Empty chamber for safety - good idea or not?

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When I was taught how to shoot revolvers - abut 50 years ago - it was on an old SA. I was taught to carry on an open chamber. BUT . . . that was drilled in to me to do - especially while hunting. I've always done it on cap and ball SA revolves but they are a whole different animal.

I carry a S & W Model 36 for CCW - it has a 5 round cylinder - it also has all of the modern safety features built in. I carry with all chambers loaded - I'm comfortable with 5 . . . not comfortable with 4. :D

I really don't see a purpose of an empty chamber on a modern revolver with the safety features they now have. Personally, I feel better with a wheel gun with all chambers loaded . . much more so than I would be carrying a semi-auto all set to fire. That's a personal thought though and I know many carry in that manner with a semi . . . what can I say? But . . I'm more comfortable with wheel guns due to my shooting history. I'm just old and set in my ways! :eek::D
 
With a modern revolver that has a hammer block, or transfer bar there is no need to leave an empty chamber in the cylinder. You need to know your gun. My early 70's Super Blackhawk does not have the safety modification as I want to keep It original. So when I carry It hunting I leave the hammer down on an empty chamber.
With a semi-auto It makes no sense to have an empty chamber at all. A semi-auto with an empty chamber is an empty gun!
 
Just out of curiosity, what specific model are you using? That could put an end to a lot of speculation.

That being said, I'll join in. The only guns I ever pack not fully loaded are a couple Cimarrons I carry in the woods, for the not-drop-safe reasons mentioned above. I even live on the edge with my two pre-war Smith & Wessons, and have them fully loaded. They live in the safe most of the time, and would only be carried in the woods in full flap holsters.

Modern guns, load 'em up.

As far as the first trigger pull falls on an empty chamber? No way, no how. If I'm needing to pull that trigger, it's going to be for a reason. I assume, and I hope I never have to find out first hand, that I'm not going to want to waste time or lose a round on target.

I will go one step further and point out that the gun is, or at least should be, secured in a holster or sitting unmolested in/on a nightstand or wherever you keep it. If you are going to handle it in a not-about-to-shoot type situation, it should be fully unloaded and triple checked. Even then, the four rules still apply. I'm not suggesting that you don't already know this, but safety, safety, safety never hurts to mention.

Good luck, hope you get comfortable and be safe.
 
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Great answers! I'd say that's an overwhelming "NO" to carrying with an empty chamber. Like I said in the original post, I'm new to shooting, but I kind of figured it would be undesirable to leave a chamber empty on a revolver. The conversation that initiated my question concerned semi-autos and the possibility of accidental discharge while drawing, and I wondered if it carried over to revolvers as well. That, combined with this video, had me curious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEuBXWujeYQ

Heh, by the way, that's not me in the video. But I think that shows one of the biggest fears of people who are new to the world of guns and shooting. Accidental discharge. But with a revolver's heavier trigger pull, the chances of that happening would be minimal, wouldn't you agree? Thanks for all the input. Feel free to add more. I'm all about learning from others who are more experienced than me.

Mike

To 9mmfan: I'm not carrying yet. I'm on the verge of purchasing my first handgun, so this was just an observation/question from a new shooters' perspective. Still learning the basics.:D
 
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groverdill said:
...the possibility of accidental discharge while drawing...
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That's why you gotta practice. Empty gun. Ammo and magazines in another room. Double check that the gun is empty. Triple check. If you get distracted or interrupted, check again. That finger should be indexed along the frame above the trigger guard until you are on target. When you grip the gun, your finger should be laid straight along the outside of the holster.

Booger hook off that bang switch. Any time you are handling that gun when you are not about to shoot.

Read that again.

That needs to become ingrained in your mind. It should happen naturally. It will carry over to when you pick up a drill or a bottle of Windex. It'll make you laugh when that happens.

When you are finished and ready to load up the gun, say it out loud if it helps. "I'm finished practicing, and am reloading." After that, don't fiddle with it.

Not trying to preach, just trying to help a brother out. Some lessons come harder than others. Something about learning from other folk's mistakes rather that your own. I will readily admit to complacency and being in a hurry ended up with a .32 caliber hole in my mattress. You don't forget something like that. I know my wife won't let me. Rightfully so. I think she just wants changing the sheets to be a "me" thing instead of an "us" thing.:p

Just saw your edit. Good for you for asking questions before launching into this. That's a good habit to get into. Good luck, and find you a nice piece. Then, pictures!:D
 
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Re: the video is why some ranges & training facilities have banned the Serpa retention holsters. I must have watched the beginning 10 times. . I have two and like them very much & plan on continuing to uses them. Used properly this would not happen. The only thing more ironic would have been when he whipped it out from behind to say he didn't blame gun or holster if he had shot his back side.
 
9mmfan, shame on you...

.... for carrying a .32 :D

Glad it didn't turn out worse. Family dogs sometimes like to sleep on the bed, don't they? :eek:

Jim March, IIRC, Elmer wrote that a cowboy would lift the heavy stirrup onto the saddle and then bend over to tighten the strap (girth strap? - don't ask me about horses!). Then the stirrup would slip off and fall right onto the hammer of the old model six-gun, resulting in a bang if it were fully loaded. This was fact as he said it had happened.

And I believe he also talked of the way a dropped single action could and did rotate to land right on the hammer. Again, fully loaded would result in a bang with a gun that is aimed up at somebody's soft under-belly, as Churchill put it. Or worse, the horse could get shot :(

Bart Noir
 
The conversation that initiated my question concerned semi-autos and the possibility of accidental discharge while drawing,
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Thanks for being more specific. I USED to carry my Semi Auto's with an empty chamber. I have a Diamondback DB9 which is a small pocket sized 9mm. it has no external safeties, but has a very heavy trigger. Loading the first round into the chamber manually often results in a jam. I don't need this in a already stressful situation. When I carry this piece it is in a holster that covers the trigger. I also carry my SR9C loaded with the safety on.

The best safety is not to put your finger into the trigger hole until you are ready to fire. and take it out of the hole before you holster. It is amazing how many people shoot themselves in the leg putting the weapon back into the holster.

Go to Youtube and search the topic Carry empty chamber There are a dozen or more videos explaining why it is not a good idea.
 
I did know of one accident with an old-type Ruger .44 Magnum. The man was carrying it in a hip holster and when he got in his pickup truck it slid out and landed on the hammer. It went off, sending a bullet up through his inner leg, missing the bone. Fortunately he survived but ended up with a bad limp and a huge gash out of his flesh. Had the bullet been a bit to the left, it would have gone into his torso and undoubtedly killed him.

IMHO, there are two lessons there. One is to keep an empty chamber under the hammer with those Rugers and the older guns of the same type. The other is that a retention strap is a good idea unless you are planning to get into a gun fight.

Jim
 
But never the chamber to the left requiring two shots to fire.
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If that revolver is most modern double action S&W's or Ruger you'll be in for a rude awakening.

An empty under the hammer and an empty to the left will go bang first pull of the trigger.

Remember that Smith's & Ruger D/A's revolve counter clockwise!!!
 
Essentially you'd have to pull the trigger twice to fire
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There is simply no reason to do this. A modern gun is safe with the hammer over a loaded chamber and I'm not sure why you would want to pull the trigger twice in a self defense situation.
 
Ruger will modify the old revolvers with an added transfer bar safety, IIRC. I saw a trial where someone had an old one and dropped it. Sued but it was shown that he was aware of the warning not to load all six and of the free modification. Ruger won the case but gave him some money anyway.
 
If you feel you're responsible enough to carry a gun, you should be responsible enough to carry it as it's meant to be. Loaded and ready to shoot.
 
A friend used to do this with his home defense model 19. The idea was that if someone else got a hold of the gun and decided to fire it they would be disappointed by that first trigger pull.

The owner would know to simply pull the trigger twice.


I mentioned this another time and everyone got upset. I don't really see what the stink is about - it doesn't degrade the usability of the firearm meaningfully, and confounds an attacker in a similar way to a slide mounted safety on an auto.
 
Mr. Bart Noir...

Yessir, I've learned my lesson on both counts. The .32 Tomcat Inox has been long sold off. That was the complacent part. Stupid, too. Had I just taken the 1/10th of a second to tip up the barrel as designed, that ND could've been easily avoided. Or just left it cocked and locked. I was exhausted and just not thinking straight. Again, better to learn from other folks' mistakes.

It absolutely could have been worse. Don't have dogs, married a cat person and we were between felines at the time. Wife was in Oklahoma, and lest anyone gets the wrong idea, I ain't that good of a shot.:eek: The hole is on my side of the bed anyway.

I was actually fairly calm in my panic, if that makes sense. I was more worried about it going through the floor into the bedroom below, we lived in the upper half of a duplex. Found the bullet slightly mangled sitting on the floor under the bed. Fortunately the worst that came out of it was a slight ringing in my right ear for a bit afterward.

On a brighter side, the dough from selling that .32 and a Cabela's gift card became my 1920 S&W .38 M&P.

Sorry to venture off topic, but I think that if anyone can learn from my stupid error it's worth the embarrassment of relating the tale.
 
Ruger paid off on multiple lawsuits by people who just HAD to have the sixth shot and either did not manage it properly, were careless, or just unlucky and wanted somebody to blame. It was cheaper for them to redesign their guns than to keep getting sued.
 
michaelnel said:
I prefer to ALWAYS behave as if a gun is loaded. Therefore, I keep them loaded so there is no confusion.
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That's my general rule. Which I've explained to wife. If you see any of my guns they are loaded. At least. 75 % are except long term storage and those are rifles. No kids at home to worry about. All revolvers are 100% loaded
 
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