El Monte and Alabama excessive force incidents and End of Chase Syndrome

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Earlier I wrote,
I have no problem with this. What I DO have a problem with is that you've already convicted the officers in both of these situations. YOU are insisting on the standard of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" EXCEPT for the officers in these two incidents. You've assumed that they are guilty and that has yet to be proven.

OuTcAsT said:
Yes, you are correct for the most part except for one thing, It was not I who pronounced innocence or guilt, If you can find one sentence in any post I made which expresses anything which was not provided in direct evidence on the OP videotapes please point it out.

No time or interest in going back. I'll take your word for it and apologize for accusing you of doing this when it was others. I was using the "editorial 'you' " and that was inappropriate. But Dust Monkey has those folks convicted and all but serving time before the fact finding part of the investigation is even completed! Lol.
 
The militant attitude that is all consuming in today’s LE is scary. Police should not act like soldiers. Soldiers are trained to kill, period. They are trained to seek out an enemy and kill.

Dr. Strangelove said:
I'm glad to see others are seeing the same things I do, I'm tired of seeing the police "playing army". Black combat boots, fatigue pants, AR-15's and MP-5's? Come on now, quit playing special forces. There is no place in civilian police work for military weaponry, particularly not carried by individual officers on a daily basis. Then they wonder why they get no respect? Don't go around looking like some sort of death squad member.

You sound like an old time police administrator. Are you one? ROFL. Let's get some facts straight. Police have been wearing black combat boot for ages, long before I played the game. Fatigue pants go with the rest of the BDU outfit and are rarely worn by street police officers. Because SWAT teams and other special units get dirtier more frequently than them and it's expensive to dry clean regular uniforms they wear BDU's that can be tossed in the washer to get them clean. AR-15's? Perhaps you missed the North Holly Bank Robbery in Los Angeles that held hostage and terrorized the neighborhood because two crooks were wearing full body armor that stopped the handgun and shotgun rounds that was all the police officers had. They were armed with rifles firing fully automatic and hundreds of rounds of ammo. Officers were going to a local gun store and "borrowing" rifles to stop those crooks. Those crooks were finally stopped by the arrival of SWAT team members who were on a training evolution and arrived as the suspects were fleeing.

Dr. Strangelove said:
Seems every little town has to have it's own "Swat" team, or whatever they want to call them.

Completely inaccurate. When you get some facts to back this up, let us know. Until then, I'll tell you from experience that FEW police departments in the grand scheme of things have a full SWAT team. They may have something similar to handle lower grade incidents but most departments will call the nearby larger department that has a full time team to handle bigger incidents. Police chiefs like to keep control of things within their own borders.

Dr. Strangelove said:
Is this really a good use of our tax dollars?

If you don't think so it's up to you to make your wishes known. Start writing to your local government officials protesting how they spend your tax dollars. If they agree, they’ll stop that sort of spending. But before you waste your time you should realize that they've authorized those expenditures long ago and most of them think it was money well spent. These days often it's FREE money from the Feds and they love to take it.

Dr. Strangelove said:
I think the police need to lay off the "Die Hard" movies and focus on real police work rather than playing with their toys at the gun range. Bradenton, FL, has a "Marine Response Unit", or some such nonsense. It's fun to watch them practice their "Navy Seal" rolls out of a souped up Zodiak raft into Tampa Bay. But what do they plan to do? Assault the beach? Commando attack? Looks like just another excuse to play with big boys' toys at taxpayer expense.

The fact is that police departments charged with enforcing the law in such areas need to be ready for whatever comes along. A good friend of mine is on the police dive team for a large and busy commercial/pleasure boating harbor. They dive every commercial boat that enters their jurisdiction, searching for explosives and drugs. Terrorists would love to stop shipping from moving in and out of it. It's impossible to stop all acts of terrorism, but it's stupid to stop trying.

Dr. Strangelove said:
Anyway, yes, I too am appalled by the recent changes in police appearance and tactics. I believe it encourages a similar ramp-up in weapons and violence by criminals.

Nonsense. Police officers in metropolitan areas did not start carrying rifles until AFTER the criminals did. The aforementioned North Hollywood Bank Robbery was the impetus for MANY departments to get them. Like an officer's holstered handgun they sit quietly in the rack until needed. Criminals were shooting each other with automatic weapons for ages before police got them. The move to semi-automatic handguns from revolvers happened because the crooks were using them, long before LE got them. You've REALLY got this backwards.

Dr. Strangelove said:
We're slowly losing or rights as citizens and becoming more of a police state every day...

I'll disagree but even if you were right, please give us some idea of how police officers wearing combat boots, BDU's and having AR-15's has something to do with this.
 
WOW!!! JUST ABSOLUTELY WOW!!! Someone has misread my posts to think I said was a cop? Never once have I said or implied that! You got me mixed up with someone else...
It is understood that BDU stands for "Battle Dress Uniform"... Thus law enforcement is prepared for battle against civilians.

Brent
 
Wow bigger hammer, good thing there's no charge for bandwidth on this forum!:D

I have no problem with police wearing combats - polished and under normal pants. "Blousing" into black combat fatigues sends out the wrong message to the public. Police officers should dress professionally, not like the thugs they are chasing.

As far as the "SWAT" team stuff; sure, train some guys to act in unusual situations - but this quasi-special forces type nonsense? Seriously? Remember, these are police activities here, not combat missions.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdogs
In my state I have the right to carry the weapon concealed anywhere in my car without a CCP so long as it is not on my person. It can be in any state of readiness I choose. So my statement of going to the range should not increase PC.
I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time believing your comment that you were a police officer. In the situation that I gave OF COURSE, having a gun increases the officer's PC. The suspect used a gun in his crimes and you too have a gun. It makes not the slightest bit of difference that it's legal for you to carry it or not. You were not arrested for possession of the gun but for the rape. This is police work 101.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdogs
Since I would not rape nor store panties in my truck, I would not be able to go along with your scenario...
The situation I gave is a bit like a math problem. There are certain facts "given." You don't get to argue with the "given" that "the train left Chicago at 4:00 pm traveling at 35 mph." Neither do you get to argue with the "given" that there were panties in your car or that the rape victims ID'd you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdogs
So I am arrested for the red arrow?
Are you purposefully being obtuse now or do you really lack understanding of the situation that I gave?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdogs
Truck impounded, I now have an arrest record, a towing bill and a bond on me? And all you found was my legal pistol?
Didja miss the part where the victims ID'd you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdogs
sucks be in my shoes now doesn't it?
Rapists should expect that there's some chance at least that they'll be caught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdogs
All because to exercise my forth amendment rights afforded me as a law abiding citizen of these United states?
ROFL. Cute game, but silly. Of course this is not to sully your good name just to provide another side of the coin to the one you keep presenting.
Here is where I have issue in the aforementioned scenario... it implies that a rapist is pulled over and busted... But I am saying that as an honest law abiding citizen not engaged in crime I take personal offense to being treated as one.
Just like I feel that as not being a thief I can take a higher level of offense if I am ripped off than a thief getting ripped off by another thief...
I just don't take kindly to being treated as a suspect when I do what I can to live straight and fairly narrow path in this life not victimizing my fellow man nor blatantly thumbing my nose at the written laws.
Brent
 
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