first time that government regulations have conflicted with one another.

If the cases were covered under code A then there would probably be nothing to worry about, but since they are under code E we need to know what the current demil instructions are, as it is entirely possible that they HAVE been changed.

So we don't have enough information to say it is happening, but we can't yet say that it isn't happening either.
 
I think this is something we should be worried about. This will take millions of brass casings out of the system, causing ammo to go up and up. There is not a ban. The DOD is just not going to sell their millions of rounds of once fired casings that exist after training. Apparantly the DOD pulls in some serious $$ from this, so it makes no sense. It has to be something created by Obama. Why would the DOD cut their own throats and funds? See link below


http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/dod-ends-sale-of-expended-military.html
 
Yeah, it's Demil Code B, but with Integrity Code 3 now added.

More here:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=844248&page=1


Evidently, the DRMO/DRMS auctions that are currently active will require mutilation of said brass once the auction is complete, per the terms. The edict came down from DLA, ostensibly because of the recent F-14 Tomcat parts sale SNAFU.

NRA-ILA has been notified, and they're hoping to get a D0D waiver in place for .50 caliber and smaller cartridge brass over the next few weeks.

Operative word, of course, being hope.
 
Take the time to listen to this.

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=443576

What you'll want to listen to is about 12:30 minutes into the broadcast...if you want to fast forward to that point.

Like I said in my earlier post, we can talk about this issue here...which is fine.

But, everyone needs to contact their senators & representatives.
 
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Is this on or off. The DRMO at my post says it's on. Some people are posting links to auctions that don't have the destruction notice. Who has the latest info? Are the auction links just not updated? Has the NRA said anything?
 
I took the time last Friday to write both Government Liquidations LLC and the DLA Public Affairs Office to see if this was for real or a hoax. I haven't heard back from the DLA but I did hear back from Government Liquidations. Here is what they said in response to my email:

Dear Mr. Rxxxxxx,



Thank you for your e-mail. This is correct. Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.



Sincerely,



Customer Service Management

Government Liquidation, LLC

DOD Surplus, LLC

15051 N. Kierland Blvd, Ste 300

Scottsdale, AZ 85254

Ph: 480.367.1300

Fax: 480.367.1450

Email: info@govliquidation.com

Online Help:http://www.govliquidation.com/help/index.html

-k-




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Rxxxxx [mailto:jpr9@nospam.net]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:20 PM
To: GL Info
Subject: Demil Code B policy for cartridge brass



Dear Sirs,

I received the following email purported to be from you that said all expended munition cartridge brass must be mutilated. See the email below. Is this correct or not? Does it extend to items like 9mm or 5.56x45 cartridge brass?

John Rxxxxx
 
This bs has me thinking... And yes I wrote my congressman... Could the reasoning for this follow two goals...

A. Take our brass away
B. Possibly make more money selling it as scrap?

To justify option B.. Has anyone seen what prices scrap brass is bringing in? I mean its so high here that people are stealing everything made with brass and copper... Even the nuts off the fire hydrants.. A local little league field had all of the copper wiring stolen recently...
 
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