El Monte and Alabama excessive force incidents and End of Chase Syndrome

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Why no charges? I suspect it's politics as usual. The DA and the police are on the same team; further, no DA wants to be seen as soft on crime or hard on the police. Then too, there's the internal culture of the police dept. One local county which I will not name has had a racist and trigger-happy reputation for the forty years I've lived in the area. Despite the occasional investigation (FBI was involved, more than once if I recall correctly) nothing really changes. The Chief gets swapped out every so often, but it's difficult to impossible to weed out the folks who shouldn't be carrying anything more lethal than their bare hands. I imagine it must be very frustrating for the honorable and responsible LEOs, to be tarred with the same brush, so to speak.

On the plus side, the local Va dept mentioned in my earlier post is studying alternatives to having SWAT teams serving warrants on non-violent offenders.
I don't think they're looking into why it was thought necessary in the first place. Of course, when you have a weapon available, the tendency is to use it. The availablility of funding from Homeland Security (am I the only one who finds that title a bit disturbing?) has contributed to the development of a lot of para-military equipment and capability in local police departments; possibly a lot more than is needed.
 
There seems to be an unfortunate trend of militarization of law enforcement.
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I agree, with family and friends in law enforcement for years I've seen the trend,however one aspect of an officer losing control is how it affects him in his personal life, his family, once he is conditioned to react with force or rage it becomes hard to hold on to reality at home, divorce rate is high among law enforcement.

Truthfully I believe some type of psychological testing every 5 years should be mandatory, it would protect the public and the officer.
 
The second guessing and breast beating about the excesses of Police work are just two of the reasons I and many of my fellow LEOs stopped proactive Police work. We are getting results also, Chicago had more murders than Baghdad last year. But, the bright side a lot less "rights" were violated and I haven't been sued federally in over 6 years.


once he is conditioned to react with force or rage it becomes hard to hold on to reality at home
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That is an insulting and a Non sequitur. While LEOs have a higher rate of divorce than the GP LEOS have a lower incidence of DV. Unfortunately LEOs harm themselves more than others with their demons.
 
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Anyone notice the poor innocent motorist running down the cop who tried to spike the van at the first of the video?

Seems to be getting glossed over by the left wing fringe and other nutcases.
 
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Why no charges? I suspect it's politics as usual. The DA and the police are on the same team; further, no DA wants to be seen as soft on crime or hard on the police. Then too, there's the internal culture of the police dept. One local county which I will not name has had a racist and trigger-happy reputation for the forty years I've lived in the area. Despite the occasional investigation (FBI was involved, more than once if I recall correctly) nothing really changes. The Chief gets swapped out every so often, but it's difficult to impossible to weed out the folks who shouldn't be carrying anything more lethal than their bare hands. I imagine it must be very frustrating for the honorable and responsible LEOs, to be tarred with the same brush, so to speak.
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Much of it is an us vs them attitude bred in training and nurtured in dealing mainly with sheep and the wolves that prey on them everyday. Much of it is a gentleman's agreement. I can't speak for the rest of the country but I'm a politically conservative male in my 50s and I've been observing this trend in California LE for decades. What I have seen time after time is a set of standard operating procedures. Again these are not attacks just 30+ years of observations.

SOPs:
1) The LE agency circles the wagons and begins leading and (less commonly) intimidating witness to exonerate the officer. A classic case happened back in the 1980s. A middle aged middle class African-American couple stopped to get gas (Anaheim, CA?) and spotted a LEO beating a suspect. They called the police to report the crime. They were then arrested and prosecuted for "filing a false police report" against the officer. The judge threw out the case as a blatant attempt to intimidate the public into remaining silent on abuses. Riverside, CA a police fusillade into a woman sleeping in her car with her pistol on her lap led to multiple press releases and press conferences about what a horrible human being she was. Murrieta, CA an off duty shooting in a bar led to an immediate press statement on what evil mean and nasty people the shootees were. SOP step 1a) Intimidate and lead witnesses, step 1b) demonize and dehumanize the shooting/beating victim in the media, step 1c) release a report exonerating the officer. In the cases cited I make no judgement of guilt or innocence only on the method of dealing with the cases. But in one recent and extreme case it went so far that the parents of a child molestation victim received death threats from someone very familiar with non public aspects of the case. The molestation suspect was a long time LEO and the charges had been brought by another agency. I personally think most officers are good men and women but are victims of an us vs them system and also don't want to risk being the next Serpico.

2) Whenever possible DA's in this area accept the official report and quietly decline to file charges.

3) If backed into a political corner the DA's office will file charges but will simply throw the case and blame "brain damaged jurors". Methods vary. In a taped Long Beach CA beating the suspect was beaten unconscious, but that did not stop the officer who continued the beating with his nightstick while literally dancing a jig around the suspect. Fellow officer were so appalled that they failed to confiscate the video tape. However the DA refused to enter the video tape into evidence during the trial. A board of rights later reinstated the officer to duty. Orange County CA, the DA's office "accidentally" deleted the 20 minutes of a jail house security video showing deputies beating a suspect. Strangely enough they only deleted that 20 minutes from the video. But without a video they were "forced" to drop the case.

The examples could go on forever but I do not submit these to attack LE. Only to answer the question. I think the vast majority of LEOs are as appalled as you or I. But I also think they suffer from the "but for the grace of god go I" syndrome that leads them to protect the old boy system. After all anybody, even a really outstanding officer can loose it once and it's nice to know you have a backstop to protect your butt even if it means that it protects the rare bad guy in blue.
 
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The second guessing and breast beating about the excesses of Police work are just two of the reasons I and many of my fellow LEOs stopped proactive Police work. We are getting results also, Chicago had more murders than Baghdad last year. But, the bright side a lot less "rights" were violated and I haven't been sued federally in over 6 years.
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OK, Thanks for clearing that up. I hope I am misunderstanding you, but this sounds like a "Jack Nicholson" answer, the whole " You give me the dirty jobs to do and then question the way I do it" ? I expect this kind of response at some point, pardon me if this one comes as a surprise.

Anyone notice the poor innocent motorist running down the cop who tried to spike the van at the first of the video?
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I saw the motorist who is presumed innocent until proven guilty. And therein lies the rub, while anyone who saw the video has no doubt that the motorist is likely to be convicted when his case goes to court, until that happens he has specific rights that should be protected.

When even a scumbag gets the crap beat out of him under color of law it is still illegal. Lets assume that the video showed a soccer mom (your wife, girlfriend, daughter or mom) pulled over for a minor traffic infraction only to get beaten within inches of her life, would that make a difference? According to law, does the scumbag have less rights than the innocent soccer mom? The simple answer is no.

Sure, watching some guy try to clip a copper trying to stop him is inflammatory, but if it is OK to kick his a$$ over it, why would it be less OK for the soccer mom to get pounded? They are still both entitled to equal protection under the law, so by that reasoning, also should get equal treatment ? No ?

Unless things like this are prosecuted, I fear that is the direction we are headed. If you have a subset of people who can operate above the law, they are going to do just that.
 
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And another trend I don't care for is the increasing use of abbreviations on this forum. I don't understand half of them. Maybe I ought to get out more.
 
And another trend I don't care for is the increasing use of abbreviations on this forum. I don't understand half of them.
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I may have contributed to the confusion, let me see if I can help;

MOS=Military Occupation Specialty ( your job in the military)
LE=Law Enforcement
LEO=Law Enforcement Officer
LEA=Law Enforcement Agency
DA= District Attorney
BDU=Battle Dress Uniform (Fatigues)
ROE=Rules of Engagement ( The rules for a combat situation )
APC= Armored personnel carrier
Hope that helps, :cool:
 
Who has the responsibility and authority to bring such charges ? Would it not be the States Atty. / Local DA ?
Is it really as simple as the fact that the DA is unwilling to bring such charges ?
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Yes, it is that simple. However the FBI also has juridiction, so it could end of prosecuted by the feds (that seldom seems to happen either.)
 
Dont forget they have the Internal affairs people, LOL thats like letting the fox watch the hen house! All such incedents should be taken out of the offending departments hands and given over to a public review board of some kind.Maybe then these kind of things will be delt with in a more fair and just manner.
 
The second guessing and breast beating about the excesses of Police work are just two of the reasons I and many of my fellow LEOs stopped proactive Police work. We are getting results also, Chicago had more murders than Baghdad last year. But, the bright side a lot less "rights" were violated and I haven't been sued federally in over 6 years.
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So, correct me if I am wrong, you and other officers have "stopped" doing your job just because you cant or are unable to do it within the scope of the law?

Proactive is great, just do it within the confines of the constitution.

Anyone notice the poor innocent motorist running down the cop who tried to spike the van at the first of the video?
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The suspect motorist is presumed innocent. And yes I saw him almost hit an officer. I also saw the officer step away from the safety behind a patrol car to attempt to thow a spike strip in front of the suspects vehicle, which was being chased at a high rate of speed. Common sense should tell you that if you are trying to apprehend someone that is not wanting to be apprehended, and you step in his way, he most likely wont stand down. Not blaming the officer or stating that its the officers fault that the suspect almost hit him. Just saying that if you touch a hot stove, dont be surprised if you get burned.

Last thought. If you cant do a job within the rules and regulations laid out for said job, you need to quit.
 
So, correct me if I am wrong, you and other officers have "stopped" doing your job just because you cant or are unable to do it within the scope of the law?

Proactive is great, just do it within the confines of the constitution.
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I have turned into report taker because it's not worth the aggravation to play police. But, as I said I haven't been sued or received a complaint in over six years.

The suspect motorist is presumed innocent. And yes I saw him almost hit an officer. I also saw the officer step away from the safety behind a patrol car

Last thought. If you cant do a job within the rules and regulations laid out for said job, you need to quit.
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You can presume him innocent all you want he is still guilty on the street.

No, you saw a Officer doing his job.

Last thought. you will get the society you deserve, God help you.
 
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I'm no expert, but it seems to me that Chicago must be a hell of a hard place to be a cop. Politics aplenty, "advocates" crawling out of the woodwork to screech and protest and sue every time little Johnny Criminal gets his hair messed up, corruption, neverending scandals. I'm not surprised at all that Chicago cops find themselves playing it safe.

You should move out of IL to the civilized world, Wagonman. It's different over here, and we need cops too.:D
 
Still guilty on the street. Since when were cops given judicial powers.

That statement speaks volumes about the problem.

And I did not say that the spike strip officer was not doing his job. I opined that he was careless and made a very stupid decision, IMO.
 
If this is how the law inforcement in our country feel and act, then our legal system has failed.
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If our system had cops acting as judges or performing other legal resposibilities, I would agree with you, but that isn't the case. The way our system works, I don't see how the way a cop mentally regards the person being arrested has any bearing on the situation.

If they see somebody in violation of the law, that person is indeed "street guilty", and they get treated like a criminal temporarily.

If a cop sees some maniac waving a huge Bowie knife in some grandmother's eye, what are they supposed to do? Kindly ask "innocent" Mr. Psychopath to come along down to the courthouse so that he may be tried?

No. That man gets treated like a criminal as a practical matter. The term "guilty" in its strict legal sense don't even come into it, that's for later on down the road, and cops are not the ones who make that call.
 
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B. Lahey,

Stop the "street guilty" crap. With regards to people breaking the law a cops job is to arrest, gather info to put together a case to forward to the DA. The DA decides to charge or not and Judge/jury decides guilt or not. This "he is already street guilty" put the officer in a biased mindset.

And your statements on how cops treat potential criminals. I sure hope you are not a cop. No on in this thread has suggest for a cop to treat a knife weildng suspect in the manner as you described. You description is flippant crap. Your see there is this certain thing called "Use of Force". It outlines and guides an officer on how and when to respond to a threat. No where in the Use of Force does it say you get to beat the hell out of an unsconscious suspect or kick a compliant suspect in the head. So I do not know where your getting that I and others are advocating what BS you decsribe in your post about treating suspects.

FWIW. If you have a criminal armed with a knife that is an IMEDIATE threat to you or the public, use of deadly force is justfied. Just dont beat the hell out of the dead body afterwards.
 
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